What would we raffle off?
How about a night out with wolfie’s bar girl training school students?
Hmmm…
Remember that Gus only needs NT$700 a month to keep the basic version. How much do you think the raffle tickets should be for a night out with Wolf’s harem?
[quote=“wolf_reinhold”]Hmmm…
Remember that Gus only needs NT$700 a month to keep the basic version[/quote]
Well, this isn’t quite right. The whole reason why this discussion was started was because I was reporting to the moderators that our traffic load is pushing the cost of the website well BEYOND the basic version.
If the cost of hosting the website stayed at the basic version, I wouldn’t be talking about Conuaries and other such things.
We are now running at 120% of capacity. I project that introducing forum e-mail alerts and the print edition will bump up our capacity requirement to 200% of the basic version. However, according to the Hosting PLan table at DreamHost, a 20 million conuary level put us between Plan 3 (US$40) and Plan 4 (80). Hosting costs today (Plan 2) equal US 20. if you add in an extra 10 million conuaries a month, this cost goes up to US$ 70 per month.
Wolf, as you’ve noted, 70 to 80 bucks a month isn’t going to break the bank. But it did take me by surprise. When our forums we’re shutdown because we overwhelmed the last webhost we used, I was under the impression that 10 million conuaries (“whatever those are,” I thought at the time) would be “more than enough.” Our last host cost US$ 100 for the entire year.
Also, people have told me that they’d be happy to pitch in. I really appreciate this. When Cranky posted about the gift certificates, I thought it was the perfect idea – becuase then you know for certain that you are contributing directly to the hosting costs of this website.
I’m not hurting for this (right now 
). This is something we can talk about in the Forumosa gig next month.
I’d rather Paypal you if you don’t mind Gus. I’m waiting on my US acct right now so I can set up a new acct.
This has been hashed over before, but [quote]I project that introducing forum e-mail alerts and the print edition will bump up our capacity requirement to 200% of the basic version. [/quote] begs the question: Is it needed?
I don’t even know what a “print edition” could be; that being the case, I won’t miss not having it.
I don’t mind throwing into a tossed hat, but we are back at the earlier debate that, as I recall, favored a forum that didn’t have bells and whistles. We want to communicate, we don’t need cute titles and neon lettering or a print edition.
Or am I reading this wrong and regardless of introducing bells and whistles that we can do well without, the system is getting more expensive? Can we cut down on our conuaries? Should we use fewer vowels? Shorter sentences with less punctuation?
Anyhow, my basic question is this: Gus, why are you doing this at all?
Is it for a class or Phd or something? Is it purely charity? Is it just your hobby?
In Australia, when we want to raise money, we just play cow pat lotto. Easy fix. Draw 100, 1 metre x 1 metre squares on some grass. Next, everyone, or syndicates buy a square for $NT1,000 a pop. That 1 grand pays for a bbq and free drinks for the day. Then everyone sits around drinking piss waiting for the cow to shit in their square. Winner takes half the pot. Losers clean up the shit. Forumosa take the rest of the pot, and everyone goes home rotten. End result, winners all round. Contact me for more details. Amos.
I like the email alerts. This way I can read the messages that are posted at the forums/topics I’m watching as they come in.
The print edition will be for the classifieds and should bring more traffic, hopefully people who will contribute to the discusssions.
Good idea, but maybe it’s not so easy to find 100 square metres of grass and a cow in Taiwan. I suggest modifying it to “betel nut spit” lotto. Divide a section of road or footpath into squares and the first square to cop a mouthful of betel nut juice claims the prize 
Collect receipts for the lottery. Just take them out of those bins in 7-Elevens that are for some stupid charity. We need it more! 
As a member of the Games Club team at the Pub Quiz, I would like to donate my share of the prize money to this cause…
If I don’t support my addictions, who will?
What happened to the Segue merchandise you could buy? Was there really some? I remember a picture of a Segue clock. I’d buy a Forumosa clock to stick above my computer if it says “I waste too much time time on Forumosa”.
Brian
Been meaning to get back to this, Wolf. These are good questions.
The print edition is a print out of the latest postings from the classifieds forums (buy/sell, housing, language exchange, etc.) Its sole purpose is to promote the website – so it wouldn’t be of use to you anyway (btw, how DID you hear about ORIENTED way back when? I’ll have to shoot that person 
)
I agree that communication doesn’t need bells and whistles. However, its been made clear to me that regular visitors to these forums read (communicate) as much for kicks (entertainment value) as for information. But, belieev it or not, the bells and whistles often have some utility buried in there.
