DSLR buying advice

Ok, I totally suck at using cameras, I can take pictures, but I don’t understand the camera lingo, despite being very adept at computers. It’s like it’s own littler world with strange acronyms and what not.

My “super-zoom” camera broke a while back and I’m not going to say that I was always impressed with the pictures it took. I’m now looking at saving up some cash and getting a DSLR, as they’re meant to be much better.

I don’t have a huge budget, under NT$20k so the two it seems to boil down to, as I want a camera with built in image stabilization, is the Olympus E-520 and the Pentax K-m. The Olympus seems to be the better of the two on paper and from all the reviews I’ve read. I’ve found it online here for NT$19k with the standard lens. The Pentax K-m can be had for as little as NT$16k with the standard lens.

I’m mostly going to use the camera for taking pictures of boring computers and bits that goes with computers. I might of course use it for the odd casual stuff as well.
Any other suggestions, advice? And of the two, which is the better one to go for?

I know there are a few very keen photographers here that ought to have some input to a total noob when it comes to this stuff :smiley:

Just buy one of the major brands. See which one you like the most in handling.
Personally I go with Nikon (I find the Canon menu’s too bulky). Other choices I guess are Canon, Pentax, Olympus, Sony.
The Nikon D5000, D3000 look interesting for starters.
dpreview.com/news/0907/09073 … nd3000.asp
They do “video” too (with some wobble effect as if you make films with a cellphone when panning too fast).

If you want something more “funny” I’d try the new micro four thirds of Olympus.
Supported by:
* Panasonic Lumix DMC-G1 (October 2008)
* Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH1 (April 2009)
* Olympus PEN E-P1 (July 2009)
dpreview.com/news/0906/09061 … pusep1.asp

More expensive though.

Well, none of those are within my budget, hence why I asked specifically about the two models listed.
I have a very good camcorder already, so I have no need to be able to shoot video with a DSLR.

I’m sure either one will do you fine. You can’t really go wrong in today’s market. Just go to the store and see which one feels better in your hand and don’t worry too much about specs.

The Oly looks good, but I’m not sure how easy it is to find lenses, accessories etc. Pentax stuff is easy to find anywhere, especially good quality used lenses.

I mentioned Canon and Nikon on Twitter, but didn’t realize they were out of the budget. So ignore that.

Really, these days there’s not a lot of difference between any of the brands. For a first-time buyer, it pretty much comes down to which feels best in your hands. Go to a camera store, try them both out, scroll through the menus etc and see which you prefer.

If you need any assistance or anything at the stores, let me know and I’ll be happy to meet you there one day.

[quote=“TheLostSwede”]Well, none of those are within my budget, hence why I asked specifically about the two models listed.
I have a very good camcorder already, so I have no need to be able to shoot video with a DSLR.[/quote]
Oh sorry, but I actually thought its in your budget, I can buy the D5000 (Kit) at 24000 TWD now, the D3000 is a smaller sister (should be cheaper). The Olympus E-520 you mention has a online price of 27000 TWD (cheapest I could find).
The E-520 was replaced by the E-620 in February (one year after the E-520) and seems only a few thousands more expensive than the E-520.

Side by Side E-520 vs E-620:
dpreview.com/reviews/compare … 0&show=all

  • The high ISO performance of the E-620 seems much better, maximum ISO of the E-520 is 1600
    (I don’t want to miss ISO 3200 on my Nikon D90).
  • The E-620 is slightly lighter

I would never buy either the E-620 or E-520 cause it takes the annoying “TV Format” aspect ratio of photos (4:3).

The Pentax K-M you mention (K2000 in North America) is doing 3:2 like other professional cameras, supports SD cards (which works with all recent laptops) instead of a xD Picture card which would need an adapter or special reader in most cases.

Those are all side by side including my suggestion for you (they are all in your budget):
dpreview.com/reviews/compare … 0&show=all

The D5000 has a nice tilt shift screen, my sister in law is happy with it (if that counts).
And undoubtedly the best ISO performance of all cameras you mention (CMOS with 2.7 MP/cm²).

I’d go for a Nikon cause you can buy Nikon or Sigma lenses so if you upgrade to something more professional you could still use those lenses. I don’t think Olympus has a big foot in the real professional sector yet. But I really really love their cameras (such as the new E-P1).

Also make your choice dependent on the choice of interchangeable lenses.
Not sure what is out there for Olympus.

