Early reports: 20 hurt in Kaohsiung rioting

Yes, it must be very difficult for your lot to think outside the old box of repression and violence, as is now demonstrated daily on Taiwan’s streets. In actuality, despite the occasional ramblings of the odd TI idiot, the DPP is not pursuing violent anti-democratic means to maintain their power. That’s the continued domain of your lot.

Perhaps in time the pan blues will manage to come around to the principles of democracy, but thus far there is little evidence of that.

Here’s a hint, get rid of your martial law period leaders first! Once you’ve managed to wash away some of the blood from the white terror days, come back to the table and let’s all discuss Taiwan’s peaceful political future.

HG

Martial law era leaders, like Lee Teng Hui? lol… I believe he is no longer a part of the KMT, but that just shifts the problem of washing him away to the greens! Huang Guang Chen, you are hilarious.

I can not agree more. 5 days of peacefull demonstration by the Red’s, and 2 days of disturbance by the Greens.
Consumption of Kaoliang and Bin Lang is much higher among Green party members (from inside source) and they follow the crowd as they lost their identity . Greenies… your scum and shame of Taiwanese society. That is what I wanted to say…

Let us see how the Kaoshung run will be… sensation guaranteed as the incident from last night was a clear warning for the Red party … Hope everything remains calm, but it will be idle I guess…

So 228 and white terror is justification for CSB to steal and lie?
228 and white terror is justification for Kaohsiung CSB supporters to physically attack Depose-CSB supporters?

The KMT is not oppressing anyone or assassinating anyone these days. The DPP are in power now and an ex-DPP leader is trying to dispose-CSB. How is this KMT fault?

If you guys would have let the KMT imprison SMT for life, perhaps the most recent incident of dispose-CSB would have never have happened. It is not the KMT fault for SMT release. Once again another DPP blunder.

When will you guys learn the KMT was right most of the time. If left to their own devices, the DPP will mold Taiwan into the Philippines.

CSB is even taking one from the Blue playbook of getting dual nationality. His daughter is already in NYC getting ready to flee. I hope when they have to mingle with the oversea Chinese community to get on with their day to day lives that it doesn’t become an identity overload for them.

What, he is planning to move here! There goes the neighborhood. :cry:

[quote=“ac_dropout”]So 228 and white terror is justification for CSB to steal and lie?
228 and white terror is justification for Kaohsiung CSB supporters to physically attack Depose-CSB supporters?[/quote]

Stole what? Lied about what. State your evidence or shut the fuck up and accept the ballot.

I suppose the reds are one of the lost DPP factions then? :unamused:

[quote=“ac_dropout”]If you guys would have let the KMT imprison SMT for life, perhaps the most recent incident of dispose-CSB would have never have happened. It is not the KMT fault for SMT release. Once again another DPP blunder.

When will you guys learn the KMT was right most of the time. If left to their own devices, the DPP will mold Taiwan into the Philippines.[/quote]

Telling, very telling indeed. Unfortunately your own political immaturity is such that you really cannot see how telling statements like the above are. It is actually a very serious concern, but mercifully you’re too busy dodging the draft to be in a position to do anything but blather here on these boards.

Yes, we all understand rather well why you would have these assumptions. :laughing:

HG

Of source a pan-Green supporter in HK is a credit to the cause.

Former pan-green supporter ac, but more generally a believer that democracy is a positive thing for taiwan.

HG

And pan-blue/red supporters who have never even been to Taiwan are a credit to their cause.

Think

before

open

mouth.

Former pan-green supporter ac, but more generally a believer that democracy is a positive thing for taiwan.

HG[/quote]
I’m not such a blind supporter of democracy as a end all of all political process. Your soujourn in HK is the pragamtic reality that people live with and act upon. Smart people move to green pastures independent of politics.

To be quite honest Taiwan’s democracy only show signs of hindering progress and not promoting it.

[quote=“ac_dropout”]
I’m not such a blind supporter of democracy as a end all of all political process. Your soujourn in HK is the pragamtic reality that people live with and act upon. Smart people move to green pastures independent of politics.

To be quite honest Taiwan’s democracy only show signs of hindering progress and not promoting it.[/quote]

what a remarkable opinion! it may be the majority one among the swelling ranks of internet shills on here, but not in taiwan.

