Do you need to show your ARC at immigration checkpoints?

Legal Visa & Residency
21

[quote=“Shanghai Chek”]I was searching for a bit of info. and came across this.

[quote=“joesax”]You’re quite right Sandman. On my re-entry to Taiwan early Monday morning I only had to show my current passport and ARC.[/quote] Why do they ask to see your ARC? It’s just ID for use within Taiwan isn’t it? As you’ve already presented ID in the form of a passport, why would they ask for more? Taiwanese don’t have to show their ID cards when they come through passport control.

Anybody else had to show their ARC? Serious question, gravedigging not intended.[/quote]

I’ve had to show my Taiwan ID card at passport control… so have many other Taiwnanese

22

[quote=“Satellite TV”]I’ve had to show my Taiwan ID card at passport control… so have many other Taiwnanese[/quote] and I know many Taiwanese who’ve never had to show their ID. Were you, or they, asked to show your passport at the same time as the ID? If so, can you explain the rationale behind this policy and also why they ask for it on some occasions but not others. If you’re a whitey with ROC citizenship, I bet they take a long look at yours, your ID that is :smiley:

Visa holder: I’ve lost, had stolen, put in the wash etc my ARC, can I still get into the country with only my passport?
Official: Yes, no problem (maybe after 20 phone calls though)

After
Visa holder: I’ve lost, had stolen, put in the wash etc my ARC, can I still get into the country with only my passport?
Official: No
Visa holder: What? but my home and family are in Taiwan, you can see the resident visa in my passport and check your records.
Official: You have to go away, get all the documents you need (that includes the clean criminal record for the JFRV holders), come back into the country again on a visitor visa and reapply for the resident visa all over again.

A bit much don’t you think. Losing a passport and losing an ARC are not the same thing. If I’m in my own country I can get a replacement passport within a week quite easily. Try getting a replacement ARC when you’re in your own country.

A couple of points (Taiwanese immigration officials may wish to cover their eyes for the remainder of this post as it contains logic which you may have difficulty understanding)-

  1. What is the point of this fucking reentry permit anyway? Why is the presence of a resident visa in the passort not enough? This way you would have to present only one document at port control, thereby removing the very likely possibility of the above fuck up. If there are genuine reasons for persisting with this bloody permit I’d like to know what they are, please :s

  2. Why does anyone married to an ROC citizen have to put up with any of this crap? Give ROC passports to those married to its citizens, yes that’s dual-nationality folks (no sniggering, please), and stop being pathetic xenophobes.

23

I don’t have a resident visa in my passport anymore, which I expect is true of many who have been here a while. And when I did it was stamped ‘canceled’ while it was still hot off the presses. Also, if you lose your ARC (as opposed to it being canceled) then you can apply for a replacement. You do not need to reapply for a resident visa, etc. The question then is what they will do if you lose the ARC while outside of Taiwan? Will you have to enter on visa-free entry, apply for a replacement ARC and then have to leave again? What if you aren’t from a visa-free entry country? Will you be able to apply for a replacement ARC at an overseas representative office or embassy? If not, and you are not eligible for visa-free entry, will you be able to apply for a visa at an overseas representative office or embassy to allow you to enter an apply for a replacement ARC?

Those are the right questions to be asking. If the answer is that you have to get a visa, apply for a replacement ARC and then leave and come back then that is unreasonable. The rule that someone who has not had any violation of law has to leave the country to change visa status or apply for new visas is completely pointless and one I hope would not apply in a case like this.

24

[quote=“Shanghai Chek”][quote=“Satellite TV”]I’ve had to show my Taiwan ID card at passport control… so have many other Taiwnanese[/quote] and I know many Taiwanese who’ve never had to show their ID. Were you, or they, asked to show your passport at the same time as the ID? If so, can you explain the rationale behind this policy and also why they ask for it on some occasions but not others. If you’re a whitey with ROC citizenship, I bet they take a long look at yours, your ID that is :smiley:

.[/quote]

Yes a few people in front of me were asked too. We were asked to produce both passport and ID cards. Random checks most likely.

25

Why? Due to marriage scams in many other countries this practice has been stopped.

You don’t just hand out passports and citizenship willy nilly.

26

[quote=“jlick”]The question then is what they will do if you lose the ARC while outside of Taiwan? Will you have to enter on visa-free entry, apply for a replacement ARC and then have to leave again?[/quote]Yes, this is one of the questions I’m asking, it would be useful to know what’s at stake here.

[quote=“jlick”]I don’t have a resident visa in my passport anymore, which I expect is true of many who have been here a while. And when I did it was stamped ‘canceled’ while it was still hot off the presses.[/quote]Yes, this is the current set up. I’m trying to look at the bigger picture. Why don’t they have a resident visa that doesn’t get ‘cancelled’ immediately, and that allows residence and unlimited entry into the country for a duration stamped on the visa? This visa can then be put in the passport and only one document, a passport, would have to be produced at port control. No need for a reentry permit, the visa functions as both. Not that difficult.