Ok, let’s see…

  1. I have no idea what the difference between a 3:2 and a 4:3 camera is, yes I understand that the pictures comes out looking different, but most of the stuff I take will be cropped and put online, so I don’t think that matters for my needs.

  2. From what I’ve seen, Nikon and Canon lenses are much more expensive than other brands, as they have the image stabilizer built into the lenses. When you’re on a very limited budget, this is not a good thing.

  3. The Nikon D3000 might be an option, depending on cost here and with my concern above proven wrong.

  4. The Pentax K-m/K2000 doesn’t seem to be fantastic from what I’ve read and has a fair few issues, but I don’t know how big of a deal those issues would be for me, as I have no prior experience in DSLR or even SLR cameras.

  5. I don’t think the E-620 replaced the E-520, it’s targeting different users. The E-520 is listed for just under NT$19k here. I guess that’s an imported model, but Olympus offers world wide warranty so it shouldn’t be an issue. Oh and it uses Compact Flash, but you can chose to use the shitty xD cards as well if you’re stupid enough, but yeah, SD cards I have aplenty, but no CF cards at the moment…

I’ve read a couple of very good reviews of the E-520 and I was also looking at the E-420, but that doesn’t seem to have any kind of image stabilization which I’m worried about. I work as an IT journalist and end up taking a lot of pictures indoors of various computer products as I mentioned in the first post and the lighting is far from ideal most of the time. This is why I want something with good shake reduction/image stabilization and also because I know I’m not a great photographer.

I can’t really stretch over NT$20k, as we’re about to move in a month and a half. I’ve also considered various other options, but I think I’m going to have to invest in a flash gun as soon as I have some spare cash and that won’t work with most other types of cameras, or they end up being as expensive as an entry level DSLR.

While on the topic, what kind of lens(es) do I need? The main thing I need to be able to do is take good close-up but not macro shoots of shiny gadgets and nothing much bigger than a large notebook. I can’t figure the lens stuff out at all as there’s way too much choice. I’d like to limit the lens purchase to no more than two if must be.

Sorry for been a demanding, bitching noob, but I really have a limited budget at the moment, but I still need to be able to take high quality pictures which seems to be something of a dilemma.

[quote=“TheLostSwede”]Ok, let’s see…

  1. I have no idea what the difference between a 3:2 and a 4:3 camera is, yes I understand that the pictures comes out looking different, but most of the stuff I take will be cropped and put online, so I don’t think that matters for my needs.
    [/quote]4:3 limits your composition. But sure you can always crop. Anyways it seems its no issue for you.

[quote=“TheLostSwede”]
2. From what I’ve seen, Nikon and Canon lenses are much more expensive than other brands, as they have the image stabilizer built into the lenses. When you’re on a very limited budget, this is not a good thing.
[/quote]- I don’t think image stabilization really helps. If people move you still have motion blur

  • Use a tripod or monopod if you can
  • If you shot inside a lot, get a faster lens such as the Sigma F/1.4 30mm which works on Nikon/Canon (not in your budget though).
    So you should better save another 10K to have a fast lens. :slight_smile:
    You can also buy used or second hand fast lenses (especially for Nikon there’s a huge choice).
    High ISO could be a solution. In this case: Olympus E-620, Pentax K-7 or Nikon D5000 are the only choices of what we talk here.
    This is at ISO 1600, handheld, F/1.4 lens, shutter 1/125, no stabilization needed, no flash:

Don’t make your choice based on stabilization :slight_smile:

[quote=“TheLostSwede”]Ok, let’s see…
3. The Nikon D3000 might be an option, depending on cost here and with my concern above proven wrong.
[/quote]I don’t know if its get-able in Taiwan yet. :frowning:

[quote=“TheLostSwede”]Ok, let’s see…
4. The Pentax K-m/K2000 doesn’t seem to be fantastic from what I’ve read and has a fair few issues, but I don’t know how big of a deal those issues would be for me, as I have no prior experience in DSLR or even SLR cameras.
[/quote]Well its a CMOS sensor and it does high ISO 3200.
But I think it would suck at this high ISO cause the pixel density is 4.0 MP/cm²
That means they put a hell a lot of a pixels on a very small sensor.

[quote=“TheLostSwede”]Ok, let’s see…
5. I don’t think the E-620 replaced the E-520, it’s targeting different users. The E-520 is listed for just under NT$19k here. I guess that’s an imported model, but Olympus offers world wide warranty so it shouldn’t be an issue. Oh and it uses Compact Flash, but you can chose to use the shitty xD cards as well if you’re stupid enough, but yeah, SD cards I have aplenty, but no CF cards at the moment…[/quote]Try at NOVA, at least in Hsinchu you can expect 10-20% lower from the “online price”.
Also the item you list there on Monday has a crap lens with it. I’d at least get a nice 18-200 (out of budget I know) travel lens or a prime lens. :slight_smile:

[quote=“TheLostSwede”]Ok, let’s see…
I’ve read a couple of very good reviews of the E-520 and I was also looking at the E-420, but that doesn’t seem to have any kind of image stabilization which I’m worried about. I work as an IT journalist and end up taking a lot of pictures indoors of various computer products as I mentioned in the first post and the lighting is far from ideal most of the time. This is why I want something with good shake reduction/image stabilization and also because I know I’m not a great photographer.
[/quote]In that case maybe you should look into getting a used camera.
I have a old Nikon D80 if you want to buy it. Its in great condition.
No idea what its still worth. But you’d also have to pick a lens for it.

[quote=“TheLostSwede”]I can’t really stretch over NT$20k, as we’re about to move in a month and a half. I’ve also considered various other options, but I think I’m going to have to invest in a flash gun as soon as I have some spare cash and that won’t work with most other types of cameras, or they end up being as expensive as an entry level DSLR.
[/quote]Did you consider financing it?

[quote=“TheLostSwede”]While on the topic, what kind of lens(es) do I need? The main thing I need to be able to do is take good close-up but not macro shoots of shiny gadgets and nothing much bigger than a large notebook. I can’t figure the lens stuff out at all as there’s way too much choice. I’d like to limit the lens purchase to no more than two if must be.
[/quote]Really seems to me you need a fast prime lens. Those are fixed focal length. But are great for night shots and indoor as the aperture opens “wide”. Means you can use lower ISO (less noise).

Some examples (all without flash or stabilization of some sort, Nikon D80 + Sigma F/1.4 30mm).
(The D5000 has actually a better sensor then the D80):

Exposure: 0.002 sec (1/500)
Aperture: f/1.4
ISO Speed: 800

http://www.flickr.com/photo.gne?id=2597165479

Exposure: 0.025 sec (1/40)
Aperture: f/1.6
ISO Speed: 1600

http://www.flickr.com/photo.gne?id=2094030752

Exposure: 0.01 sec (1/100)
Aperture: f/2.5
ISO Speed: 800

http://www.flickr.com/photo.gne?id=2620814161

[quote=“TheLostSwede”]Sorry for been a demanding, bitching noob, but I really have a limited budget at the moment, but I still need to be able to take high quality pictures which seems to be something of a dilemma.
[/quote]It’s ok, it seems you want to know where to put your money :slight_smile:

Well, I don’t have to buy new, but what can I get second hand?
Your D80 sounds like a nice camera despite it’s age, but I think even that is outside of my budget looking at what they go for second hand.
I guess with DSLR’s there’s a lot more to it than point and shoots, even the super-zoom ones.
I know I have a stupidly small budget for this, but as of right now, I can’t stretch any further and I don’t have any option to put anything on financing.
I guess this gear doesn’t devolve in price as much as other things, as you can keep re-using the lenses, so they practically don’t lose any value.
As I said, I’m a total noob when it comes to this, but I was hoping that there was an easy to use solution for me that would produce good quality pictures, but alas, that seems like it was just a pipe dream…

[quote=“cfimages”]The Oly looks good, but I’m not sure how easy it is to find lenses, accessories etc. Pentax stuff is easy to find anywhere, especially good quality used lenses.

I mentioned Canon and Nikon on Twitter, but didn’t realize they were out of the budget. So ignore that.

Really, these days there’s not a lot of difference between any of the brands. [color=#FF0000]For a first-time buyer, it pretty much comes down to which feels best in your hands.[/color] Go to a camera store, try them both out, scroll through the menus etc and see which you prefer.

If you need any assistance or anything at the stores, let me know and I’ll be happy to meet you there one day.[/quote]
You guys both take awesome pictures, so I’d accept almost anything you had to say about cameras. I was going for an entry level Canon or Nikon (as all the people I know who take really good pictures see to use one of the two), but recently the camera shops have been trying to flog the Sony at me.
What I know about camera’s is very limited, but they seem pretty decent to me.