What’s surprises me is when something which even I figure to be fluff takes a life of its own, creating its own “forumosa significance”. For example: Guanxi. I installed it because, well, it was really easy to. Most of it operates ‘outside’ the basic structure of this system (it doesn’t affect any of the core files and tables). At the start, I saw marginal value in it – what good are these Karma points if Admins can create and destroy them at will. Could anyone value them?
Before I knew it, Karma was dubbed “Guanxi” and was being used BY members to reward OTHER members for reading (read that: using) the website (ImanOU’s easter egg hunt-type contest kicked this trend off).
One day, to ‘punish’ a member, I wiped out their Karma amount. I did this instead of banning them, which I was originally inclined to do. Wiping out this erstwhile valueless Karma enraged that member, who went on a rampage sabotaging this person’s own posts!
But what really blew me away was the idea that people may be more willing to do something for the website if we offer to give them more Guanxi (like Jeff’s G$ FAQ, which was submitted within hours of my request). And then the F/X shop only gave Guanxi even more meaning.
Is any of THIS “needed”? No, it is not. I agree with you (btw, can I assume you won’t mind if I drain your unappreciated G$ accounts and re-distribute via the G$ Lottery )
I think this is more the issue than whether the bells and whistles are actually expensive trinkets. Even if we ran a plain vanilla forum, if we are successful in reaching more and more people, we’ll encounter this capacity problem.
Incidentally, the Print Edition will be printed and reproduced by the friendly people at MTI communications. At their cost, no less! It will be distributed around Taipei City (and maybe other parts of Taiwan, too) by volunteers. If it succeeds in raising the interest of other English speakers, wouldn’t that good? Shouldn’t we want that??
The last two: charity and hobby.
When Chris Hsu and I started ORIENTED, we did NOT know what it would ultimately be like. We were inspired largely by two New York websites – Asian Avenue and the New York Times’ Web Crossing-based forums. But ORIENTED was not built around the forums (unlike Segue, where I have re-focused the website as a traditional Taiwanese BBS).
[Quick aside: the proposal behind ORIENTED was a way for us to remake CAPT (www.capt.org.tw). At the time, both of us were on the CAPT Exec Committee. Both of us firmly beleived that the best way to reach CAPT members and help socialize them into Taiwan was via a new fangled thing (back then) called a website. Also, both Chris and I were wide-eyed community volunteer-types from ‘back East’. I was a regular volunteer of New York Cares, who was surprised to learn about Chris’s own involvement in DC Cares. We wanted CAPT to be a way for new members to meet one another while helping their fellow Taipei resident. Boy, that was a LONG time ago!]
What fueled our ‘vision’ (is it really a vision if it was always hazy to begin with?) was this idea: we wanted to build something that would have been useful for us when WE arrived in Taiwan. Chris’ experience differs from mine, becuase she has relatives in Taiwan. I knew no one when I got here (not that I’m complaining – imho, Taiwan is hardly a hardship posting, even if you don’t speak a word of the local language). We both happened to arrive in Taiwan around the same time (1993-94) – a time that I’m realizing was when living in Taiwan actually started to get ‘easier’. Nevertheless, our website would help F.O.B.s get a house, a job, a significant other, a dog, a vet, directions to a decent hamburger, or what have you.
Building this website has been a hobby for me. I am quick to point out to friends though that “this” hobby has had a tremendous impact on my life. For example, I would have never learned about the Asia campus of the University of Chicago had they not used ORIENTED to promote their Taipei information session. It is nearly two years ago to the day when I attended that evemt and Ria Sugita asked me how I heard about it. I replied, “you called me” – she didn’t know I was connected to ORIENTED when we first met. Studying in Singapore these past two years was fantastic – more than I expected. One of my fears about going back to the US for school was how I would ‘come back’ to Asia, and when. Instead, I never left and feel I’m far ahead (in terms of contacts and experiences) where I would have been if I took my chances on a transfer from the States.
What you didn’t ask was “where does all this talk of cost overruns and donations come from?”
