Doing unpaid work at a buxiban

Work Teaching English in Taiwan
1

Original Title: Looking for some opinions

Recently I was asked by a student’s mother to check his Public school homework. I refused, the school demanded that I do it on my time. Again I refused.

I like this kid, but I feel that if I do it one time for one student every mother in the place will jump in the wagon and demand I do their kid’s as well.

I work 20 hours per week and have 10 unpaid office hours per week. I think I am getting screwed enough already.

Anybody want to throw their 2 cents in?

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[quote=“shifty”]Recently I was asked by a student’s mother to check his Public school homework. I refused, the school demanded that I do it on my time. Again I refused.

I like this kid, but I feel that if I do it one time for one student every mother in the place will jump in the wagon and demand I do their kid’s as well.

I work 20 hours per week and have 10 unpaid office hours per week. I think I am getting screwed enough already.

Anybody want to throw their 2 cents in?[/quote]
If you worked for me, I would ask you to do it, and then pay you exactly for the time it took you to do it. If you were working for $750/hr, and it took you 11 minutes to check his homework, I’d pay you $138 dollars. And then I’d be keeping my eyes open for a teacher that wasn’t so selfish with his time. This is assuming that this is a one-off request. If it were to become a regular duty, and if you were required to do the same for 30 more kids, then of course you should be fairly compensated. But as a favour? Jeez, Louise - don’t be so stingy. :noway:

3

If you had read the post clearly before passing judgment you would have seen I already have 10 unpaid hours of work per week. We are not talking about 11mins here we are talking about hours

This is the forth time this week I have been asked to correct PUBLIC SCHOOL work for a child whose parents can’t even be bothered to even say hello to me after teaching their child for 2 years.

Last month I wrote a speech for this kid and helped him practice it for 3 weeks on my time. No thank you from him or the parents. I took one of my classes skating on my day off and paid for it, again no thank you from the kids or the parents; actually what I got was a pissed off mother from another class demanding to know why I did not take her child skating etc…

At what point does a favor become being taken advantage of?

I have a better idea, how about we go to public school and see if the teachers will correct the homework I give the kids on their days off.

:unamused:

4

[quote=“shifty”]If you had read the post clearly before passing judgment you would have seen I already have 10 unpaid hours of work per week. We are not talking about 11mins here we are talking about hours

This is the forth time this week I have been asked to correct PUBLIC SCHOOL work for a child whose parents can’t even be bothered to even say hello to me after teaching their child for 2 years.

Last month I wrote a speech for this kid and helped him practice it for 3 weeks on my time. No thank you from him or the parents. I took one of my classes skating on my day off and paid for it, again no thank you from the kids or the parents; actually what I got was a pissed off mother from another class demanding to know why I did not take her child skating etc…

At what point does a favor become being taken advantage of?

I have a better idea, how about we go to public school and see if the teachers will correct the homework I give the kids on their days off.

:unamused:[/quote]
They’re not unpaid office hours if you’re required to keep them. There’s a cost, and if you haven’t figured that into your total salary, then you’re being cavalier about the value of your time. On the other hand, if you have figured out what those hours are costing you, and you choose to stick with the job, it’s because you recognize you ARE getting paid for those hours, even if indirectly. If I got a plum job teaching kids for $1200/hr, 8 hours a day, five days a week, but the boss wanted me to work for free for 10 additional hours a week, of course I would figure that into the total. In my mind, I’d be making $960/hour not $1200.

How long does it take you to correct one kid’s work? You’re worried about setting a precedent, I know, but you can always put your foot down later, once you’ve amply demonstrated your goodwill.

As for the speech you wrote for one kid without thanks, that’s too bad. There are a lot of tactless people out there, to be sure. But asking a kid’s English teacher to go over the homework (as a favour, mind you, not as an expected service), is not something out of line or unreasonable. You say this is the “forth” time they’ve asked. You’ve turned them down each and every time? As a school owner, I’d expect a teacher working for me to say yes to reasonable requests, if they are able. If they just can’t be bothered because nobody is paying them for those particular 11 minutes, I’d tell them to go to a school where they can punch in and punch out and get paid exactly for the hours on their time card. Not much of a future in those schools, though.

Act like a disposable employee, you’ll become a disposable employee.

PS The few public school teachers I know do an awful lot of extra-curricular work with the students, including looking at work from their buxibans and anqinbans.

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In my view, though, “office hours” are supposed to be time you devote to the students at your school to reinforce the things you are doing in their classes or at least at their school. It doesn’t mean “checking” homework (read: correcting homework so they will get better grades without learning anything from it) for kids in public school. If a kid has a specific question about something on public school homework, maybe; wholesale checking to me is dishonest (what are we teaching the kids to do, “buy” good grades and good performance on homework by going to someone who knows it better than you?)