Former pan-green supporter ac, but more generally a believer that democracy is a positive thing for taiwan.

HG[/quote]
I’m not such a blind supporter of democracy as a end all of all political process. Your soujourn in HK is the pragamtic reality that people live with and act upon. Smart people move to green pastures independent of politics.

To be quite honest Taiwan’s democracy only show signs of hindering progress and not promoting it.[/quote]

Rather frank of you ac, but commendable nonetheless. If you’d rather stick with the good old ways of routinely arresting, detaining, torturing and murdering political opposition, then why bother with Taiwan? Aside from the odd trogolodyte, the people of Taiwan have opted to go with deomocracy. Mind you, you can get all the old ways and more in your beloved China. And as you correctly mention, Sun Yat-sen was the father of both Chinas. But do remember to be just a little careful about what you say to whom. :laughing:

HG

mein gott yer man AC doth talk a lot of arse…

OK so some rough tough kaohsiungers threw a few punches…this does not in and of itself reflect on Taiwanese democracy or a-bian’s own culpability in alleged scandals…feelings are running high so the less savory elements of Taiwanese society want to get involved; no great surprise there and no need for you china lackeys to start casting aspersions…

There are such things as legitimate political opposition and nutcases. Both CSB and SMT were, and still are, nutcases. They should have thrown away the key with those two.

I guess of suspension of civil liberty is kind of harsh these days on Taiwan. I guess the modern evolution is to sue political opposition to submission.

A bit reminiscent of Hotel Rwanda?

Ac, we now know what you want, however, the people of Taiwan have decided that’s not the vision they share. You are going to have to come up with something more appealing than the white terror of yore for most people you know.

As for SMT, he’s your nutcase these days. Those are not disaffected DPP supporters rallying around him, they’re the KMT and assorted pan-blue nutjobs I’m afraid. You’ll no doubt have much in common with their likewise anti-democratic sentiment.

You know, as an alternative to China where I do fear your rather forthright style will meet you some bother, you could try Singapore, it’s a far more benign form of fascism they have there. Certainly sits well with your views.

But if you prefer your nutjobs in red panties, well . . .

[quote]People First Party Kaohsiung City Councilor Wang Ling-jiao gives a thumbs down yesterday to show her support for deposing President Chen Shui-bian. She holds a stuffed animal wearing red underwear with an anti-Chen symbol as she stands in front of a large board displaying other types of anti-Chen underwear at the Kaohsiung City Council. Wang urged more people to support her idea to call for Taipei Mayor Ma Ying-jeou to wear red anti-Chen underwear.
PHOTO: CNA[/quote]

:roflmao:

HG

Not when you equate supporters of CSB only with green and disown everybody else. lol. But I’m sure pan-Blue appreciate your generosity to allocate them the 82% of Taiwan who are anti-Bian.

I think Singapore is a model for how a small island country should be run.
PFP are KMT rejects. Blues, like me, don’t accept them either.

Amcham is always very vocal in praise of Taiwan’s democracy and furthermore that it is of major economic importance. Stable countries are just better for investment. And yes, Taiwan is stable and certainly a million times more than China where property rights have little legitimacy under the law.

But there are major problems as the piece below explains. However, the problem is a LACK of democracy and transparency. In other words, the stronger Taiwan’s democratic process and institutions are, the more stable it will be, the more efficient its government, and the better its business environment. A return to authoritarian rule would only worsen the innefficiencies.

[quote]Commentary: Democracy Makes an Economic Difference
Taiwan is rightfully proud of its election successes over the past decade, especially the rise of a multiparty system and a peaceful change of government. Yet much remains to be done before Taiwan can attain what could be termed a mature democracy. In particular, look at the current state of democratic institutional development in the Legislative Yuan (LY) and its impact on the economy.

Since 1992 when a major reorganization created the LY as we now know it, the lawmaking body has fought a losing battle for respect. Melees on the floor of that institution have made Taiwan (in)famous around the world for having one of the most disreputable congresses anywhere, and coverage of those fisticuffs on prime-time international TV news has detracted from whatever admiration for Taiwan’s democratic achievements was developing around the world. The evolution of proper decorum on the floor and in committees is an essential step for public respect, but even more serious problems loom out of sight of the cameras.

