Eligibility for NWOHR passport+TARC if no active household registration at time of birth

When nationals with HHR leave Taiwan for a long period, say more than a year, they are supposed to move out their HHR (~deactivate HHR: 戶籍遷出國外 in Chinese). If they don’t their HHR will be automatically deactivated after 2 years.
The HHR may be conected to NHI, but you need to confirm.

Overseas Chinese” status may be mostly to avoid conscription for young male nationals.

To reactivate a HHR(辦理遷入or恢復戶籍), you need a proof of address again.

As for the address, if you can borrow your extended relative’s address, transcript of the HHR and the relative’s permit can be the proof of the address.

yes, imo

Some sites in Chinese

https://www.pthg.gov.tw/fangliao-house/News_Content.aspx?n=0607FD1334485B18&sms=82A83F699502B12F&s=527C261C3FA524D5

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I didn’t mean anything particular other than you’ll need the document so make sure you have it when the time comes. I’ve never rented in Taiwan, so I don’t know what is normal and not when dealing with landlords other than some details other people told me about unrelated processes like early termination of rental agreement.

Also note that the government only recently changed the law to require landlords to allow people to use their address for HHR (I think maybe it has tax implications or other legal implications for the landlords).

I agree with Tando. You probably don’t need overseas Chinese status as far as I know, unless you want to share info about the purpose it will serve to help you in some way (maybe we can confirm or further clarify the validity of any such concepts).

I don’t think 定居 involves a lot more paperwork beyond what you’ll have already done and compiled up to that point.

Socially it may be frowned upon to get citizenship and leave immediately, but legally I don’t think it matters.

Returning to the fundamental issue of my case – the status of my father’s HHR at the time of my birth. There may be a problem.

I’m not sure about this anymore.

The key question is whether or not the status of the HHR, at the time of birth of the descendant, is important.

The optimistic line of reasoning laid out in our earlier discussion argues that expiry of the parent’s HHR at the time of the descendant’s birth does not matter for the descendant’s TARC application:

Unfortunately, I just discovered by re-reading the old threads that in @multipass’s situation, the NIA appeared to require proof that the deceased parent’s HHR was active at the time of birth.

Here’s the quote from @multipass’s thread (cue depressing music here):

This unfortunately seems to match with my case:

  1. Deceased ROC parent
  2. HHR currently inactive
  3. Descendant born overseas
  4. Need to prove HHR was active during the date descendant was born. :sob:

And @paperclip’s case also relied on an active, non-expired HHR, as stated above:

Please, prove me wrong. Do I still have a chance at a TARC (under AF384) if my father’s HHR was inactive (i.e. expired automatically due to long overseas residence) at the date I was born? @multipass, could you perhaps clarify what exactly you had to prove about your HHR to get your TARC application approved? When you say you had to prove your mother’s HHR was “active” at the time of your birth, does “active” mean “not expired”?

I really want that to be true. But I’m not sure that we have seen proof of such a case (born to overseas ROC national with expired HHR) having successfully gone through.

If I attempt to understand the law that tando quoted, it states that these persons are eligible for a TARC (through AF384, though that’s not stated on the page):

Now, what is the exact meaning of 居住臺灣地區設有戶籍國民? Based on @multipass’s quote above, it seems the NIA took a hardline stance and said that the key aspect was proof that the HHR was active at the time of the overseas birth of the descendant.

Also from @Lain’s thread we see:

Again, implying that active status of HHR a time of birth seems to be required.

Can anyone point to evidence that an inactive HHR at time of birth can be used / has successfully been used for an AF384-based TARC?

If not, then AF384 might not be an option for me.

I think the only glimmer of hope is this part of @tando’s post:

Because of my limited Chinese ability I need time to work through the Chinese wording of the text to see if it really implies the “or originally” as stated in the English translation.

But even if “originally” having had HHR (i.e. HHR was expired at time of birth) still qualifies the applicant legally for an AF384-based TARC, the unfortunate fact remains that, as I understand, the NIA required @multipass to prove that the HHR was active at the time of birth, taking a stricter view of the law. So it could be an uphill battle to argue to the NIA that AF384 does not require HHR active at time of birth, but only requires having “originally” had an HHR. To make such a challenging legal argument to the NIA, I would probably go with an immigration lawyer like the one @tando linked to above (thanks @tando for the link to the Taiwanese immigration laywer).

