You are putting loyalty to country at the top of the pyramid there. But how about your country’s loyalty to you? How about your loyalty to your family? What comes first? For me the answer is very clear.
The world would be a better, happier, wealthier place if law abiding people could live anywhere on the globe they wanted to live. Restricting freedom of movement because of outmoded ideas about nationalism is destined for the dustbin of history.
Yeah, that’s working out so well in Europe Globalism will only work if Cultures and People integrate .It can cause more problems than it solves . I hope one day people are ready for a borderless World .
It is. The EU has been a roaring success. Especially when you compare it to what came before.
I presume you must be living on the same Planet as YYY😂
Sure being stuck in one state was way worse than being able to freely live and work in 27, and of course WWI and WWII were loads of fun. Its way worse now, yes
I guess I would believe the utopia that is the EU , if I just got my information from the MSM . Maybe you are not from the UK, Spain, Italy, Greece, Hungary,Poland
MSM? Methylsulfonylmethane? That explains a lot
The EU is one of the most successful economic and political unions of all time, lifting living standards while preserving political freedoms , improving workers rights, raising environmental standards， cutting trading and importation costs, increasing education opportunities, reducing nationalistic fervor and most of all giving almost all of Europe peace in our time . All told it’s been a great success. When people complain about the EU they aren’t familiar with history nor the lack of rights or economic opportunity in much of the world !
As mentioned just the right to work and live and enjoy equal treatment in 27 countries is a tremendous achievement. What would replace it that is better for European citizens ?
A utopia that doesn’t exist.
Hear hear! I’ll second that!
Ahem. This Rigellian is a resident of Earth and neutral on whether the EU (as a political entity) is good or bad. My habit of rubbing northern European quality of life statistics in Americans’ faces is a separate matter.
You are my favorite expostulator of libertarian paradoxes. Globalism is a tyrannical conspiracy. Yet we should all look forward to the day when globalism triumphs, because then border controls will be abolished!
Your grudge against “elite club membership” and so on is understandable, but that kind of behavior exists with or without full citizenship. The people who really want to leave Taiwan in the event of a military conflict will leave, one way or another.
As for “dual loyalty” being the worst form as treason, if you take that to its logical conclusion, you’re basically saying mixed marriages are wrong unless one spouse absolutely submits to the country and culture of the other spouse, are you not? Otherwise, the children grow up with their cultural orientation divided between the culture of each parent, and if a child’s loyalty to the parents is roughly equal, that means parents who don’t have the same citizenship sow the seeds of treason without even trying.
Yet certain countries, which used to take the view that the wife automatically adopts the citizenship of the husband and renounces her former citizenship upon marriage, now take the view that marriage is a partnership and that both parties are entitled to respect from each other and from the state, including respect for their heritage and their existing families.
If you really want people to stop treating passports like luxury accessories – and I completely understand that – I don’t think attacking the very concept of dual citizenship is going to work. (Unless your species perfects parthenogenesis and abandons traditional reproduction, but I don’t see that happening soon.)
Can you give us examples of Spain as setting categories for foreigners in any way similar to Taiwan? They have bizarre laws but anything as opaque and «random» as the «reformed» nationality laws and all these weird cards are hard to match.
What is the word to use when an Anchor Baby tells an industrious immigrant what the rules for citizenship should be?
One of those you could call the globalisation of tyranny, the other you could call the globalisation of rainbows. If i went to every possible corner of the earth and drew a cat would be the globalisation of my cat drawing. paradox solved
For instance, the residence period in Spain for naturalization is generally 10 years and the foreign applicant is required to renounce their original nationality. For those of Iberian descent - which includes all of Latin America, Brazil, and Portugal - the residence period is reduced to 2 years and they are not required to give up citizenship.
Also, Spanish citizens by descent (=of Iberian ethnic origin) can always reclaim their Spanish nationality in case they renounced it in the process of acquiring a foreign citizenship.
So let’s apply this in practice. Jose-Miguel Cruz from Mexico stays in Spain for 2 years, naturalizes and gets to keep both his Mexican and Spanish citizenship. A few years later, Jose-Miguel decides to immigrate to Taiwan and naturalizes there. In case Taiwan requires him to renounce Spanish citizenship, he can easily reclaim it.
Wang Guang-Ming from Taipei however will have to stay in Spain for 10 years and also renounce his ROC citizenship.
Isn’t this exactly the sort of nationality law people on this forum complain about?
I think it’s a f’in shame that my kids who were born here and have excelled in the local school system have no real path to citizenship. And for that, and other reasons, they will move to Canada in the summer. A country they don’t know but where they hold a passport. But this has nothing to do with a gold card for foreigners.
While the part of fast track to people of same cultural background and easier assimilation is the same, it is based on passport, not race. Black, indigenous, etc as long as they are from Latin America. No sixth generation male descendants rule. Moreover, it is reciprocal. Spanish people also have fast tracks in Latin America.
You would also need to look closely for example at how fair is it. Is ang treated any different than a Vanz? Maybe there are fast tracks to EU members, as per common EI rules. Or are the requisites the same? Is Wang dependent on his employer or local family for residence? I bet Wang is allowed to buy a truck and put it on his name, a vineyard or a store. He is not made to jump through hoops or is completely forbidden, like in b the truck case.
Wang would have the same requisites as anyone else. There is not a special highway to nationality blocked to him because he is not of Spanish descent. There is no weird special b foreigner category.
He would not be depend on the kindness of his family to learn Spanish and he would have same chance at custody or residence if married with kids and wanting to divorce.
As a matter of fact, up to this day, marriage to Chinese nationals for residence and nationality purposes is going strong, as it was for Taiwanese years before. Because them based on passport, nationality would be a given.
Ike beat me to it. I’ll add that the vast majority of Filipinos and Equatorial Guineans are not ethnically Iberian, yet they are included in what you seem to think of as 伊比利亞民族 simply because their countries are former territories of the Spanish Empire.
Also, for clarification:
Ibero-America includes all Spanish-speaking countries in North, Central, and South America, plus the Portuguese-speaking country of Brazil. Ibero-America is differentiated from Latin America by the exclusion of the French-speaking country of Haiti, the French overseas departments of French Guiana, Martinique and Guadeloupe, and the French collectivities of Saint Martin and Saint Barthélemy. In addition, the countries of Guyana and Suriname, whose official languages are English and Dutch, respectively, are not considered to be either Ibero-American or Latin American.
For comparison, the UK used to have a permissive immigration policy for the Commonwealth (the so-called “rivers of blood” policy) but has abolished it, though still allowing easier immigration for the Irish (who are not in the Commonwealth) and maintaining certain rights for those Commonwealth citizens who do take up residence in the UK.
And also, again, a foreign spouse needs only one year of residence in Spain to qualify for naturalization, which is even less strict than the two years required for citizens of the former empire.
Btw @Brianjones here’s another case of “probationary citizenship” for you:
(As usual, I’m not saying these policies are good or bad or that what works for one country would necessarily work for another.)
Leaflet that I found useful and informative:
Link appears to have broken from my previous post. Find the images here: