Do you think Taiwan will become a poor country in the future?

No, what the US didn’t have was the ability to surge production 20x instantly.

I’m with you there, on medicine. That wasn’t how your post read. Now, defense?

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Great. Please show me your statistic or source backing up this statement.
We are pretty busy right now so I will try to dig up those interviews from the domestic mask and manufacturer who said he was being forced to leave the business because of inability to make even a small profit.
But that will take a lot of searching.

I’m interested on hearing interviews from all sides of the spectrum so please present your supporting material.

Anyway the fact that the US may have had a strong manufacturing ability to
produce masks is even better for the argument stating domestic manufacturing is important.

Well, there’s a thing. It looks like you and @Gain are right. If you do some comparisons on the basis of level of development, wages, and rent, Taiwan’s exchange rate with the US$ looks as if it ought to be low 20s.

However if it were actually at that level, it would introduce some bizarre distortions. Food products, for example, would appear 2-3x more expensive than US equivalents (they are already 50-80% higher, on average - I managed to delete my post with example prices for meat and veg from Kruger vs. Carrefour Taiwan). The country would either be flooded with imports, or the government would have to put up massive trade barriers to “protect” local industry. I need to do a bit more research on this.

3M, by itself, had enough domestic capacity to meet precovid us demand for medical use (most demand isn’t medical though)

Yea, some of the guys who spooled up and are trying to sell masks for $4-6… those guys probably don’t have a sustainable business.

And some of that u.s. capacity wasn’t actually producing masks (since it wasn’t that profitable) - it was 3M; on their own, they had bankrolled excess capacity (and stocked material) after sars to be able to respond to national emergencies. Talk about good corporate citizens

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Yeah some things are more expensive in Taiwan, of course.

They’ve been arguing whether to let the NT float.

If you were to try to find a nice place like those in a scenic area in Taiwan they may also cost you millions , especially as they come with the land. There just aren’t any cheap (reasonable ) options anywhere here, I’ve looked. In fact you won’t even find a house with a swimming pool in a scenic spot.

Taiwan is a poor country with some rich people.

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Taiwan is overall a rich country that acts poor.
Example - walkout your front door and wait for one minute :joy::grin:

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Again groceries does not equal food. People here don’t buy groceries and instead go out to eat, which reduces demand for groceries which in turn means the sellers have to charge extra to make a profit.

Food is usually cheap here. Just look at things like Big Mac here vs any other rich place. You can also get nice-ish Chinese/Japanese meals for 100-150. That’s cheap, very cheap.

Ok dude…Yes…You are right.

And no demand for groceries …Yep. I see that.

This lack of demand establishes a new economic paradigm where the price of goods goes up.

Uh huh…Makes sense.

We believe you. :wink::roll_eyes:

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Eating out in Taipei (can’t comment on other cities) isn’t even that cheap anyway. It’s only cheap if you’re eating very oily and unhealthy lunch boxes and street food. Eating high quality food out every day in Taipei is way too costly for most people. And, as many have already said, going to the supermarket to buy high quality ingredients is more expensive in Taipei than it is in London where the average salary is much higher.

Honestly, this idea that Taipei has “low living costs” is such a monumental lie. If I or most experienced reasonably well paid professionals in London relocated to Taipei to work for a Taiwanese company, our quality of life would plummet for the most part. Taipei makes me appreciate that it isn’t so bad in London after all.

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Things are more complicated than just supply and demand price equilibrium. These companies have to turn a profit, and most of their produce is from other countries. The main thing that can drive down the cost here is volume, which would make things like bargaining and transportation more efficient.

All get back to you on defense. But one question to ponder. How many now necessary parts like chips are not made domestically?

How much are we relying on over advanced technology for launching planes from carriers that was done the old mechanical way.
I bet every part of a non digital launching system could be repaired and or jury-rigged in the field.

I’m not sure those high-tech electronic launching systems could

Intel has fabs in AX, MA, NM, and Oregon…

could…? ;D They could jury-rig wagon wheels and wood and canvas airplanes too. Tech moves on. And I would guess steam catapults never get “jury-rigged” - those things impart a tremendous amount of force…

By jury-rig, I meant "can it be repaired or MacGyvered in the heat of battle.
I assume it’s possible and have been done.

I’m really not sure. It will be worth the research and may generate interesting tales.
I’m worried about EMP, hacking or generally easily frying a system that cannot be repaired on site.

Are all the military chips made in the states? Are any made in China?

Because… you’re going to be launching a modern fly by wire plane after an emp fries everything on a carrier?

Depends what you mean by “military chips.” Obviously they use commercial chips made in a variety of places in computers, phones, etc. But we’re moving from can’t, to do we, eh? But yes, we do, and purpose built chips are most definitely not built in China, and go through the DoD trusted foundry program, provides chain of custody for the entire supply chain and goes through only accredited suppliers (the biggie is global foundries).
https://www.dmea.osd.mil/TrustedIC.aspx
https://www.dmea.osd.mil/otherdocs/accreditedsuppliers.pdf

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Well, that makes me feel better.
But, I believe I’ve read somewhere that the military was afraid of backdoors…

Now let me tell you where I’m coming from…
My Dad served in the signal corp at good old Ft. Monmouth in the late fifties.
He worked in Radar for the FAA briefly before going back to Ft. Monmouth as a civilian employ through to the early 80’s in procurement. Then transferring to the signal corp on base as a basic Electronics teacher until retirement.

So, in the seventies, going to Armed Forces Day and seeing all that brand new technology was a tradition.
He’d also get to take home a lot of toys to play with on loan or buy them cheap.
Things like oscilloscopes, frequency generators and whatnot.
They were rugged and easy to fix. Believe it or not, one whack on the case usually fixed the problem. These things were built to last.
He also helped out at the MARS station…
Everything was solid, constructed locally and easily repairable.

Yes, that’s why they have an accredited trusted foundry program. ;D But yeah, there is concerns about COTS products as well.

Sure. And they had a lot less capability, were a lot bigger, heavier, took up more space, and were more expensive.

I’d like more info on the ruggedness of the equipment and how much abuse.
And it’s resistance to EMPs.
How easy is it to fix in the field.

Hell, the old stuff. … You fix it by hitting it. Drop it too hard, parts fall out and you put them back in. Of course, you’d replace the broken parts.
And the Army technical manuals were written to make everything understandable. Ok… I will sleep easy that the US has its own secure supply chain…
This has drifted off topic…
I’m glad at least the US Military is self-sufficient.
I’d like to see the consumer electronics industry back in the US.
A domestic manufacturing base for the US, Taiwan and other countries is important. If you don’t make it or grow it, it is not. Real.