"Employment gold card" for some foreigners


#143

Some folks I know from Eastern Europe (former Soviet bloc) find this place to be pretty awesome. It certain depends on your frame of reference.

Guy


#144

Indeed。My mum came once, never to return. But then this was downtown Hsinchu, which was then certainly an acquired taste.


#145

For my mom, the deal breakers were: noise, traffic, crowds, pollution, poor sanitation, heat, humidity, lack of sidewalks, greasy food. That’s a lot of deal breakers…


#146

I’m really confused. Aren’t most of us normal foreigners who at most opened up small businesses so we can support our family or at least work long hours pushing English and perhaps become stay at home dads to take care of our children during the day while the wife has the career job.
How is any of this helping us.
Might I remind you that in the last “foreigner revolution” under Hartzel, in one blast we won work permits, longer then permanent ARCs, my friend’s son was not a citizen of Taiwan because my friend was a foreigner male. But just a few months later, my kids were born citizens.
So… where is our citizenship? We who gave a lot to Taiwan? More than a radio show host of other type of person can?
Should Taiwan take care of families first? Where is our citizenship with out giving up our native one? I must be missing the instruction on how to do it? A civilized country would provide for family first, right?


#147

as a person from a country that doesnt allow multiple citizenship, it is not strange basically no citizenship unless giving up the original one. Duration needed for family is shorter than others.

IMO, the direction should be expanding/improving the rights of APRC holders, and correcting injustice of born citizenship.


#148

It’s not the easiest to take to if you haven’t been brought up in hot crowded urban environments. I have some relatives who couldn’t take the heat and crowds at all.


#149

Mort countries don’t require you to renounce and I know none that have a different rule for locals or that have a special category of special foreigners who don’t need to renounce. Like TV host. Bizarrely.


#150

Take Spain or Germany as an example of different rules due to ethnic/racial/descent considerations.

Take Austria and Switzerland as an example for merit considerations.

Spain, Germany, Austria, and Switzerland - four very uncivilized countries indeed.


#151

So please explain how they are the same as Taiwan then? Do they allow native born citizens to collect passports but foreigners sorry you have to give up yours?

Most countries allow dual or more passports, especially all those nice countries that Taiwanese like to collect passports from.

Also just because some country has some other retarded rules doesn’t make it a valid comparator .


#152

At least, Spain is so.


#153

Comparing Taiwan with the most open countries on the planet isn’t a great comparison - Taiwan isn’t that open (no Asian country is). Compare Taiwan with its closest peers - the other East Asian countries. PRC, Japan, HK/Macau (by virtue of being part of the PRC), Malaysia, Indonesia and Singapore all disallow dual citizenship (which means their own citizens can’t get dual). Korea, Vietnam, and Taiwan all allow their citizens to get duals but disallow naturalization without giving up existing ones. Only Thailand and the Phillipines are the big ones that let foreigners naturalize without giving anything up.

Basically all Asian countries are pretty closed about this.


#154

Actually, Austria officially frowns on dual citizenship, though it does make exceptions (like Arnold).

Also just because some country has some other retarded rules doesn’t make it a valid comparator .

Well, there’s having cake, and then there’s eating cake. One doesn’t necessarily justify the other, but one often precedes the other. Not as paradoxical as it sounds. :upside_down_face:


#155

I fecking hate the way you make a point that most countries allow dual citizenship and that Taiwanese people invariably enjoy dual citizenship with No restrictions and then people try their best to justify it by searching for countries that don’t allow dual citizenship. Those very much MINORITY of countries worldwide that disallow dual citizenship almost always ban their native born citizens too e.g Malaysia and they also warn their citizens not to attempt to hold dual nationality. It’s not the same as Taiwan whereas people can openly hold and celebrate dual nationality and can even fly home and vote in elections (only major restriction being for legislators and some public servants)!

Seems like you are incorrect about Korea.
If you are married to a Korean and resided in the country for a few years you can hold dual nationality. Since 2010.

https://transferwise.com/us/blog/how-to-get-citizenship-in-south-korea

So Korea isn’t so closed at all. And it’s a major Asian economy and country.

Also Hong Kong and Macau citizens are able to hold multiple passports (not sure what the whole ‘by virtue of being part of the PRC means’…).

It also seems you are wrong about Vietnam which allows dual citizenship for those married to Vietnamese spouses.

https://www.dualcitizenship.com/countries/vietnam.html

Also you conveniently left our Australia and New Zealand !