Had a look at these two:
Sony Alpha DSLR-A700
Sony Alpha DSLR-A380

They seemed decent to me, and they were also more affordable with more accesories than the Canon or Nikon’s on offer (that I saw).
But a mate of mine had one of those old model Sony digital cameras that looked like an SLR camera but the lense couldn’t be changed, although it had a telescopic lense. His pictures always seemed crappy and out of focus, but then again, that could just have been his fault…

Any thoughts? Good or bad buy?

It doesn’t help because image stabilization is not about moving subjects but shake caused by the person holding the camera, including when you take a picture of something static (like buildings).

[quote=“bismarck”]
You guys both take awesome pictures, so I’d accept almost anything you had to say about cameras. I was going for an entry level Canon or Nikon (as all the people I know who take really good pictures see to use one of the two), but recently the camera shops have been trying to flog the Sony at me.
What I know about camera’s is very limited, but they seem pretty decent to me.

Had a look at these two:
Sony Alpha DSLR-A700
Sony Alpha DSLR-A380

They seemed decent to me, and they were also more affordable with more accesories than the Canon or Nikon’s on offer (that I saw).
But a mate of mine had one of those old model Sony digital cameras that looked like an SLR camera but the lense couldn’t be changed, although it had a telescopic lense. His pictures always seemed crappy and out of focus, but then again, that could just have been his fault…

Any thoughts? Good or bad buy?[/quote]

I think Belgian Pie has a Sony or two, so he’d be the man to ask. Their DSLRs are great cameras from all I’ve heard. Sony make the sensors for a number of other brands (including Nikon I believe but not Canon) so you know it’s going to be high quality.

Your mates camera probably had crappy pics because of him. No offense to him, but bad focusing etc is usually a user error.

hello everyone… i need some help!
is there a pricelist of cameras in taiwan?

Check here: eprice.com.tw/

One of my other mates asked him if he needs glasses (seriously, not sarcastically), and he was pissed off!
I’m starting to come round to the idea of a Sony. The ones I saw looked nice and I liked the feel of them…
Time to save.

dpreview has a review of the A380 online. Go straight to conclusions if you don’t want to read the entire review.

Thanks for that. Interesting read…

How about something like the Fujifilm FinePix S100FS rather than a DSLR or is this a bad call?

The reason I wanted the images stabilizer is because most of the time, I won’t be able to use a tripod/monopod. Take Computex as an example, not really possible to set up a bunch of gear at every booth, as you’d never get done and you’d take up way too much space. I expect the image stabilizer to help under these circumstances, no?

I might be able to extend my budget a little bit it seems, so what’s the best purchase for NT$25k or below?

The following DSLR are within your budget, if you consider street prices and assuming they are not much higher in Taiwan than e.g. compared to HK:

Canon EOS1000D with IS 18-55mm
Nikon D60 with VR 18-55mm
Nikon D3000 with VR 18-55mm
Pentax K-m/K2000 with 18-55mm
Sony A230 with 18-55mm
Sony A330 with 18-55mm

You may even be able to stretch it to a Canon 450D + IS 18-55mm with some bargaining skills but Nikon is said to have the better 18-55mm lens, in which case I would consider the D60 or newer D3000.

Ok, I’ve come up with a slightly different list

Olympus E-520
Sony Alpha A330
Canon EOS 450D/500D depending on bundle

I still think the E-520 looks like the nicest camera I can get for the money after having read 3-4 reviews of each of the other models.
The Sony is apparently not so comfortable in the hand and the Canon requires more expensive lenses from what I’ve gathered.
The Olympus doesn’t seem to have any major flaws apart from the 4/3’s format that some don’t seem to like.
The Nikon D3000 just doesn’t seem to be able to compete with these in terms of what I’m looking for.
The Pentax K-m isn’t really in the running and the K200D is getting too old.
The cheap Nikon’s also lack built in Auto Focus for many lenses which I think is going to be a problem for me.

Edit: Turns out that apart from the standard lenses, the Olympus ones aren’t that cheap either…

I guess my problem is that I go around this the same way as when I’m doing reviews of computer stuff, very much on the spec’s, but it seems like that’s not everything when it comes to cameras…