Thanks for reading. Any thoughts would be appreciated!

Hi @Hayashi,

Overall I think it might not be a problem, but I don’t know for sure. If I had to guess, I would guess it’s probably not a problem.

Through the many discussions we’ve had, we’ve discovered that there are actually many statuses of household registration that probably aren’t clearly explained to the public (at least in English terms).

‘Active’ can mean different things. For example:

  • Active could mean not ‘expired’ or ‘inactive due to continuous duration outside of country’
  • Active could mean ‘not cancelled’ due to renouncing citizenship or losing citizenship for any other reason

I’m also uncertain that these concepts of ‘active’ or ‘not active’ existed at the time when I was born, or at the time you were born. I think we can’t assume the law and execution of the law (i.e. SOPs the government workers used to carry out the related work) in general, and the HHR law specifically, operated the same way without changing over the years.

I’ll try to check later, but at the time I was born my mother hadn’t been residing in Taiwan for multiple years, and I’m not completely sure but I would guess that she may not have returned to Taiwan for multiple years as well.

I think I just had to prove that my mom had a legitimate HHR at the time that hadn’t been cancelled or anything like that, but even so, I think I know of at least 1 case where a person’s parent’s HHR was still accepted despite ‘renouncing citizenship’ (if I remember the timeline of that case correctly).

I really want that to be true. But I’m not sure that we have seen proof of such a case (born to overseas ROC national with expired HHR ) having successfully gone through.

I think we do, for at least a couple of the various definitions of the term ‘expired’.

Can anyone point to evidence that an inactive HHR at time of birth can be used / has successfully been used for an AF384-based TARC?

I don’t think I have evidence handy, but I do believe I’ve heard of this case succeeding. Some people keep information like this somewhat private due to all of the struggles they have with the government around this issue, which can lead to fears of having their legal status here changed/revoked, which is really painful for a lot of children of Taiwanese parents in my experience. So, just because people aren’t rushing to post their personal details online doesn’t mean that there aren’t cases exactly like yours.

At this point, I would say that if you truly want to go through with this and believe it is important to you, you can just go ahead and give it a shot. If you are worried about it not working it, you don’t need to spend the time to try. However, either way you will need to try and see the results to truly know what the outcome will be. I personally think you should get the HHR for your parent first and review it in detail with someone with Chinese language skills and start there. That said, you will be relying on their interpretation, which is going at add another layer of potential confusion, so be sure to ask carefully, or even try doing your own analysis up front and then asking them about anything particular terminology.

Indeed!

Thanks – that would be very helpful to serve as a specific example of what kind of an HHR status you were able to use successfully for an AF384-based TARC. In other words, this can hopefully shed some light on what the NIA expects when it wants to see an HHR that was “active” at the time of birth.

Also, what Chinese word would you use to describe the “active” or “legitimate” status that your mother’s HHR had at your birth? (I assume this would be the same as the Chinese word for “active” that the NIA used when it demanded to see an “active” HHR at the time of your birth.) If your mother’s HHR status at the time of your birth (automatically expired due to multi-year overseas residence, but not canceled, and hence still in some sense “active”) was essentially the same as my father’s HHR status at the time of my birth, then by knowing the Chinese word (or phrase) to describe this “active” status I can make the argument that my father’s HHR fulfills the requirements for AF384.

To avoid confusion, and to attempt to frame the problem in Chinese, would you agree that the problem can be stated as below? All of the Chinese phrases below are copy/pasted from the above discussion; see above for the original references.

  1. For an AF384 TARC application, an applicant must prove that s/he fulfills (三) 居住臺灣地區設有戶籍國民在國外出生之子女,年齡在二十歲以上。(But note this wording was proposed to be changed to 在國外出生, 出生時其父或母為居住臺灣地區設有戶籍國民)

  2. To prove #1, the applicant must prove the applicant’s parent is categorized as 居住臺灣地區設有戶籍國民, at the time of the applicant’s birth.

