Electrical (un)safety in Taiwan: the electrician's viewpoint

Taiwan Living in Taiwan
41

[quote=“llary”]I spoke to a ‘qualified’ Taiwanese ‘electrician’ not so long ago and he honestly did believe that bigger = better when it came to breakers. I thought he was joking but, no, ‘look… I got this 100A breaker - it’s REALLY SAFE’. ‘Err… but the maximum load on this circuit is 15A…’ ‘Yeh, but this breaker is EVEN SAFER’ bangs head on wall

Who the hell is training and certifying these people? Then again, most of them ARE certifiable.

[/quote]

:astonished: :noway: :unamused: :loco: :s

And I bet that my Austrian (and with EU this means European certificatians) in about 15 different areas of electricity would not be valid here. :unamused:

42

Can I translate this as meaning my electricity bill is always going to be higher because energy is being lost in the small wiring between the outside supply point and the wall sockets/ appliances.[/quote]

More or less yes. And the more power you need the more you loose (I

43

Seems to me that if there were any qualified electricians willing to do installs and refits up to the code that we all feel safe with, they would make a killing.
If I was an electrician I would be placing an ad saying I will do it the right way not the quick and dirty way.
Betcha my phone would not stop ringing :wink:
Anybody out there listening?

44

[quote=“shifty”]Seems to me that if there were any qualified electricians willing to do installs and refits up to the code that we all feel safe with, they would make a killing.
If I was an electrician I would be placing an ad saying I will do it the right way not the quick and dirty way.
Betcha my phone would not stop ringing :wink:
Anybody out there listening?[/quote]
In this country “quick and cheap” prevails over quality and safety, so I doubt anyone would be listening … :wink:

45

[quote=“shifty”]Seems to me that if there were any qualified electricians willing to do installs and refits up to the code that we all feel safe with, they would make a killing.
If I was an electrician I would be placing an ad saying I will do it the right way not the quick and dirty way.
Betcha my phone would not stop ringing :wink:
Anybody out there listening?[/quote]shifty -
I believe this is an exceelnt suggestion.
I have recently, within the past 14 months, had two friends have new homes built. Both took the time to source out contractors who would perform their work to US code standards (which I do believe would meet English/Aussie codes) for the electrical, plumbing and HAC work.
They did not chose the cheaper/easier Taiwanese way. They were both involved in the construction ad had good communication with their contractors. Also, in both cases, these folks are Taiwanese.
So yes, I also believe this presents an “Opportunity” for someone.

46

Here’s an example of what can happen, (not Taiwan) just a few days ago:

LIAOYUAN, Jilin, Dec. 17 (Xinhuanet) – Chinese police said Saturday they had detained the electrician blamed for a hospital fire that left 39 people dead in the northeastern city of Liaoyuan.

The electrician, surnamed Zhang, head of the electrician team for the City Central Hospital in Liaoyuan of northeast China’s Jilin Province, was taken into custody for “violation of operating rules” that caused the tragedy, according to the Dongji branch of the Liaoyuan city public security bureau.

Police investigation shows that at 4:30 Thursday afternoon, Zhang, who was on duty, found a power outage in the hospital. He then went to the electrical distribution room on the second floor and resumed power supply without checking the cause of the blackout first, and left.

Hearing cracks in the room two or three minutes later, Zhang returned but only found smoke rising in there.

Zhang immediately ran out of the building to pull off the switch of the transformer. When he was back again, fire had started to spread.

The director of the department’s logistics department, Zhang’s superior, was also detained, police said.

The head of the hospital is being investigated by government departments concerned, sources said.

The fire broke out at about 4:30 Thursday afternoon and was put out at 10:00 at night.

It burnt some 5,000 square meters of the four four-storied buildings, which are conjoined to form a square, in the largest hospital of Liaoyuan, about 120 km southwest of Changchun, capital of Jilin Province.

“The fire is a rarely seen and the most disastrous one in the country’s medical institutions since the founding of the People’s Republic of China in 1949,” said Health Minister Gao Qiang, who is in the city to deal with the aftermath of the accident.

47

I’ve enjoyed reading this thread.

I don’t really have anything constructive to offer but I do have a funny little story.

About a month ago I was riding around the Keelung area of Taiwan when I pulled over to have a drink of water. I stopped near a set of traffic lights at a crossroads.
It was about 10 or 11 o’clock at night. I saw a small box attached to one of the traffic light poles of which the door had been left ajar so I had a peek inside.
Inside there was a plug and socket - a two pin just like the ones you get in your house. Above the plug there was a circuit breaker switch.

I pulled out the plug and all the traffic lights went out. I couldn’t believe it.
Of course I put the plug back in. The traffic lights flashed yellow for a few seconds then went back to their original routine.
They were those new fangled LED jobbies, but I’d have thought they were connected in such a way that you don’t need to plug the damn things in.

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[quote=“shifty”]Seems to me that if there were any qualified electricians willing to do installs and refits up to the code that we all feel safe with, they would make a killing.
If I was an electrician I would be placing an ad saying I will do it the right way not the quick and dirty way.
Betcha my phone would not stop ringing :wink:
Anybody out there listening?[/quote]

Sure, but what are you going to pay per hour… NT$100.

I’ve had to do some rewiring of sockets and boards for customers when doing their satellite TV installs. I’ve seen some shocking wiring here.

49

I’ll third that.

Hell, this bugs me so much that if anyone lives in Taichung I will come and check your electrical safety gratis.

A guy with a PhD in f’ knows what now assures me that it’s fine to slap interior switches/sockets/light fittings outside without any protection. I guess Taiwanese don’t get the ‘water and electricity don’t mix’ lessons in school…

[quote=“TainanCowboy”]shifty -
I believe this is an exceelnt suggestion.
I have recently, within the past 14 months, had two friends have new homes built. Both took the time to source out contractors who would perform their work to US code standards (which I do believe would meet English/Aussie codes) for the electrical, plumbing and HAC work.
They did not chose the cheaper/easier Taiwanese way. They were both involved in the construction ad had good communication with their contractors. Also, in both cases, these folks are Taiwanese.
So yes, I also believe this presents an “Opportunity” for someone.[/quote]

50

[quote=“Big Fluffy Matthew”] Why was I, a non plumber, able to connect it first time, when a so called professional didn’t even know that B&Q sold exactly what was needed ? :loco:

Yes, I do feel proud I was able to do it :slight_smile: But he should have been able to too.[/quote]

You have no idea how often I say that to people here.

“Why was I, a regular person… able to do this better than you…a proffesional?”

51

[quote=“Mordeth”]

You have no idea how often I say that to people here.

“Why was I, a regular person… able to do this better than you…a proffesional?”[/quote]

Because they are not profffessionals … they are just … euh … (un)handy-men … with a binlang brain and whisby in their lunch box …

52

HAHAHAHA! I once asked an “electrician” for an IP54 light switch for the balcony. I actually had to show him on the internet that there were such things as fully waterproof switches, lights, and sockets/plugs. I showed him an IP67 3-phase plug and socket and he just went “Can’t get those in Taiwan” I felt like saying “listen fucknuts, they’re MADE IN TAIWAN!!!”

I mean how do they do pond lighting, and swimming pool lighting here? :runaway:

53

[quote=“Miranda”]HAHAHAHA! I once asked an “electrician” for an IP54 light switch for the balcony. I actually had to show him on the internet that there were such things as fully waterproof switches, lights, and sockets/plugs. I showed him an IP67 3-phase plug and socket and he just went “Can’t get those in Taiwan” I felt like saying “listen fucknuts, they’re MADE IN TAIWAN!!!”

I mean how do they do pond lighting, and swimming pool lighting here? :runaway:[/quote]

I once asked someone for something and they responded with “That doesn’t exist.”…I’ve heard this answer a few times here.

LISTEN FUCKNUTS! JUST BECAUSE YOU DON’T KNOW OF IT…DOESN’T MEAN IT DOESN’T EXIST!!!

Some people… :help:

54

Come on… even the Reader’s Digest DIY Compendium has a complete section on outdoor electrics!

Even if I show in-yer-face proof that outdoor wiring must be protected with rated sheathing and gaskets nobody listens. Yesterday I ripped out the socket that was installed only two years ago and pointed out how the cable insulation inside had rotted almost down to the copper core. It wasn’t even 1.5mm^2 cable and the lighting ring had more spurs than a cowboy but that would just complicate matters further. (I’ll see if I can get some pics… my main priority is for nobody to die on my premises any time soon).

What’s worse is when the ‘electricians’ understand that outdoor electrical systems need protection from the elements and think that bathroom sealant around the (interior) light switches is quite sufficient. In fact, water had penetrated the modular switches and pooled inside the wall cavity as there was nowhere for it to drain off. While trying not to be melodramatic, this really was potentially lethally dangerous.

Please don’t mention Taiwanese underwater electrics; I was hoping to get a sound night’s sleep tonight.

PS: I found it telling that the plug-in RCCDs available almost everywhere in England are impossible to find in Taiwan. I’d like to buy one for using power tools / mower outdoors. I’ve tried B&Q and the smaller shops think I’m joking.

[quote=“Miranda”]HAHAHAHA! I once asked an “electrician” for an IP54 light switch for the balcony. I actually had to show him on the internet that there were such things as fully waterproof switches, lights, and sockets/plugs. I showed him an IP67 3-phase plug and socket and he just went “Can’t get those in Taiwan” I felt like saying “listen fucknuts, they’re MADE IN TAIWAN!!!”

I mean how do they do pond lighting, and swimming pool lighting here? :runaway:[/quote]

55

Just how many electricians are there on this forum?! Can I be the Shop Steward? :wink:

I’m prepared to bet RCCDs don’t work here because every circuit has some degree of leakage to earth. You’d have to set such a high threshold that they’d be useless.

Yet another edit: RS has a warehouse here you know…

onlinehelp.tw@rs-components.com

rstaiwan.com/ (and they do English)

NT$1,000 for either of these. All you need is some 13A socket outlets and, er, plugs, and adapters and what have you.

56

For lighting fixtures they use probably .75 mm square, that’s enough for a 40-60 watt bubble … but everybody use saver lamps, 16W nowadays …

Normally in Belgium … sockets 2,5 mm square (4-6 max. per breaker), lighting 1.5 mm square, kitchen some appliences need at least 4 mm square + RCCD. Sockets and lights need to be seperate. All at 220 V.

If split circuit 220V—>24V for lights is used there is no regulation for the 24 V circuit. You could use telephone wire …

Natural gas line needs to be on the earth, earth has to be max. 10 ohm, watermain needs to be earthed to I believe … all sockets need to have earth.

And many more REGULATIONS …

57

[quote=“belgian pie”]For lighting fixtures they use probably .75 mm square, that’s enough for a 40-60 watt bubble … but everybody use saver lamps, 16W nowadays …

Normally in Belgium … sockets 2,5 mm square (4-6 max. per breaker), lighting 1.5 mm square, kitchen some appliences need at least 4 mm square + RCCD. Sockets and lights need to be separate. All at 220 V.

If split circuit 220V—>24V for lights is used there is no regulation for the 24 V circuit. You could use telephone wire …

Natural gas line needs to be on the earth, earth has to be max. 10 ohm, watermain needs to be earthed to I believe … all sockets need to have earth.

And many more REGULATIONS …[/quote]

Yes, the “many more Regulations” ends up in Austria with a lot of books. If you put them over each other you reach about 2,5 m. But thats including every kind of electric device and electric installation up to powerplants. :smiley:
But here it seems sometimes that the regulations they use are just like the covers of these books.

Found some pics I took when we moved to here, will try to host them somewhere and put them here. Found some nice things.

58

I’ll put them up if you want to send them to me. We can start a Taiwan Electrics Hall Of Shame.

[quote=“mingshah”][quote=“belgian pie”]For lighting fixtures they use probably .75 mm square, that’s enough for a 40-60 watt bubble … but everybody use saver lamps, 16W nowadays …

Normally in Belgium … sockets 2,5 mm square (4-6 max. per breaker), lighting 1.5 mm square, kitchen some appliences need at least 4 mm square + RCCD. Sockets and lights need to be separate. All at 220 V.

If split circuit 220V—>24V for lights is used there is no regulation for the 24 V circuit. You could use telephone wire …

Natural gas line needs to be on the earth, earth has to be max. 10 ohm, watermain needs to be earthed to I believe … all sockets need to have earth.

And many more REGULATIONS …[/quote]

Yes, the “many more Regulations” ends up in Austria with a lot of books. If you put them over each other you reach about 2,5 m. But thats including every kind of electric device and electric installation up to powerplants. :smiley:
But here it seems sometimes that the regulations they use are just like the covers of these books.

Found some pics I took when we moved to here, will try to host them somewhere and put them here. Found some nice things.[/quote]

59

Same in the UK… they made it easy for us thickos by doing the calculations and telling us maximum cable lengths, maximum points per ring main, etc. etc. and I don’t see why it’s so hard to follow :stuck_out_tongue: Taiwanese electricians also seem to be confused about why a ring main is configured as such and quite happily throw spurs onto spurs onto spurs onto… I need a lie down.

The UK also has very explicit regulations on what you can and can’t put in a bathroom. And that means no sockets and trailing wires above sinks. You can even get a little booklet free from B&Q that shows you the 3 different zones in a bathroom and what you’re allowed to put in them (as follows: diydata.com/electrics/bathro … ctrics.htm).

Taiwan has one zone only: the I’ll Put It There If There’s Enough Cable Left In The Van Zone.

Wishing everyone a shockingly merry xmas!

[quote=“belgian pie”]For lighting fixtures they use probably .75 mm square, that’s enough for a 40-60 watt bubble … but everybody use saver lamps, 16W nowadays …

Normally in Belgium … sockets 2,5 mm square (4-6 max. per breaker), lighting 1.5 mm square, kitchen some appliences need at least 4 mm square + RCCD. Sockets and lights need to be separate. All at 220 V.

If split circuit 220V—>24V for lights is used there is no regulation for the 24 V circuit. You could use telephone wire …

Natural gas line needs to be on the earth, earth has to be max. 10 ohm, watermain needs to be earthed to I believe … all sockets need to have earth.

And many more REGULATIONS …[/quote]

60

A Very Merry Christmas Tree Lights At Full Mains Voltage And No Earth to All!

Hic.