If I’m paying for this thing, I think they have an obligation to provide a decent service, and if they’re going to shift the goal posts yet again it should result in some significant improvement. Putting an ARC and reentry permit together is stupid for reasons already mentioned, as is having a reentry permit.

[quote=“Satellite TV”]You don’t just hand out passports and citizenship willy nilly.[/quote]Heaven forbid, Taiwanese authorities would never do anything willy nilly. Anyway, plenty of countries have had to get to grips with scam marriages and they still give passports, why should Taiwan be any different. I know they’ve suffered a brain drain but it’s not so difficult.

27

Just contact the National Immigration Agency, I am sure they will be able to answer all the questions.

28

For one simple reason, not everyone who has a resident visa has the right to multiple entry. Most Asian workers here whether working as a factory worker or as a domestic helper do not have the right for multiple entry, ie they are required to remain in Taiwan for the length of their contract.

29

So just how many countries do you think hand out passports and citizenship based on marriages nowadays?

30

I got my new ARC today. Obviously, this is a whole new situation. We are not going to change it overnight so . . what to do? First of all, the ARC is now your multiple entry permit and visa. On the backside, it states that multiple entry “may” be had… I wouldn’t read too much into this. It is simply a new style of visa and multiple entry will normally be allowed. It is, as was the old one, cancellable at will. I really doubt that any immigration official is going to take it upon themselves to disallow entry based upon a whim.
All that being the case, what can you do to protect yourself. For me, I will staple my Bio ARC into a plastic bag into my passport just like it was stamped there. When I go abroad, I may lose my passport but, hell, I can’t get back in, in most cases, without the passport anyway. I would also make a copy of the front and back of the ARC, and a copy of the face page and most recent visa in my passport and keep it in my checked baggage. At least if I lose my passport and ARC, I have a place to start. I would also have a copy of all information with a friend or companion here in Taiwan. If all else fails, at least I have duplicate copies other than in my wallet, pocket or carryon. Next, I would also have copies of the payment receipts for the ARC payment. I think everyone who has gotten the new style ARC has noticed that the receipt seems to be a very important document. It has the numbers on it that will assist in finding your records. Of course, copies of other ID stored away in luggage and at home may save you a needless trip abroad.
I really think that Taiwan is trying to make this more convenient. However, all rules can go awry and we just have to try to protect ourselves as best we can as they sort it out. They will. Maybe not to everybodies liking but it will get sorted out. Hang in there.

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[quote=“Satellite TV”]So just how many countries do you think hand out passports and citizenship based on marriages nowadays?[/quote]Most of the civilised ones. Dunno about Australia though.

[quote=“Rascal”]Just contact the National Immigration Agency, I am sure they will be able to answer all the questions.[/quote]Danke schön. But if you’d read the thread properly you’d know that somebody has already done that. I’m interested in what happens in reality aswell as in theory, usually two quite different things in Taiwan.

[quote=“Traveller”]For one simple reason, not everyone who has a resident visa has the right to multiple entry. Most Asian workers here whether working as a factory worker or as a domestic helper do not have the right for multiple entry, ie they are required to remain in Taiwan for the length of their contract.[/quote]Perhaps the authorities should stop colluding with employers, and issue only unlimited entry to all residents regardless of their wretched employment contracts.

Thank you for the thoughtful reply and detailed information Enigma. If they’ll accept photocopies of the lost ARC as valid for entry then there’s no problem (is there not some additional info. on the chip though, which could not be photocopied?) If they don’t, resident visa holders would at least have to leave the country and come back on a visitor visa in order to reapply.

[quote=“Enigma”]When I go abroad, I may lose my passport but, hell, I can’t get back in, in most cases, without the passport anyway.[/quote]You could get an emergency passport from a consulsate/embassy, and with the old system a careful individual such as yourself (and unlike me) would probably have a photocopy of the reentry permit aswell.

The authorities should have computer records regarding a lot of the paperwork you’re suggesting making copies of. I don’t see why these records, when crossreferenced with a valid passport, shouldn’t allow entry. Anyway, your suggestion of making copies is a good one.

[quote=“Enigma”]I really think that Taiwan is trying to make this more convenient.[/quote]It’s possible, I suppose. I can never quite decide whether the the bureaucracy in Taiwan is the result of xenophobia or incompetence. Maybe it’s a bit of both.

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[quote=“Shanghai Chek”][quote=“Satellite TV”]So just how many countries do you think hand out passports and citizenship based on marriages nowadays?[/quote] Most of the civilised ones. Dunno about Australia though.

.[/quote]

Rather than a myth answer why don’t you actually provide us a list.

Not Australia, the UK, NZ, Canada, USA, or most other civilized ones.

We await your reply

33

Which post? The NIA is not the officer sitting behind the desk at the airport.

34

You don’t have to reapply for a lost ARC. You just get a new one.

35

Another curious point about about the new bio-ARC is that my Easy-Card will no longer work while both are in my wallet and, as before, I just slap my wallet on the reader. When I take the Bio-ARC out the Easycard works as before. It appears as though there is a conflict with the MRT reader. Has anybody else had this problem or do I maybe need a thinner wallet (already damned thin) or perhaps a a new Easy Card?

