The typical scenario is where two foreign parents send their kid to international schools. Sometimes that parents didn’t pay attention to their kid’s Chinese because they planned to go back home before long but ended up staying. In other cases, it is because they don’t speak Chinese either, don’t think it is important, and denigrate it and Taiwan in front of their children. This can also happen with Taiwanese parent who don’t speak Mandarin at home (they exist).
From what I have seen, the international schools do a terrible job teachingthe written language. It is painfully obvious that their students have never read a book in Chinese and cannot handle complicated texts. They are far behind their peers in the public schools.
I tend to think the native speaker parent has more responsibility here. Anthony Blinken grew up in France where he studied at a private French school. He speaks French very well and I am confident that he is entirely literate in the language.
People don’t have the same standards and expectations for Chinese. It’s a shame. It’s not really that hard.
I’m glad to hear that your son is thriving in Australia. An increasing number of Americans with Taiwanese heritage do want to come back to Taiwan. They have many more options if they have good Chinese. Of course the vast majority in the States have no desire to do so.
But since your son is a native speaker, it should be relatively easy for him to bring his written Chinese up to a far higher level of literacy than I will ever attain even after decades of study.
Ah, I see. Well you can’t really hold them to the same standard as a child who was born and raised in Taiwan.
I remember the juniors reading the Chinese version of Franz Kafka’s “The Metamorphosis” for their Chinese class. That’s no easy read.
Is it possible that the kids you met didn’t actually grow up in Taiwan, but are Taiwanese Americans who spent some of their childhood in the US? You mentioned Taiwanese parents who spoke English at home. That’s usually a sign that they’re Taiwanese Americans, or at least studied abroad or worked in the West. We had plenty of those kids at the school, and their Chinese wasn’t as good. They were usually placed in the CSL classes.
Yup he didn’t learn English until he spent a year in Australia at 7 years old. When he got there he told me they spoke a funny language there lol.
Also he had no financial pressures so his undergrad degree in Commerce and International Relations and his JD Law degree were paid up front. So graduating with no student debt was really good. He also got on the Deans list in his last year of Law School and was headhunted by Commonwealth Bank to work in financial regulatory law as legal counsel. Nobody goes to jail though. Now he works for a law firm that does work for CBA and other firms in the money game. Casino’s and sports books are part of that.
Good thing is I get free legal advice for my sports business lol
Funny sometimes people ask my son is he a criminal defense attorney. The reply is that a lawyer with his briefcase can steal more than a 100 men with guns.
He was seconded by his firm to work on the Crown Casino case and the judge lambasted the regulators for failing to do their jobs properly. The law firms provided good legal counsel it seems lol
Funny thing is after he undergrad degree I suggested as his grades were good to do a JD law degree. His reply was he didn’t want to work for a law firm due to long hours as a junior lawyer. He loves what he does now though.
They should be reading one of the long Ming or Qing novels like Dream of the Red Chamber. Or a modern novel by Li Ang or Pai Hsien-yong. Or the Annals of the Grand Historian.
Is it possible that the kids you met didn’t actually grow up in Taiwan, but are Taiwanese Americans who spent some of their childhood in the US? You mentioned Taiwanese parents who spoke English at home. That’s usually a sign that they’re Taiwanese Americans, or at least studied abroad or worked in the West. We had plenty of those kids at the school, and their Chinese wasn’t as good. They were usually placed in the CSL classes.
Basically I don’t know. Most of them I met when they interviewed for the college I went to. None of them were able to discuss a book they had read in Chinese after claiming to be literate. They were also unable to discuss any political or social issue in Taiwan in any depth in either English or Mandarin. Their complete ignorance of Taiwan was amazing.
I did know of one case where the mother was from the states but the child was born in Taiwan. She divorced the Taiwanese father and sent her kid to an international school. Neither of them can speak more than kitchen table Mandarin and both are illiterate.
There are many, many individual circumstances it is really hard to generalize.
This woman grew up in Taiwan and went to public school. Her parents are Europeans with little Chinese. Her Mandarin is native speaker and she is completely literate. Note that after changes to the immigration law she and others like her can now stay in Taiwan.
Linda Arrigo grew up in Taiwan and was educated at the American school. Her Mandarin is extremely good–most native speakers would not notice that she is a foreigner on the phone.
Very impressive. He should come back to Taiwan and start a firm unless he is addicted to litigating. He could do very well here if he ever wanted to come back. Hell, he could probably eventually pass the Taiwan bar if he put his mind to it. It’s really hard though (10% pass rate). Partners at major law firms here do extremely well even by Australian and US standards.
Yes, they obviously read 紅樓夢. My point was that they also read translated international novels in addition to your typical Chinese works, as well as modern novels by renowned Hong Kong and Taiwanese authors.
Ok there is a difference between being literate (knowing how to read) and being able to discuss literary works. I am literate in English but I can’t discuss “The Metamorphosis” with you in English, even though I read it in my high school English Lit class. The kids you spoke to were probably just more into Math or STEM.
Most were yes. And we talked about STEM stuff. But our interview instructions also ask us to try to find out whether the students are able to discuss society and the humanities.
I just took a quick look at the TAS curriculum. It’s a lot better than I expected. The first two levels of honors advanced ‘Mandarin’ literature have a very good selection of modern texts. It does not appear that they read any historical literature until the third level, which is only offered if there is enough student interest and enrollment.
While this is encouraging and impressive, it is clear than not all students take honors advanced ‘Mandarin’ literature.
Side grump: it’s good that Mandarin is identified as being just one of the Sinitic languages. But referring to the written language as ‘Mandarin’ is a distressing trend popping up everywhere these days.
It is not at all obvious to me that they read 紅樓夢 or anything like it at TAS. A few advanced students read modern Taiwanese novels. Afraid I didn’t see any Hong Kong writers make the list
Yup he isn’t interested in being a partner in a law firm. He is happy raising two kids he has plenty of time to spend time with. Doesn’t want to work 60 - 70 hours a week end up divorced which happens to a lot of law firm partners.
He told me when he was interviewed by a senior partner that the conversation came around to being a partner and my son said not interested lol
My son says they always offer that but reality for him is that it’s not worth it.
He likes that normal 40 hour work week that lets him have a very good income yet have time for family. He will probably go back to a financial institution as working where he is now he gets better experience to jump back.
He’s not interested in living in Taiwan for a career either. We swapped places lol.
They are also read in the IB courses, which I’m sure the majority of the students take. IB is more popular than AP. The course description of that class says “the study of a wide range of genres and rigorous literary analysis… both oral and written critiques, comparative commentaries, essays…”, but specific examples are not given.
All courses at KAS (where I worked) were IB courses, and the only high school Chinese options were IB Chinese Language and Literature (for the native students) and IB Chinese (for the foreign/non-native students). Most students were in the native class, where 紅樓夢 and other classical texts were read.
Keep in mind that these students are also taking IB English Language and Literature at the same time, which is required whether you take native or non-native Chinese. Are foreign students studying in local schools in Taiwan taking that?
Smart choice. In addition to the importance of having time for family, we are also coming to understand the physical and mental health consequences of the prolonged stress that this unnatural way of working produces.
And it makes perfect sense to me that people who grew up in Taiwan might not want to or end up living in Taiwan. People often want to experience something different from the society they grew up in. That was certainly true for me.
Huh? 40-hour work weeks allow for family time? If you take away the time you spend on sleeping, commuting to work, getting ready for work, getting ready for bed, errands, cooking, cleaning, and other household chores, then there is not much time left for family.
I can never go back to working full 40-hour weeks.
This is all very impressive. TAS claims to have 35 people teaching or otherwise supporting their various Mandarin offerings. That evidences strong commitment to me.
Still, a friend’s child recently graduated from one of these schools basically illiterate in Chinese (native speaker of Mandarin). This regrettable situation was probably cause by the student’s lack of interest in academic subjects, the Taiwanese parent’s very laissez faire attitude to education, and the foreign parent’s halting Chinese, attitudes toward Chinese language and Taiwanese society. Another factor was probably the fact that her peer group at school all planned to leave Taiwan as soon as possible and generally considers Taiwan to be an inferior place for losers.
This student has already moved overseas and I doubt they will ever come back. That’s Taiwan’s loss in many ways because the student has many fine non-academic qualities.
Things have changed. Covid came along and people also now work from home. Also my sons wife took parental leave as did my son. Working from home a couple days a week and having one parent on parental leave while the other worked allows them both time to raise two young children. Also my son having a Taiwanese mom living in Australia she is spending time with the grandkids as well as does his wifes mom. He’s got a lot of time for the family. Also in Australia everyone gets 4 weeks annual holidays plus public holidays and sick leave.
Also you are single are you not? So it’s easier for you how you manage your time. I work to sports schedules but I do not analyze the sports for data or sports betting. So today I came to office at 7:45am. I have live events from 8:30am to 11am. All events setup for clients by 8:15am
My work day is done lol My wife is off galivanting around other cities for the day. Nice sunshine will go for an hours walk later on.
I’m just kidding of course. It reminded me slightly of Hillary Clinton’s old shill back in the 90s about it taking a whole village to raise a child. While that was re-packaged pseudo-hippy political baloney, there is some truth in it. Like almost anything, it helps to have a network of people to help.
Ah I see. Yes, students might find studying Chinese pointless if they plan to emigrate, but you never know if you might one day return. I guess I’m the perfect example of that.
Even though I’m a native Chinese speaker, I never took Chinese classes beyond 10th grade (or read 紅樓夢) because I had transferred to an international school in mainland China by that time, and I pretended to be dumb to get into the easier non-native Chinese class. I planned to return to the US and wasn’t planning to ever go back to China, so Chinese wasn’t important to me. My parents were both so busy working 40-hour/week jobs that they didn’t have time to notice that I was placed in the dumbed-down Chinese class. If they knew, they would have immediately called the school administration to tell them I was playing dumb.
Well, I was right. I ended up working in the US and around the world, and never returned to China. BUT…
Little did I know, I would one day immigrate to Taiwan. Now I wish I hadn’t played dumb in my Chinese classes.
Exactly. I am now single and working part-time which is the perfect balance for me. I can’t imagine having a family, and then on top of that having to work full-time to support said family.
Now I wish I hadn’t played dumb in my Chinese classes.