[quote=“spook”]
A better rhetorical question then might be: E-voting – the end of the Democratic Party?[/quote]
And hence, the end of democracy since there are no other parties with any clout in the US, right? So there you go, no need for elections at all.
One Party. The Party. One way. The way. What do you call that?
Fred’s Way.
Alien,
How about a political landscape without Party’s? Aren’t political Parties, after all, just middle-men between the people and their government?
your humble admirer,
spook
But who forms the government? A loosely conglomerated group of individuals loosely associated into a non-party type of, em…party?
Otherwise a dictatorship would ensure the absence of parties. His ‘party’ could just be known as a collective of like-minded individuals forming a support mechanism.
Or something.
[quote=“Alien”][quote=“spook”]
A better rhetorical question then might be: E-voting – the end of the Democratic Party?[/quote]
And hence, the end of democracy since there are no other parties with any clout in the US, right? So there you go, no need for elections at all.
One Party. The Party. One way. The way. What do you call that?[/quote]
Huh? You don’t need multiple parties for a democracy to work. You only need voting.
But you have to vote for something. And that something has to be a part of something else; an idea, a group, dare I say it, a party. A party forms the framework for likeminded individuals to come together and put forward the ideas they have and to be a focal point for the implementation of those ideas provided the electorate agrees. You can’t just ‘vote’ you have to vote for something.
E-voting, I presume?
TM, great site! I’ve bookmarked it.
This one looks good:
Family Values Party - This ultra-conservative, theocratic party seems to exist mainly to promote the frequent federal candidacies of party founder Tom Wells. Wells explained that God spoke directly to him in his bedroom on December 25, 1994 at 2:00 a.m. and “commanded him to start” the FVP. To be exact, Wells said God specifically told him to encourage people to stop paying taxes until the public funding of abortion ends. The FVP political platform is largely derived from religious fundamentalism, including many specific citations to Bible passages. This “party” remains largely an alter-ego of Wells – who always seems to be running as a write-in candidate for President or Congress (or both).
I disagree that parties are unnecessary, especially when one HUGE one takes control while others disseminate.
And we see things like this start happening:
Mass Nationalist Movements
Anti-socialism
Anti-working class
Anti-liberalism
Expansionist
Reactionary Policies on:
(check)Welfare
(check) Social rights
(check) The Family
(not yet?) Women
(check) Law & Order
Prepared to used the most extreme violence
Completely subordinate to big business
Is that not vaguely reminiscent of something?
I wouldn’t be so sure of the security of e-finance either. A recent survey revealed 83 percent of UK companies have been victims of computer crimes including fraud, theft of data and denial of service attacks.
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/3513063.stm
Hey, I don’t have any conspiracy theories. I just feel that e-voting is too insecure and unreliable, but as Fred pointed out even the old-fashioned hanging chads that landed Dubya in office can be unreliable as well.
MT,
Why have you got that 12 year old girl giggling at us while we’re trying to have a serious discussion?
:?
The main problem with e-voting is that some paper should be able to be traced if necessary, and none is. How do we know the system is reliable when there’s so much evidence to the contrary?
And Fred, I’m not worried about your vote not being tabulated correctly as there won’t even BE ONE! Ha!
“Parties” are so pre-21st century. In the future, we’ll have forums instead – conglomerations of like-minded individuals with the power finally to govern themselves in real time free of the constraint of intermediaries with their own agendas.
Ummm… the fear raised is that if the Democratic party were to disolve, that would be the end of democracy in the US. I merely stated that democracy does not require political parties to exist. Voting is what democracies need to exist. Of course you have to vote on something… but to do so does not require political parties.
We’ve already reached the point where we don’t need political parties, legislatures, representatives – intermediaries of any sort to govern in our stead – we just haven’t realized it yet.
All we need are enter keys and an attitude problem in this age of electronic omnipresence.
[quote]Any touch-screen voting machines used in Missouri elections must also churn out a paper ballot so voters can review them in the booth, says Secretary of State Matt Blunt in an announcement slated to go out today.
Blunt’s edict is aimed at local election authorities who want to replace their punch-card ballots with the machines. But in St. Louis County, where authorities are considering a switch, the top election official says the mandate could prove costly.
However, Blunt says that’s not the issue. “This requirement will enable voters to review their ballot before it is cast to ensure that it was marked as intended,” he said in a statement made available Thursday to the Post-Dispatch.
The paper ballots also would serve as a backup if a machine fails or a recount is needed, he said.[/quote]
St. Louis Today
[quote=“Alien”][quote]A few manufacturers are developing new products to answer the demand for secure voting machines.
The problem, however, is that most state election officials are not demanding this extra security. [/quote][/quote]
Let me get this right, Alien… are you saying that the free market is actually delivering the kind of secure voting systems that the country needs. And yet the bureaucracy is reacting rather too slowly and inadequately to the same problem?
Is this the new liberal manifesto? If so, sign me up!
:raspberry: to Diebold
time to bump this thread up, I’m concerned that this US election will lack transparency. Florida, where the Electoral Office or something has prevented printouts of votes. I haven’t done much reading on this issue, so if anyone is up to date please post.
:bravo:
[quote=“EEzzee!”]:raspberry: to Diebold
time to bump this thread up, I’m concerned that this US election will lack transparency. Florida, where the Electoral Office or something has prevented printouts of votes. I haven’t done much reading on this issue, so if anyone is up to date please post.[/quote]
Not Diebold this time (instead, Election Systems and Software of Omaha, Neb), but this does concern Florida again. If this NYT article is the one you refer to above, then sorry for the repeat. Others may find it interesting anyway.
What’s up with Florida?
[url=http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/28/politics/campaign/28vote.final.html?hp]Lost Record '02 Florida Vote Raises '04 Concern
Almost all the electronic records from the first widespread use of touch-screen voting in Miami-Dade County have been lost, stoking concerns that the machines are unreliable as the presidential election draws near.
The records disappeared after two computer system crashes last year, county elections officials said, leaving no audit trail for the 2002 gubernatorial primary. A citizens group uncovered the loss this month after requesting all audit data from that election…[/url]
[quote=“EEzzee!”]:raspberry: to Diebold
time to bump this thread up, I’m concerned that this US election will lack transparency. Florida, where the Electoral Office or something has prevented printouts of votes. I haven’t done much reading on this issue, so if anyone is up to date please post.
:bravo:[/quote]
You can google a lot of info on Black Box Voting.
Here’s an interesting article from USA Today in June:
[quote]California has begun to get its act together. An advisory panel told secretary of state Kevin Shelley to ban the use of 16,000 Diebold machines in four counties. (Shelley might order a statewide ban until all the machines’ problems are solved.) He’s also considering civil and criminal charges against the company for installing uncertified systems.
More importantly, the state senate passed a bipartisan bill that requires all e-voting machines to create a paper trail