Teaching does usually involve a bit of unpaid “just because I care” stuff, and it does hurt when seemingly no one really does care (especially parents; kids that are are thoughtless, but what is the parents’ excuse?) If you aren’t filling your office hours entirely with work you absolutely have to do to prepare your classes, you might consider “just checking it” for the sake of intra-office harmony and keeping your job, consoling yourself with the thought that you’re being paid the same anyway so who cares.

Of course, you could have taken the less-in-hour-face, more Taiwanese way of “refusing without refusing”: “check” the homework but miss a whole bunch of errors. You wouldn’t likely be asked again. :stuck_out_tongue: What your boss would think of that kind of performance is another question, though.

6

I don’t really have much in the way of unpaid office time anymore. I used to, but most of the time it’d be me sitting around bored out of my brain with nothing to do. My boss realised that I had a lot of time with nothing to do, and so, for the past year has been letting me come in just for class time. I usually try to arrive 30 mins early, in case our CTs have any questions (I’m the only foreigner there, we’re small).

Having said all that, for the 2-3 years that I did have unpaid office hours, I’d have jumped at the chance to do anything during that time to keep boredom at bay. Correcting homework, playing with kids, whatever. I don’t know how busy you are during your office hours, but I’d be surprised if you couldn’t find the time to give some extra help to a student.

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When they ask me to help with public school homework, I eat it for them.

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Why would you help him cheat at school?

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Let’s assume, unless told otherwise, that the mother actually wants someone to check and review his completed homework, and not actually do it for him. If it helps him improve, then it’s a good thing, right? I mean, if I can look at a kid’s homework, and determine that he’s consistently forgetting to add the “ing” ending in his present continuous tense sentences, and teach him so that he doesn’t forget, that’s a good thing, no? The teaching doesn’t even have to be done in private time - chances are if one kid is screwing it up, there are others who could stand the refresher as well.

This is an excellent opportunity to set yourself and your school apart from the pack, win good favour from parents (sometimes) and help a kid’s English, all at the same time, for a relatively low time cost.

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If I’m waiting to go home or go to class in my bushiban, and I see my hardworking students (not my advanced ones, the hardworking ones) doing school homework with errors, I will just sneak over to them and put my finger on the mistake. Why? Because I know that those students will not only check their homework again to see what I’m talking about, but that they will also a) remember what the teacher says, b) fix it, and c) be very happy that I suggested they look at it one more time because they want to do well. I’m more than happy to help them even if I don’t get paid because it’s always a pleasure to do so.

What about the ones who don’t try and are a pain in my rump in class? I don’t even look. Why? They don’t pay attention to me anyway, and will pay even less attention if I approach them in my (and their) free time. If I show them the mistake, explain it thoroughly, etc, they will just hear blahblahblah and try to escape as fast as possible. I don’t need that in break time. If I was paid extra prep hours to do it, then sure, I’d consider it, but not for free.

Anyway, my bushiban has never asked me to do it so it isn’t much of an issue.

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[quote=“Maoman”]Let’s assume, unless told otherwise, that the mother actually wants someone to check and review his completed homework, and not actually do it for him. If it helps him improve, then it’s a good thing, right? I mean, if I can look at a kid’s homework, and determine that he’s consistently forgetting to add the “ing” ending in his present continuous tense sentences, and teach him so that he doesn’t forget, that’s a good thing, no? The teaching doesn’t even have to be done in private time - chances are if one kid is screwing it up, there are others who could stand the refresher as well.

This is an excellent opportunity to set yourself and your school apart from the pack, win good favour from parents (sometimes) and help a kid’s English, all at the same time, for a relatively low time cost.[/quote]

I think the OP needs to clarify what the ‘review’ consists of. If the homework has already been marked, then perhaps it is ok. If it hasn’t, then it’s not acceptable for a number of obvious reasons.

If the homework is from your own class, the homework functions partly as feedback to see what the errors as individuals and as a group make so that reviews and error correction can be planned into your own classes. If another teacher removed those errors, then they have removed one of the teacher’s check and balance systems. Let not sabotage the public school English teaching any more than we have to, eh?

The OP is paid to do 10 hours so should make it clear to the boss that this is his prep time, so the more extra admin he does, the less prep he does. At the end of the day, it’s up to the boss how those ten hours are used, within reason.

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I negotiated the ofice hours out of my contract. Now when they ask me to do a placement test I refuse. Students who have become my friends ask me one time only to do something outside of classroom time and they don’t ask again. This is a job people. If you’ve been in Taiwan for more than a cup of coffee, you know that Taiwanese bosses (and parents it appears) will squeeze you dry. I hate HAte HATE Taiwanese bosses. Motherfuckers the lot of them. And it sounds like our Forumosan boss is acclimatizing nicely. Maoman, you know thi is just a disagreement of principles, not personal. Dude, you sound like Mr. Lu. We are employees, not partners, not slaves. You want us to stay late, pay us. You want us to correct Johnny’s PS homework, pay us. You wanna take our picture to use on your advertising, fucking pay us. This all too prevailing attitude that I owe you because you gave me a job and I should be forever humble and grateful that you picked me…well Fark That in the asshole…

If I sound mercenary, it’s because I am.