  3. The requirement for the parent being 居住臺灣地區設有戶籍國民 “at the time of the descendant’s birth” is implied by the proposed change in wording of the law such that the condition 出生時 is added.

  4. To prove the applicant’s parent was 居住臺灣地區設有戶籍國民 at the time of the applicant’s birth, the applicant needs to provide a copy of an old HHR (戶籍謄本) to be obtained from the 戶政事務所.

  5. The mere existence of the parent’s 戶籍謄本 proves that the parent was a 居住臺灣地區設有戶籍國民. Even if the parent moved out of Taiwan for several years, that does not affect (assuming there was no explicit renunciation by the parent) the parent’s 居住臺灣地區設有戶籍國民 status, according to tando’s quote:

  1. Having proved that the parent had 居住臺灣地區設有戶籍國民 status at some time in the past, the applicant should further prove that the parent had 居住臺灣地區設有戶籍國民 status at the time of the applicant’s birth (to fulfill the proposed and/or implied 出生時 condition). This is proved by the absence of any indication on the 戶籍謄本 of an explicit cancellation by the parent. (Note: what would such a cancellation be called in Chinese?)

  2. Having proved that the parent had 居住臺灣地區設有戶籍國民 at the time of the applicant’s birth, the applicant must further prove s/he is the son/daughter of the parent, by means of a TECO-authenticated birth certificate. (NOTE: in my particular case, my parents’ marriage was probably not registered in Taiwan, so I would probably need to update the 戶籍謄本 to prove the marriage occurred before my birth and hence to prove I was a “legitimate” son of my 居住臺灣地區設有戶籍國民 parent).

  3. Having completed all of the above, the applicant will have proved that s/he is the son/daughter of a parent who had 居住臺灣地區設有戶籍國民 at the time of birth, therefore satisfying the requirement of (三) 居住臺灣地區設有戶籍國民在國外出生之子女,年齡在二十歲以上 for an AF384-based TARC.

Agree? Disagree?

Fyi

何謂在台設有戶籍國民及在台無戶籍國民?出國兩年以上戶籍已遷出者屬何者?
答:

  1. 依戶籍法規定,戶籍登記係以戶為單位,指身分登記及遷徒登記兩大類,其中身分登記包括出生、認領、收養、終止收養、結婚、離婚、監護、死亡、死亡宣告等,凡曾因此而設有戶籍者,即為在台有戶籍者,未曾辦理戶籍登記者,即為無戶籍人士。
  2. 另依規定出境二年以上應為遷出之登記,其戶籍所在地所政事務所得逕行為之;當事人戶籍遷出後,仍屬有戶籍國人。

https://www.taiwanembassy.org/at/post/1273.html

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Hi, this is such a useful thread! I have just arrived back in TW and in mid-quarantine. I have a NWOHR passport and was planning on going to Immigration to ask about applying for TARC but am finding all the requirements daunting especially since I cannot read or write Chinese and speak poor Mandarin. Can anyone tell me if there are agencies or agents that can be hired to help do this for me that I could give power of attorney to? Thanks.

@tando My wife has automatically lost her HHR after being away for ten years. Is it possible to use a short term lease to renew? Or would it be better to renew under an immediate relative? We were married in Taiwan and we called the HHR office of our marriage certificate and they said we need to get in contact with our landlord from ten years ago! We are staying one month in a place, but I only have 15 days to apply for the ARC. Could we use the short term address? Or would it be better to renew under an immediate relative in an address where we don’t live?

Also our children are NWOHR under 12 years old. Do they need a TARC?

Regarding NHI, would my wife have to wait 6 months to receive NHI? Does this also apply to minor children as well? I read the law is about to change on this but not sure if there is a 6 month requirement.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

if the address is not your property and you want to register as an independent hhr, you need an agreement from the property owner and should show the title of the property to the office. So, I think the relative option is easier.

if they have ROC passport and entry exit permit, they can be defied directly, uric.

yes, if not employed.

Thank you for the quick response tando.

The both have NWOHR passports with entry permits (doesn’t say exit) however it says duration of stay is three months. TECO told us we’d have to apply for TARC for them, but I also read under 12 years they didn’t need.

I am employed so could the wife and children get NHI through me after receiving my ARC?

if they will not get their HHR with their mother, they should get TARC or ARC, iiuc
U12 don’t need background check.

I believe so.

Hi, this is my first post on Forumosa, but I’ve been reading and would like to thank everyone here for all of the very informative and helpful content!

Not sure if it’s best practice here to start a new topic or reply on existing threads, but here is my situation:

  • I’m a female over 20 hoping to apply for both a NWOHR passport first and then later (when I can go to Taiwan) an entry permit and TARC
  • my father was born in Taiwan but left as a young child for the US with his parents. My mother is ethnically Chinese, but not from Taiwan. They are married and I have a copy of their marriage certificate.
  • I have a copy of an old HHR from the 60s listing my paternal grandparents’ names and national ID numbers. My father’s name is there too, but without a national ID number, presumably because he was so young.
  • when my father was going through the US naturalization process many years later, he applied for and received an ROC passport, which I also have. This expired after my birth, and has no national ID number in it, meaning that he was probably a NWOHR at the time. He naturalized as a US citizen after my birth, and did not renounce citizenship, although he may not have had citizenship to renounce.
  • my father and grandparents are all living, although none of them live in Taiwan or routinely visit Taiwan. As such, there was no active HHR at the time of my birth. I’m not sure if my grandparents still have their ROC passports or ID cards.

Based on this, I think I should qualify as a national and be able to get a NWOHR passport with the documents I already have, but I’m less sure about the TARC. Because my father appears never to have had a national ID number or 身份证, would people say my best chance would be getting one of my grandparents to renew their HHR and go the AF353 route? My grandma and I are planning on visiting relatives in Taiwan next year. How involved would the renewal process be and would it be realistic to complete over the course of a week or so?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
thanks

How to reactivate your grandma’s hhr, in Chinese.

If your father is on hukou, I think he can also renew his hhr in the same way, and he can get his id number at that time.

Thanks everyone for the great information. I read through most of the posts, but May have missed this. Can I apply under AF353 if I have both parents whose HHR recently went inactive (December 2020) but I have their National IDs with me in Taiwan. They haven’t been able to travel back to activate due to Covid. I do have an uncle on dads side who lives here and has active HHR.

5 posts were merged into an existing topic: How to get Permanent Residence as a NWOHR passport holder?

Sorry for reviving an old thread, so you couldn’t get full citizenship because your parent HHR was not activate at the time of birth? As in the parent moved out their HHR?

I haven’t pursued this actively since then, but in the meantime I have come to believe that my case does qualify for getting a residency/ID card (shenfenzheng)/full citizenship. My current understanding is that as long as the HHR existed for my parent at the time of my birth (and was not explicitly renounced), then even if the HHR was in “moved out” status, this still qualifies.

But more importantly, this all does not matter anymore for my case – all of the above discussion was based on the old law where I would have had to apply for a TARC, using AF384, and a 1-year residency. But with the new law passed, my understanding (someone correct me if I am wrong!) is that if you are born to a Taiwanese who had valid HHR (even if in “moved out” status when you were born), then, under the new law, you automatically qualify to apply for residency/ID card (shenfenzheng)/full citizenship and do not need the intermediate step of applying for a TARC and do not need to complete a 1-year Taiwan residency anymore.

It’s going to be some time before I am able to proceed concretely with my own application plans, so please feel free to share your own experiences if/when you go through the application process yourself. I think we all are interested in if the new law (where the 1-year residency requirement has supposedly been dropped) works as expected, and if NWOHRs born overseas can immediately apply for an ID card and HHR.

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There is no such concept as an “inactive” HHR. Once you have obtained HHR, it is active for life, unless you renounce your Taiwanese citizenship.

If you move overseas, your HHR will be moved out of your old address in Taiwan, and be placed in a temporary holding spot (the nearest HHR office of your last address). This, however, doesn’t mean it’s “inactive”. It just means it doesn’t have a Taiwan address on it.

You are still entitled to all the rights and privileges of any Taiwanese citizen (unless it’s something that requires you to physically be in Taiwan).