Economic Turmoil means election is over

I thought that McCain was doing well - in the face of the weak economy, the unpopularity of Bush, and war fatigue - to make a close race of things, but the current financial meltdown will surely mean that Obama is elected.

The crisis and the steps to deal with it shine a unflattering light on the Republican mantras of “small government” and “government isn’t the solution, it’s the problem.”

Most people will think that there was not enough government regulation (and/or enforcement) of financial markets, and the government stepping in is proof of this.

And likewise, when it comes to health care, are people sick of leaving it to the free market?

I think over is overstating things

ft.com/cms/s/0/a5fd01f6-883e … fd18c.html

2 percentage points is not that far outside the margin of error for one poll. Ok, this is an average, so the effective margin of error might be less, but 2% would not be decisive even if the margin were zero.

Mind you, I think turmoil in financial markets will make people more sympathetic to the idea of government intervention. Still, it’s quite possible that the current underwriting of lenders will cause things to go back to normal, at least until after the election.

Plus, as someone else recently pointed out on this forum, black voters apparently prefer the party of white robes and pointy hats to the Democrats. :wink:

And, as evidenced by the past two US elections, America is a nation of idiots that never learns from past mistakes.

So, might as well roll the dice as try to figure it out based on logic.

I don’t agree that it’s over. The Democrats could have shown leadership on this issue over three years ago. They, including Obama, chose not to. :smiling_imp: Stood by the Daley machine in Chicago and by Fannie and Freddie. :laughing: On the other hand, McCain was one of the three cosponsors of S.190. The Repubs should be pounding on this and pounding on this hard IMHO.

And what about Obama’s connections to Wall Street. Why is a first term Senator pulling down almost $300,000 a year from Goldman Sachs, Lehman Brothers, Bear Stearns, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, AIG, Countrywide Financial, and Washington Mutual? He has not even completed his fourth year in the Senate and received a total of $1,093,329.00 from these eight companies and their employees.

They should create a commercial with Obama eating out of the hand of the statue of Alexander Hamilton on Wall Street. :smiling_imp:

bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= … KSoiNbnQY0

smalldeadanimals.com/

Small Dead Animals – a trusted name in news.
It’s all them Dems fault!

Are the Republicans looking to add the word “socialist” to their party title anytime soon? Poor bastards, imagine if you’d spent US$800bn of the public’s money trying to settle an economy and no one even noticed!

I say it will be bliss to get a fiscally responsible party back in the whitehouse. Bring on Obama, baby!

HG

[quote=“Dr. McCoy”]Small Dead Animals – a trusted name in news.
It’s all them Dems fault![/quote]

Care to address why Obama chose not to vote for S.190 three years ago in Committee? Didn’t think so :laughing:

I don’t understand financial stuff… but, given the post by Chewy above briefly citing legislative history of S.190, what makes you think that the Dems will be fiscally responsible?

When have the Dems ever been fiscally responsible?

Bush has been anything but a conservative, fiscally speaking. The economy was decent during Clinton’s terms, but, he had a Republican Congress keeping him in line, so to speak. How will electing to the office of President the most liberal senator with what will likely be a Democrat-controlled Congress result in fiscal responsibility?

Well, in all truth it;s hard to imagine how he could possibly do any worse. Fiscally responsible and Republicans just don;t match, I;m afraid. Bush has seen to that!

Anyway, s.190 is small change compared to having the financial system melt on your watch. Go lil’ pussy! I’m sure he can up my gold holdings some more before he leaves office! Have to say, he’s been very good to me, of course that’s because I’ve been punting on him fucking up. He’s really not let me down at all!

HG

The guy that wrote the Bloomberg article is what? An advisor to who?

The bill was introduced and died in committee when the Republicans controlled the Senate. So it’s Obama’s fault right?
Here is another critique. H.R. 1461 was the House version.

Yeah, but… how is electing the most liberal senator with a Democrat-controlled Congress going to result in more fiscal responsibility?

Clinton was a center-right democrat… that’s why he was electable. And Clinton was working with/against a republican Congress.

I really don’t see how Obamessiah with a Democrat-controlled Congress is going to make things better (for the US… I understand that things might well get better for you with an Obamessiah presidency…).

Maybe that’s why you are hoping for an Obamessiah presidency… and maybe you mean better for you when you post about “things getting better”?

Australia is on McCain’s list of places to be bombed.

I’m willing to bet Obama never prints off anything like US$800bn and throws it at the banks without drafting a conversion plan on the CDOs they hold - may as well have flushed it into the toilet! I’m also willing to bet he doesn’t kickstart any federal program that costs anything like the futile war in Iraq, for example. I mean if you think about it, Obama’s got one hell of a long leash on not beating lil’ pussy on spending government money.

I say let McCain bomb Australia! HJopefully he’ll hit the gold producing regions! Godamn but these repubs are good for gold investors!

HG

It might not be Obamessiah’s fault… but it seeme that its a matter of record that he opposed the bill that would have added some regulation, even if it would not have been adequate regulation.

Did Obamessiah suggest any alternative legislation that would have addressed the problems?

That’s so cool the way you managed to ignore the people that are responsible for this mess. :laughing:

HG

And who is one of Obama’s closest economic advisors? Franklin Raines, the former CEO of the recently bailed out mortgage lender Fannie Mae :smiley: :smiling_imp: :roflmao:

tw.youtube.com/watch?v=SYI0mHWQeD8

I don’t understand financial stuff… but, given the post by Chewy above briefly citing legislative history of S.190, what makes you think that the Dems will be fiscally responsible?[/quote]

That’s exactly right. Neither Chewy nor anyone else on this forum knows the facts concerning S.190 and its history and the reasons why anyone voted for or against it. He, and the right-wing smear sites are only throwing it out there in an attempt to confuse people and discredit Obama based on facts none of us is familiar with and allegations none of us truly understand.

But I’m sure he, and his fellow swift-boaters, are completely wrong to suggest that McCain saw the economic troubles ahead and always put public interest ahead of self interest, while Obama was merely sucking at the public teat. That’s total BS. McCain and Chewy are only slinging mud.

Not only did one of McCain’s closest advisors tell Americans to quit whining because the economic troubles are all in their heads, but. . .

[quote]Senator John McCain’s campaign manager was paid more than $30,000 a month for five years as president of an advocacy group set up by the mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to defend them against stricter regulations. . .

last week the McCain campaign stepped up a running battle of guilt by association when it began broadcasting commercials trying to link Mr. Obama directly to the government bailout of the mortgage giants this month by charging that he takes advice from Fannie Mae’s former chief executive, Franklin Raines, an assertion both Mr. Raines and the Obama campaign dispute.

Incensed by the advertisements, several current and former executives of the companies came forward to discuss the role that Rick Davis, Mr. McCain’s campaign manager and longtime adviser, played in helping Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac beat back regulatory challenges when he served as president of their advocacy group, the Homeownership Alliance. . .

“The value that he brought to the relationship was the closeness to Senator McCain and the possibility that Senator McCain was going to run for president again,” said Robert McCarson, a former spokesman for Fannie Mae. . . [/quote]

nytimes.com/2008/09/22/us/po … in.html?em

I’m not ignoring anything. I don’t work in the financial industry and I’ve already stated that I really don’t understand the financial world.

I do, however, have a slight grasp of events that have transpired over the past several years, and it seems to me that a major cause of the meltdown is the housing problem… and unless I am completely clueless, my understanding is that much of the housing problem is a result of government wanting to give everyone the “American Dream”… a home… and again, unless I am mistaken (and I admit that I may well be), it is generally the Dems who want to get everyone in a home as cheaply as possble.

Is that not a big part of the current problem? And were the Dems not the primary backers of getting poor people into homes as quickly as possible?

I dunno, really… but I’m certainly not ignoring anything.

[quote=“Chewycorns”]And who is one of Obama’s closest economic advisors? Franklin Raines, the former CEO of the recently bailed out mortgage lender Fannie Mae :smiley: :smiling_imp: :roflmao:

tw.youtube.com/watch?v=SYI0mHWQeD8[/quote]
From the article that MT linked,

[quote]But last week the McCain campaign stepped up a running battle of guilt by association when it began broadcasting commercials trying to link Mr. Obama directly to the government bailout of the mortgage giants this month by charging that he takes advice from Fannie Mae’s former chief executive, Franklin Raines, an assertion both Mr. Raines and the Obama campaign dispute.

Incensed by the advertisements, several current and former executives of the companies came forward to discuss the role that Rick Davis, Mr. McCain’s campaign manager and longtime adviser, played in helping Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac beat back regulatory challenges when he served as president of their advocacy group, the Homeownership Alliance, formed in the summer of 2000. Some who came forward were Democrats, but Republicans, speaking on the condition of anonymity, confirmed their descriptions.[/quote]
McCain’s attempt to smear apparently backfired.

It’s nothing to do with housing, but the way morgages were repackaged as bonds.

HG