Does the US Provoke Wars?

Cable news channels use their “pundits” to establish a conspiracy, and then report on the conspiracy in their news section by replaying those pundits as proof for the validity of the conspiracy. Then politicians will quote these news segments, and the news reports them again.

You are believe that Dore is sincere, but his sincere belief just happens to match the agenda of the CCP. I just have more faith in his intelligence.

Just because something is used as propaganda doesn’t mean it isn’t true.

I think the disillusionment we are seeing with American institutions (and we see it a lot, on a lot of threads, from people of different perspectives), is sincere and justified. The behaviour of cable news channels that you describe applies to Russiagate as well (although that conspiracy got some help in being established, by Steele and by Trump associates (e.g. Flynn) and by Russia (e.g. IRA).

I don’t think anyone will argue that the American government doesn’t lie to their people or the world, regardless of Dems or GOP.

But I’m still pretty firm in the opinion that the US choosing not to intervene in Ukraine or Taiwan is not in the best interests of anyone, except the fortunate elites who are in charge of Russia and China.

He has fundamentally anti-war beliefs, which he has been consistent in promoting. You’re really saying here that anyone with such views is necessarily transmitting CCP propaganda or stupid, or at least that they should shut up about it and not do something like go on cable TV and share their views.

I didn’t think propaganda is a word that would need to be defined in conversations.

I think if you present a fact to influence your audience to agree with you, it isn’t propaganda. It’s when you repeatedly present a lie in ways designed to deceive your audience to believe it as true, that’s when it’s a propaganda.

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Do you really believe that Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, or any future invasion of Taiwan, will only happen if the US provokes it?

I’m saying it’s plain to see what he is saying doesn’t lead to less wars, not even for the US, and there has been plenty of evidence for this in recent history.

Selective presentation of facts can also be propaganda.

I agree, but I don’t think the clip posted by Hua Chunying is misrepresenting Dore.

True, but it certainly helps discredit him. :sweat_smile:

Yes, but most Chinese propaganda is for China’s internal audience. It is absolutely normal for us to find spokespersons from China to make very little sense.

Can you fill in a little about why you’re asking me this? I don’t see how I suggested that.

This is what Jimmy Dore said in that clip, that Russians and the Chinese aren’t the enemies and that the US is provoking wars. So, I’m just clarifying what you believe about what he said, because I don’t believe that you believe this.

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A lot of people don’t see it that way. They want less or no US involvement in foreign wars, and they have some good reasons to adopt that kind of view.

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I haven’t said I agree with him (I don’t). The only belief I’m advancing here is that he is presenting his own authentic views.


That’s the majority of the party though.

That’s debatable.

I believe they have reasons for adopting that kind of view, however, I’d like to know if they believe that the US also provoked Germany and Japan into WW2.

Not sure! No one could say that about Germany, but there is such a line of argument about Japan that pops up sometimes. As economic far-leftists, it would be likely that they’d see it within a capitalist/colonialist framework.

The US supplied The UK and other nations with weapons and had volunteers fighting and flying for the UK prior to Pearl Harbor. By Dore’s logic, it would be seen as provoking Germany.