So my list says Korea, Vietnam, Thailand, Australia, New Zealand allow dual citizenship through marriage or otherwise.


#156

I was just about to get to that…

Taking the European examples Hsinhai suggested and developed countries in Asia:


Germany is more flexible about multiple citizenship (but theoretically still frowns on it), and a foreign spouse can apply for naturalization after three years (including two years of marriage).


Switzerland has a complex naturalization system, with “simplified” criteria for foreign spouses. It abolished restrictions on multiple citizenship in 1992.


In Spain, a foreign spouse can apply for naturalization after one year, but…

Foreign nationals who acquire Spanish nationality must renounce their previous nationality, unless they are natural-born citizens of an Iberoamerican country, Andorra, the Philippines, Equatorial Guinea or Portugal.


In SK a foreign spouse can qualify after three years of marriage including one year of residence, or two years of both, if I’m reading it correctly.

Apparently, both outstanding foreigners and foreign spouses can be exempted from renunciation. Also, the “no sensitive government jobs for immigrants” rule also applies to native Koreans with dual citizenship, unless they renounce.


Japan requires only one year of residence, but dual citizenship is basically haram.


Singapore requires PR status plus two years or plus national service for males. Dual citizenship is even more haram than in Japan. However…

The government argues that authorising its citizens to concurrently hold foreign nationalities would be undesirable since, due to Singapore’s geopolitical position, it cannot afford to allow its citizens multiple allegiances which may be compromised in times of national crisis. The government also fears that those without a second citizenship may feel aggrieved if dual citizens enjoy the benefits of citizenship during periods of wealth but leave the country in trying times.[13] Nevertheless, the government is open to the possibility of allowing dual citizenship if local and global circumstances demand so.[14]


#157

HK and Macau are a bit of a mess because of the different approaches taken by the three countries (to say nothing of South Asians) and the ways those approaches have changed over the years. Many have gotten away with dual citizenship, including certain politicians (until they got outed by the media and then voluntarily renounced). It’s still haram though, and you need to renounce if you naturalize.

As Chinese law does not recognize multiple citizenship status, all persons who naturalize in any of the three cannot retain their foreign nationalities if they wish to naturalize; they must renounce all their foreign nationalities, either during or shortly after naturalization (as per Article 8).[12] In practice, Mainland China and Hong Kong, foreign nationalities must be renounced as a part of the naturalization process, while in Macau all applicants have up to six months to renounce foreign nationalities upon a successful naturalization; failure or reluctance to do so will result in the revocation of the granted citizenship.


#158

Also gaining Taiwan’s ‘full citizens rights’ is not so simple as just renouncing original citizenship and gaining Taiwan citizenship . There’s a FURTHER residence requirement of one to five years that is a PAIN IN THE ASS for no bloody reason whatsoever!
They issue you a temporary passport (and which immigration officials admit to me is not really a passport at all) and you are various NOT supposed to travel out of the country or if you do you are supposed to use this ‘not really a passport’ which is not accepted by most countries . The whole naturalisation process is pathetic , they don’t even ask you to learn anything about taiwans laws or cultures etc.

It would be interesting to know if there any other countries that invented such a jack ass rule (related to the fact that citizenship of itself is not really useful in Taiwan).


#159

As the immigration/residency system is getting transformed, there is certainly a struggle going on, between the old logic (still in place) focusing on blood ties (Chinese ancestry, marriage to a citizen in Taiwan) and security (tense relations with the PRC) AND the new logic (the need to attract and retain professional and other talent). The incoherence you and others are experiencing seems to me to be a sign that the contradictions of these competing logics (old and new) are still not resolved. In short, welcome to Taiwan! : D

On the plus side, we have seen with the work done by Forward Taiwan and other groups that things can be changed if folks complain and–crucially–get organized.

Guy


#160

I already have given up my application simply unworkable for a business person.
Fine for third world immigrants who don’t need to travel outside of Taiwan for YEARS.

The whole process is pathetic the main question asked of naturalised people simply being have you exited in the last year?

If not go to apply ID.

If exited you must wait further years. Sorry.
It’s a joke it doesn’t take into account anything about tax paid or previous residence etc.


#161

I would urge you to let them know how shameful and embarrassing these regulations are. Tell the NIA officials! They are not (at least the ones I’ve met in the Taipei City office) cretins or old school racial nationalists. Many of them want to help. If we push for change, it can happen. I’ve got stories I could share about how I have seen this happen over the years. Do not give up!

Guy


#162

Here’s one: