Drinking High Mountain Water

What are your thoughts on this? If I’m hiking in a remote enough area, and the water appears uncontaminated, I’ve taken lately to drinking without filtering or treating.
Biggest danger is giardia or a cryptosporidium infection, I think, but I understand that giardia at least is not that common here.

I was looking at buying either the Steripen, or one of the Sawyer Squeeze models, but my continnued good health after drinking straight from the source has made me not bother yet :smiley:.

[quote=“Nuit”]What are your thoughts on this? If I’m hiking in a remote enough area, and the water appears uncontaminated, I’ve taken lately to drinking without filtering or treating.
Biggest danger is giardia or a cryptosporidium infection, I think, but I understand that giardia at least is not that common here.

I was looking at buying either the Steripen, or one of the Sawyer Squeeze models, but my continnued good health after drinking straight from the source has made me not bother yet :smiley:.[/quote]

You could use iodine. Taste like shit but extremely effective.

Another danger is an animal carcass in the water upstream.

How high in the mountains do you mean? 2000m? 3000m? I’d say above 3000 from a ground spring or waterfall from a cliff would be fine.

What BigJohn said. You might get away with it, but it’s still risky even if it looks pristine. I’d go for something like this:

lifesaversystems.com/

You can order them online, although they ship from the UK.

Given up on iodine. I like water to taste like water.
I’m talking 2000m+, or lower if I know it’s just inaccessible mountain above.

The “animal carcass in the water” idea, sure if there’s one up there above you, then you’ll be swallowing a few microbes.
But what is the risk profile? I think the risk is over-exaggerated, and that high altitude stream water in wilderness areas is much cleaner than is commonly perceived.

[quote=“Nuit”]Given up on iodine. I like water to taste like water.
I’m talking 2000m+, or lower if I know it’s just inaccessible mountain above.

The “animal carcass in the water” idea, sure if there’s one up there above you, then you’ll be swallowing a few microbes.
But what is the risk profile? I think the risk is over-exaggerated, and that high altitude stream water in wilderness areas is much cleaner than is commonly perceived.[/quote]

Top survivalists say boil or treat if u can. If u want to do whatever you want regardless, you don’t need
our advice.
But be warned, “a few microbes” can mess with u if u have bad luck.

My biggest concern would be if there was any sort of village or even a house above.

Another concern that is far worse than a dead animal is an old mine with significant heavy metals floating downstream. I think the only way a dead animal would affect water would be if there was very little flow/water in the creek.

Another thing to consider is that most of the lighter weight water solutions aren’t 100% against everything. Water filters don’t get the smallest microbes while iodine/bleach/aquamira don’t filter out heavy metals.

If I had to I would drink mountain water but I wouldn’t plan no filtration/treatment trips.

Sure, I wouldn’t even consider it if there was any known settlement or human activity above. That would be madness.
I’m curious about anecdotal evidence re drinking untreated & sickness, or am I the only one doing this? Upto about 20l so far, with no ill effects. I’ve had giardia before in China, but I didn’t knowingly drink untreated water there. The illness wasn’t nice, but I was able to get somewhere safe to recover. I’m thinking the chance of getting it from high mountain water here is extremely low.

Also I read somewhere that slow water should be considered safer than fast running water, as giardia cysts mostly sink in the former. And after heavy rain is not good, as that tends to have washed surface soil particles into the flow.

There is absolutely no way to estimate the risk. There are too many factors involved. Why are you even considering gambling with your health when you can buy a modern, portable filter, that will take out absolutely everything nasty, for NT$6000 or less?

Portable = ‘something that can be carried’. The more I can leave at home, the better. And gathering evidence would give some indication as to the degree of risk, no?
I don’t see that I’m gambling with my long-term health, unless there’s some pathogen out there that I’m unaware of.

This dude claims to have been drinking untreated water for 23 years.
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/sipping_water_drinking_untreated_backcountry_water.html#.VBmLCVfiuU4

If you want anecdotal evidence, then I have spent many a week up in the mountains drinking from streams and have never had a problem. Usually I use iodine to help purify the water, although I understand you don’t want to do this. Heavy metals are unlikely to be a issue as mining is generally a foothill/mid-level activity where accessibility is a factor when placing mines, and if you are drinking from high mountain streams you should be above the elevation of even the highest of them.
However, just because I haven’t had issues, it doesn’t mean you won’t. Luck and chance play a part and being in the wilderness is all about trying to minimize the risks. One time I drank from a stream I found a dear carcass amid some branches about half a click up-stream. Not a nice feeling. Luckily I had no ill efects.

This thread reminded me I need to buy a filter for my next trip to The Philippines. My land is in the middle of nowhere, so getting fresh water is a right pain. There is a river, but all the nearby farmers spray illegal pesticides with abandon, and most likely the town upriver discharges raw sewage or other pollutants. Bought one of these:

sawyer.com/products/sawyer-point … embly-kit/

They have all sorts of stuff for backpacking too.

Nuit: I get that you don’t want to carry too much, but it seems to me a water filter is as essential as a compass and a map, especially if you find yourself in trouble and have to survive on monkey piss or something.

[quote=“finley”]Bought one of these:

sawyer.com/products/sawyer-point … embly-kit/

They have all sorts of stuff for backpacking too.[/quote]

They do. I was looking at their kits as a possible replacement option, e.g. the Sawyer Mini.
It’s not that I’m opposed to carrying a lightweight filter, I just ran out of purifcation tablets, and this situation has just evolved this year.
Anyhow, I’m off to gather more anecdotal evidence today & overnight, hopefully I’ll be back here tomorrow :bow:.

I’m not even sure why you asked the question since you already seem to have a strong opinion.

You are at a far greater giardia risk because of human to human contact due to poor hygiene but that still doesn’t mean that I would not treat water just to lighten the load. It’s unlikely that you would catch anything but when you do it’s a showstopper. I had a friend airlifted out of the Sierra’s. I’m pretty sure it was due to poor hygiene instead of untreated water but that’s how hard some of this stuff hits.

I think it’s pretty hard to know where every dwelling is in Taiwan. There are random people everywhere it seems. In addition to find some high mountain stagnant water that drains downhill. For example this beautiful lake fed a flowing stream.

Not that I think a high-altitude mountain stream is necessarily a vector, but drinking unfiltered water is a great way to get hookworms or other intestinal parasites. This is why tea was invented, and why Chinese medicine considers cold water to be dangerous.

Why play with fire like that dude? There’s so many reasons why you shouldn’t do it, why bother trying to find one reason to do it? You could die if you’re unassisted and far enough away from civilization.

[quote=“kungfuken”]Not that I think a high-altitude mountain stream is necessarily a vector, but drinking unfiltered water is a great way to get hookworms or other intestinal parasites. This is why tea was invented, and why Chinese medicine considers cold water to be dangerous.

Why play with fire like that dude? There’s so many reasons why you shouldn’t do it, why bother trying to find one reason to do it? You could die if you’re unassisted and far enough away from civilization.[/quote]

I’ve been drinking untreated water above 2000 meters in Taiwan for many years and never had any problems. Usually I do this when cycling because I figure if I do get sick, it will be after I have descended. I sometimes do this when hiking in less well known areas although I try to drink higher up and will use a filter or iodine if I am more than a day a way from the trailhead. Lack of water of any kind can be a big problem in Taiwan’s high mountains especially in the center and south.

I’m curious how high-altitude somehow prevents microbial growth. Or is it just that the water isn’t stagnant? Because a lot of people die from drinking contaminated water, and as a species over time we’ve probably died more to bad water than many diseases or predators. Why would you deliberately risk infecting yourself with parasites or diseases though, just because you will hopefully be home before the symptoms manifest? That seems like needlessly reckless behaviour, even if it turns out the bodies you drank from were clean.

I’m back, +3 more anecdotal litres :slight_smile:.

It’s the reduction in risk that’s the key here. On Friday I took water from a National Park stream at 900m. The stream’s watershed extends above to a ridge at 2400m. No human activity. The map shows the stream source at about 1300m, so most rain falling into the watershed above that altitude is not surface flow, but sinks into the bedrock. It then percolates downwards, before emerging and running at surface for only a few hundred metres to the point where I captured it.

So I’d argue that microbial growth is unlikely under these conditions. if there is a dead animal wedged above you in the stream, that’s just highly darn unlucky, and not indicative of reckless behaviour. I’m not posturing here though, and am very open to serious discussion as to why the above approach might be flawed.

The point, surely, is that if you just want to have a drink in some unknown area, you don’t have time to bugger about doing geological surveys. You’re just thirsty. You might also be in a location where the water quality is obviously dubious. Unless you travel the same routes all the time and know exactly what you’re drinking, I’d still say a small filter is worth its weight in gold.

Aborigines who live in mountain villages drink mountain water, no boiling, no iodine, nothing.

In fact, the running water in their taps comes straight from this mountain water. My inlaws have a tiny little filter, about the size of a thumb, attached to their faucet. Its not actually a “filter” per say, its a little thing that catches dirt and debris (which is a filter, yes, but not the kind you usually think of). Always drink that water straight, no problems.

I have done it several times, normally in the mountain. Last time I can recall, it was in Nepal, most likely lower than Jomsom. Or pehaps it was as low as in Pokara. The thing is that a German guy told me that he also used to do the same… until he got a parasit that grew big as :banana: and had to share with him all the meals. This doesn’t mean that it will necessarily happen to you, but it can happen, as well as the other poisoning other people point out here.

I like to drink natural water because it’s a way to enjoy the Earth, the nature, the wild. But I guess that sometimes it can :banana: you up a bit. As long as it’s only a bit, I’m OK with it.