Recently, I’ve been sounding alarms to the team at forumosa.com: I’ve just graduated and I got the job I wanted… so I’ve been saying that the attention I’ve given to this website (however minimal some may have felt it was ) is really going to take a dive. Soon. I joke that if you still see me regularly on Forumosa starting next month, then things are NOT going well for me at work.
Over the past few months, we’ve created an administrator team, several User groups, and added more moderators. We’ve tried out various rating systems and switched web hosts – not once – twice. This is so that our web community will continue to grow, and so regular members can help mold this “Asian outpost on the Internet” into the kind of community MOST of us want, long after I stop tweaking the code.
But I gotta tell you, the extra costs related to our conuary overruns are a drag. They really are. BigBiz was only costing me 100 bucks for the whole year. Now, I’m looking at 10x that. I don’t mean to be whiny, but that’s a big jump! Sure, I have a new job, but I haven’t struck it rich. Hardly. And with the new gig, I’m probably going to be using Forumosa less than before!
OK, last unasked question: What if no one chips in? What happens then?
I don’t know. I’ll have to see how the summer goes. It’s not like Forumosa is going to close shop or anything. I’ll just have to get more creative – and eat out less. Or maybe I could get less creative – and sell out. How much longer will you be posting on Forumosa, Wolfie, if I pitched the whole kit and kaboodle to the Taipei Times? 
Has anyone actually bought any of that stuff? I haven’t. and isn’t there a link to it in my signature?
I need to update those items with the new “U in the middle of Formosa” logo anyway – so I don’t think you should buy any.
braxtonhicks has a lead on cheaper t-shirts – although only the good Lord knows how I’d pay that (anyoe want to sponsor 200 t-shirts?)
I was bouncing around an idea or two for a new slogan for Forumosa.com: “I waste too much time time on Forumosa” could be one. Another is “Have you been living in Taiwan too long?” 
[quote=“ImaniOU”]As a member of the Games Club team at the Pub Quiz, I would like to donate my share of the prize money to this cause…
[/quote]
That’s an excellent idea, ImaniOU. Actually, it’s exactly the amount I was thinking of handing over to Gus in the next mod meeting anyway.
Gus: when’s the next meeting?
Iris
I am not sure, but who sends you off to sleep?..
I have never touched the “points.” They are not real; why would I mind them being gone?
What is Gus’ reason for this site? [quote]charity and hobby[/quote]
Not to be difficult, but I would not contribute money to someone’s hobby, even if I participate in it. Pulling the plug on this site would not be a catastrophe. Sure, it is interesting at times, but I lived without it fine before.
Having said that, I’d rather see it around than not, but ultimately it is your deal. Maybe you should sell it. I am positive that someone would buy it, and maybe pay handsomely for it.
What you mean, I guess, is how many nanoseconds it would take the TT to block me from posting after they signed the check for ownership. But in fact, the TT would only buy it to close it. Then everyone would be shifting to one of the other forums.
On a personal note, and don’t get all misty on me, I have enjoyed being on this site – making friends and getting panned online. Going to one of the real-life meetings of posters would really be a drag. I don’t want to put faces to the people that I have come to know online. Let the words do the talking.
I hope you solve your problems with the site; many people rely on this as an outlet. Closing the site would be like everyone’s favorite pub going under the wrecking ball.
Interesting post Gus.
What are these user goups anyway?
Brian
Thus far, I’ve set up User Groups to have their own private forums.
The Creative Braintrust are members who have offered ideas in the past and are willing to give critical feedback. You could think of them as our BETA testers
The Distribution Team has their own forum to raise issues about the Print Edition – if this effort becomes a reality
The Fun and Games group has their own forum so they can plan or discuss whatever it is they would discuss.
This Thursday might be a good time to slip a bit of cash to Gus if you’ve been meaning to do so. Of course you shouldn’t feel obligated in any way - come and have some beers with us anyhow, but I know some of you were privately wondering about making donations - well now’s your chance. See you on at Q Bar on Thursday! 
Gus- would it be helpful if those of us with websites contributed space/usage? I’m not sure if that’s technically feasible to have something split across multiple hosts/domains, but if it is, I’m sure there are those of us with our own websites that are not even using 1% of MB capacity nor “conuaries”
Also, in terms of commercial advertising potential, how many monthly pageviews does this site get? I know some people don’t like web advertising, but there are some groups that do non-offensive nationally-recognized brands and you’d only have to deal with one group. Might be an easy solution.