36

It’s funny you mention that. I’ve been having the same problem after getting my new bio-ARC.

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[quote=“SatelliteTV”]So just how many countries do you think hand out passports and citizenship based on marriages nowadays?

Rather than a myth answer why don’t you actually provide us a list.
Not Australia, the UK, NZ, Canada, USA, or most other civilized ones.
We await your reply[/quote]
From the UK Border and Immigration Agency:

BN7 - Naturalisation as a British citizen
B. Requirements for a person applying as the husband, wife or civil partner of a British citizen

  1. The person applying must:
    a. be aged 18 or over;
    b. not be of unsound mind;
    c. be of good character;
    d. have sufficient knowledge of English, Welsh or Scottish Gaelic (see Note 1);e. have a sufficientknowledge about life in the United Kingdom (see Note 1);
    f. be the husband, wife or (from 5 December 2005) the civil partner of a British citizen on the date the application is received; and
    g. meet the residential requirements set out in paragraph 7 below (but see also paragraphs 8 and 9 below).

  2. The residential requirements are that:
    a. the person applying was in the United Kingdom (see Note3) at the beginning of the three-year period that ended on the date the application is received;
    b. on the date the application is received, the applicant’s stay in the United Kingdom is not subject to any time limit under the immigration laws (see Note 5);
    c. in the three-year period, he or she was not outside the United Kingdom for more than 270 days;
    d. in the last 12 months of that three-year period, he or she was not outside the United Kingdom for more than 90 days; and
    e. he or she was not at any time in that three-year period, in the United Kingdom in breach of the immigration laws (see Note 6).

and…

BN18 - Information about dual nationality
The Law in the United Kingdom

In general there is no restriction, in UK law, on a British national being a citizen of another country as well. So, if you get another nationality, you will not lose your British nationality. Similarly, you will not need to give up any other nationality when you become British.

So as I was saying, civilised countries will give you citizenship based on marriage, whilst allowing you to retain your original nationality :smiley:

[quote=“Sandman”]You don’t have to reapply for a lost ARC. You just get a new one.[/quote]If you’re on ROC soil, but on the wrong side of immigration control and without ARC, it has been suggested you will have to leave the country and reapply. If you’re outside the ROC, it has been suggested you will have to reapply for the whole shizzle all over again. I will shortly attempt to extract some kind of definitive answer from Binlang HQ.

[quote=“Enigma”]It appears as though there is a conflict with the MRT reader.[/quote]Secret squirrel business, they’re tracking your every move :sunglasses:

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[quote=“Shanghai Chek”] f. be the husband, wife or (from 5 December 2005) the civil partner of a British citizen on the date the application is received; and
g. meet the residential requirements set out in paragraph 7 below (but see also paragraphs 8 and 9 below).

  1. The residential requirements are that:
    a. the person applying was in the United Kingdom (see Note3) at the beginning of the three-year period that ended on the date the application is received;
    b. on the date the application is received, the applicant’s stay in the United Kingdom is not subject to any time limit under the immigration laws (see Note 5);
    c. in the three-year period, he or she was not outside the United Kingdom for more than 270 days;
    d. in the last 12 months of that three-year period, he or she was not outside the United Kingdom for more than 90 days; and
    e. he or she was not at any time in that three-year period, in the United Kingdom in breach of the immigration laws (see Note 6).
    [/size]
    and…

:[/quote]

It’s not based on marriage as in the past where you did not even need to reside in the country first.

Partners must meet the residential requirements first.

SO citizenship is not handed out just by the virtue of marriage anymore whereas a long time ago being married you would automatlically get citizenship with no residency.

Australia’s citizenship laws are the best as the minumum is 12 months residency but generally 2 years.

39

Sigh… if you want to argue about some chicken and egg business it would be useful if you read the relevant regulations first. There are different residential requirements for naturalisation when you’re not married to a British citizen, and there are also requirements in addition to length of residency. Marriage determines the residential requirements, therefore marriage is the basis. Residential requirements are just an add-on in a vain attempt to prevent sham marriages.

Let me put this back on topic a little. The UK and others allow dual nationality. If the ROC was fair about this it would at least afford the same privileges to citizens of these countries. Instead it insists you bin your original nationality, or face spending the rest of your ROC life as a second class non-citizen and paying (visas, arguments over length of extension etc.) for the privilege. It also now insists that you show an additional document, your ARC, at immigration, which you wouldn’t have to if you held dual nationality. I suppose what I’m saying is that top brass in ROC are nob’eds but we all knew that anyway didn’t we :uhhuh:

40

The ROC allows dual nationality as well, for ROC nationals. :smiley: :smiley:

There are many countries like the UK which refuse to hand out nationality to those that reside there, based on marriage or long term residency. Marriage or residency is not an automatic right to citizenship. Citizenship can also be revoked as well.

There is a residency requirement to citizenship here just like other countries. To be fair, most other countries do not allow dual nationality. I’d rather live in Germany than the UK but alas, they don’t allow dual nationality there.