Does the ROC have a future?

Yeah, if you disregard many cases of forced relocation, land theft, attempted Indigenous language eradication, and other forms of colonial violence.

And yes I am aware that many members of these communities will still vote KMT.

Guy

Not a shining record, no. During the later period, the ROC provincial government was trying to right wrongs. Most abuses were perpetrated by local Taiwanese interests, farmers, etc. The KMT does have strong support among those communities today.

Your wumao is showing.

Really? I’m anti-CCP in general, so you got that wrong. The provincial government here finally stabilised arrangements in rural indigenous communities and gave jobs to locals including allowing them to join the police. Co-option? Perhaps. Taiwanese business and farming interests encroached. That’s why the KMT is popular in those rural townships. I understand pork-barrel politics is involved here, too. A tangential comparison: during the American War of Independence many native Americans fought on the British side. They knew that a local victory would mean Americans encroaching on their lands right away, which is exactly what happened. It would have happened in the long run anyway I suppose.
Once again, can I say that I am not an advocate for the ROC, CCP, or any other party, state, or faction. I am interested in whether the ROC as an idea has a future. Most people on this forum seem to think not, but I feel the original ideals of the ROC, which at times informed policy, still have meaning and utility. As one poster said, forgetting about the Three Principles of the People would be like throwing out the baby with the bathwater, and I’m inclined to agree.

Uhh, it was a joke- both at the time and now.

I’m guessing you weren’t here when the ROC banned the display of the ROC flag lest it offend a representative of the PRC:

https://web.archive.org/web/20170317143641/http://dailynews.sina.com/bg/chn/huanqiu/file/20081029/2251391104.html

Wasn’t there also that guy who got arrested for displaying the ROC flag in front of the president’s rally?

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No, I wasn’t. The ROC does stand for reunification with China, that’s why it’s called the Republic of China. I don’t think that is surprising. As for hiding the ROC flag not to offend a commie, that’s ridiculous and only goes to show how far politicinas can veer far from founding principles.

You mean the recent event? Yeah, that was weird. I don’t get that. Talk about bad optics!

President Tsai equates Taiwan with the ROC:

I mean the prosecutor has the sense to drop the charge but it would make the president look really bad for sure. I think there’s another case where cops were told to pretend to fall over so they could arrest protestors for assault on officer.

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Which is largely why the KMT has support among aboriginal communities today. Throughout history it’s a common occurrence for tribes under pressure to appeal to the imperial/metropolitan government against depredations by settlers. One of grievances of the American Revolution was Britain establishing the Proclamation Line forbidding American settlers from moving westward and stealing land from the Indian tribes- similar situations happened in Canada, Australia, South Africa, and famously, with UDI by the white settlers of Rhodesia. It happened with the French in Algeria and Vietnam.
And of course in Taiwan many times in the 18th C. with the “earth-oxen” stone markers dividing lines. (see “Statecraft and Political Economy on the Taiwan Frontier”)

Not because the metropolitan governments were particularly concerned with the indigenous peoples, but because they didn’t want settlers taking land in an area, stirring up the natives, and screaming for support when the natives struck back- lots of bother and expense for the imperial government.

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I think there’s a war strategy, not sure if it’s from sun tzu, but basically always give your enemies a way out even if you could totally cut them off. The idea is if the enemy has a way to retreat they won’t fight as hard, whereas if they have no way to retreat they will fight extra hard, making the battle much harder.

Not sure how it applies to natives but I think most government knows not to push them too hard.

And still you express surprise that some of us who live here, pay taxes here, and have children here find this idea objectionable. :rofl:

Guy

Pardon my ignorance but doesn’t reunification imply United in the past? Which doesn’t seem to be the case with Taiwan.

So I think it’s correct to say the RoC dreams of a takeover of the mainland as originally envisioned.

Well, retaking the mainland is a dream that is probably over. When KMT politicians float the idea of reunification they mean a negotiated reunification. This is unrealistic in my view and objectionable to most in Taiwan–we all know the CCP will not keep it’s word on anything. So, why bother with the ROC at all? Partly because it exists, albeit tenuously, and replacing it is not that easy. Also, it’s existence serves as an alternative political model for China. The CCP might face a rebellion in the future, and who knows the ROC waitng in the wings may get a second wind, or am I just projecting here? And then there’s the founding ideals, which may be re-purposed in any New Model Taiwan.

Outside of the minds of the truly insane. The dream decayed to the bones 40 years ago.

‘Probably’ was a boat that sailed long long ago.

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The ROC exists only because the PRC insists that any steps to delegitimise it will be treated as an act of war. If the PRC collapses, the people of China wouldn’t want the ROC on Taiwan to claim it, and the people of Taiwan would say “good night and good luck”. Other than some ancient KMT types, any dreams of “next year we take back the mainland”, mounting Tiananmen in a fancy uniform and hoisting the ROC flag, are just that- pipe dreams, to coin a phrase.

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A post was split to a new topic: Australia Claims Britain in One Britain Policy

Taiwanese as a subset of Chinese, as it should be. No one outside gives a F about your internal squabbles especially when the name of your region officially is republic of China.

But hey. RoC-ese are part of their own China. So not a problem really.

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The human construct of nationalities is flexible and should be decided by those who possess the nationality. Taiwanese have the right to self determination.

So. No. Not as it should be.

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