Maoman may recall how I quit a very profitable job moments after he (yes, he worked for me for a short time) told me they only paid him half his wage. That wasn’t the only reason I quit, but it was in the top 3. If you don’t stick to your principles, then you are a sucker.

Tell your kid’s Mom firmly but respectfully that this is you profession and that your services have a value. Would she want you coming to her hair salon and expecting her to do a quick styling for free?

There…that’s my opinion.

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[quote]We are employees, not partners, not slaves. You want us to stay late, pay us. You want us to correct Johnny’s PS homework, pay us. You wanna take our picture to use on your advertising, fucking pay us. This all too prevailing attitude that I owe you because you gave me a job and I should be forever humble and grateful that you picked me…well Fark That in the asshole…
[/quote]

It sounds like you are angry. Why should you be angry? If you had real control over your life and earning capacity why would you be flipping out? I agree that you never work for anybody but yourself. However, you have to work with people. Sometimes that involves a little give and take. Personally from your little tirade here I’d never give you a job. I mean why? I wouldn’t care if you were an excellent teacher and fucked the boss like a cloven hooved satyr.

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Toe, I agree with you, if the work is expected of you. It seems like it isn’t expected of the OP, just one mother with a favour to ask. Of course one is within one’s rights to say “no” to this one-off request, and of course one should be compensated properly if this were to become a substantial part of one’s duties (ie placement tests for new students). The OP said this was just one mother, therefore I don’t think it places any unreasonable demands on the teacher. If it’s not unreasonable to ask, why would one give up the chance to make someone happy and demonstrate one’s professionalism all at the same time? For me, it’s a simple equation.

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[quote=“Fox”][quote]We are employees, not partners, not slaves. You want us to stay late, pay us. You want us to correct Johnny’s PS homework, pay us. You wanna take our picture to use on your advertising, fucking pay us. This all too prevailing attitude that I owe you because you gave me a job and I should be forever humble and grateful that you picked me…well Fark That in the asshole…
[/quote]

It sounds like you are angry. Why should you be angry? If you had real control over your life and earning capacity why would you be flipping out? I agree that you never work for anybody but yourself. However, you have to work with people. Sometimes that involves a little give and take. Personally from your little tirade here I’d never give you a job. I mean why? I wouldn’t care if you were an excellent teacher and fucked the boss like a cloven hooved satyr.[/quote]

Sorry Fox. Not angry at all. And not a tirade. Just an opinion.

Toe rereads his own post…
:oops:

Well, okay, maybe there is a little anger. But it’s not about my job or any that I’ve had. The DNS works for a right bastard. That’s where the vituperocity is coming from. It’s empathetic vitriole, vicariously spewing out at umosa what I wish I could say to her boss. Nothing to do with me really. I love my job and am very popular with my coworkers, students and managers.

In fact, the only managers I’ve ever felt negatively emotional about have been foreign ones.

Like another poster noted, I too will look over a shoulder or two while on a break (of the hardworking ones) and offer a tidbit, morseful or soupcon of wisdom. I’ll march any student that I see using a Chinese-English dictionary right over to one of our public PCs and introduce them to the wonderful world of synonyms by demonstrating how to use onelook.com. I do care…alot…in most cases, more than the student themselves.

But ask me to check a writing assignment and I draw the line. That is a " private lesson" and I should be compensated for it. No anger. Just business. The first time it happened, I made sure my boss was jiggy with my response and he agreed wholeheartedly.

See…no fucks, no farks, no anger.

Sorry for misconstewing my words Foxy. :wink:

16

The OP also stated he was afraid that other mothers would demand their equal time as well. Especially since Momma 1 prolly bragged about it to collect her face.

Look what happened when he paid for an ice-skating day.

There is a line that has to be drawn. Where it is drawn should be up to the individual, with the support of management. I think a manager should stand behind its professionals. I think you are more likely to do this than post at Taiwanted. I guess I took umbrage with your opinion that such a teacher that drew his on line in your school would be out your door. I want leaders who can confidently (and professionally) say NO!

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If teachers refuse to do any extra work for us I have my economic ninja choke slam them on their contract.

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This is my surprised face. :unamused:

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There’s nothing in the OP’s post or my experience to suggest that his fears had any basis. And the “face” thing? You’re being too cynical. Most parents are reasonable, in my experience. The few that aren’t can be spotted a mile away (like the ice-skating mom in the original post!)

A professional doesn’t nickel and dime his or her clients. I want a teacher who can confidently and professionally say “Yes!” :slight_smile:

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[quote]A professional doesn’t nickel and dime his or her clients. I want a teacher who can confidently and professionally say “Yes!”
_________________[/quote]

That’s why some people are bosses and some are…not.