Students of the U.S. Congress know that the committee system in the Senate and House of Representatives is the heart of their operational activity. But in Taiwan, the committee system virtually guarantees inefficiency and ineffectiveness. Each three-year legislative term is divided into six sessions, and legislators typically switch to a different committee each session. And instead of a single chairman, the Taiwan system has three conveners, usually each from a different party, who take turns as chair. A new set of conveners is chosen each session. This process allows more legislators to gain “face” by holding a leadership title, but it prevents the development of experienced and sustained committee leadership. The chairs rarely stay in position long enough to gain expertise, nor do they develop the respect of their peers for knowledgeable conduct of committee affairs. Without a seniority system, LY members have little incentive to build expertise in any key standing committee. This inevitably lessens the quality of legislation, and that in turn has direct impact on the health of the economy and the quality of the investment environment.

The effectiveness of the committees is further diminished by the practice of holding frequent “interparty negotiations” on bills before they move to the LY floor. This ad hoc institution, which routinely overrides or circumvents action by the committees, means that virtually all major legislative decisions are made behind closed doors by senior party representatives – contravening the fundamental democratic principles of transparency and accountability. If a compromise bill is agreed upon, it typically goes straight to the LY floor for automatic passage without discussion or roll-call vote. Legislators who might be subject to criticism for having conflicts of interest are thus shielded from public scrutiny.

What is astounding to an outside observer is that Taiwan’s voters have not been more vocal in expressing opposition to this procedure. Is this black-box approach to legislation so successfully veiled that most people are ignorant of what is being done in the name of the democratic process? Whatever the case, the absence of lawmaking transparency leads directly to a loss of public trust – and investor trust as well. If not corrected, this form of political subterfuge could wreak havoc on Taiwan’s efforts to consolidate its democracy. It certainly undermines claims that Taiwan offers an ideal government model for other budding democracies to emulate.

Is the situation hopeless? No. A positive development in recent years has been the rise of effective non-government organizations as legislative watchdogs. The Taipei Society and the Taipei chapter of the anti-corruption group Transparency International are good examples of institutions monitoring the excesses and errors of government organs. Think tanks are also becoming more non-partisan and are developing more sophisticated public information programs. Promoting transparency is a first step toward strengthening Taiwan’s nascent democratic institutions.

A host of essential bills bearing on economic issues – including energy policy, national health-insurance reform, telecom-media convergence, corporate bankruptcy/reorganization, and executive-branch restructuring – are now in the pipeline for legislative attention. Swift action, unimpeded by excessive partisan squabbling, will be needed to deal with them – especially when Taiwan’s competitors in the region are working feverishly to restructure their tax systems, regulatory bodies, and investment incentives, all to Taiwan’s competitive disadvantage. Taiwan’s people can vote directly for their legislators; investors vote with their feet. The past six years of a log-jammed LY have not built investor confidence in Taiwan’s near-term future.

Taiwan has been remarkably successful in the past, despite its diplomatic isolation, because of its strong economy. It has mattered to the rest of the world because it has been a powerful economic player with direct relevance to and integration with the global marketplace. But the speed and quality of Taiwan’s democratic consolidation are directly linked to the sustainability of its economic strength. Beyond the benefits of political maturity and stability, bolstering Taiwan’s democratic institutions is also the way to ensure that Taiwan remains a vital force in the global economic arena.

[/quote]

Exactly Mucha Man! And to add an exclamation mark to your post, and of course to highlight just what nasty little economic and social vanadals these are out in the street . . .

[quote]Stocks soar more than 3% on easing political concerns
By Amber Chung
Tuesday, Sep 19, 2006,Page 1
The stock market saw its sharpest spike in more than two years yesterday, as the negative impact of the nation’s political uncertainty began to ease, according to market watchers.

The benchmark TAIEX gained 201.39 points, or 3.01 percent, to 6,882.48 on turnover of NT$110.75 billion (US$3.36 billion) yesterday, marking its biggest one-day rise since Aug. 19, 2004.
[/quote]

HG