It looks as though France is going to say “non” to the EU Constitution, and since it requires all 25 members to ratify it for the constitution to go into effect, it looks like this could spell the end for a “Greater Europe.” In addition to that, the Dutch look like they may be saying no to the EU Constitution as well, and Schroeder in Germany is in big trouble. I guess the European community’s hopes for becoming a counter-balance to US power has run out of steam and is collapsing in on itself. Oh well …
It’s kind of pity that the EU constitution actually stands for some great value in the field of Human Rights. However, it’s also satiric that Chirac and Schroeder who urge on the passing of the EU constitution are equally urging on the lifting of arms embargo. :s
What a twisted world…
The idea of a Europe, independant and strong, cooperating with US as both are democracies, was appealing to me. This was the idea of Germanies chief of gov. in the 80s/90s.
But the Gaullist Chirac (Gaullism mainly means fighting anglo-saxon influence in Europe) and his little companion Schroeder highjacked the idea and were leading the EU into confrontation with US for the sake of confrontation - and making it a high tech weapon shop for China.
So what now? Will UK get the key of the EU? Which would mean, they do nothing about it.
Will a conservatively ruled Germany balance the power in Europe again, so the EU gets back to the original idea?
EU can exist even on the base of the Nizza contract, but … not really for long.
Well, it’s not only the French voting “non” on the issue … but the Dutch may very well vote “no” on the constitution as well, Sweden is considering pulling out all together, and the Brits are considering not even voting on the constitution if France votes against it. Looks like the collapse of the EU to me.
The EU will not collapse nor would such a collapse be in anyone’s interests including the US.
What I would like to see is a more responsive, democratic EU that is less concerned with centralization of power both economic and political and one that is less concerned with setting itself up as a separate power in confrontation with the US and its goals. Freeing Europe from the statism and socialism of the failed policies of Germany and especially France would return a vibrancy to the continent, making it more capable and willing to assist the US in policing the world and providing prosperity and stability to even greater areas.
Do not therefore wish the EU will fail. Rather hope that it will reform and get itself back to where it needs to be. The future is with Thatcherite and Reaganite reform not Gaullist statism or German welfare socialism or Belgian bureaucracy. Look to the reforms in Eastern Europe for inspiration. Let’s hope those trends wash over the Western part of the continent as well.
[quote=“fred smith”]The EU will not collapse nor would such a collapse be in anyone’s interests including the US.
What I would like to see is a more responsive, democratic EU that is less concerned with centralization of power both economic and political and one that is less concerned with setting itself up as a separate power in confrontation with the US and its goals. Freeing Europe from the statism and socialism of the failed policies of Germany and especially France would return a vibrancy to the continent, making it more capable and willing to assist the US in policing the world and providing prosperity and stability to even greater areas.
Do not therefore wish the EU will fail. Rather hope that it will reform and get itself back to where it needs to be. The future is with Thatcherite and Reaganite reform not Gaullist statism or German welfare socialism or Belgian bureaucracy. Look to the reforms in Eastern Europe for inspiration. Let’s hope those trends wash over the Western part of the continent as well.[/quote]
Hopefully the EU will fail, it is a discredited organisation much like the UN.
As for helping the US in the policing aspect, until the US realises there are others in the world rather than just themselves in regard to policy, then the US can foot the entire bill.
Ah but your tax dollars (British) are already helping us a great deal Traveller. haha
Do you think that the US has failed to consult your nation on any number of policies? Do you think that if the UN and EU are failed organizations that we need to include them more? I think that you are being a bit inconsistent here.
[quote=“fred smith”]Ah but your tax dollars (British) are already helping us a great deal Traveller. haha
Do you think that the US has failed to consult your nation on any number of policies? Do you think that if the UN and EU are failed organizations that we need to include them more? I think that you are being a bit inconsistent here.[/quote]
Fred, hardly, you are the ones that based your right to invade Iraq on UN resolutions, then failed to abide by the uN decisions and went your own way. Both are failed institutions that i would like to see disappear, but until then they are in place and therefore require communication with, so no, there is no inconsistency, but i do appreciate how that might confuse some.
The EU will not fail if the constitution is not approved. Yo…there is an EU now without the aforementioned constitution. There will be one after.
I believe that if the constitution is not passed, it will promote some introspection on the direction of the EU before the Eu will “fail.” Perhaps it will cause the powers that be to consider a constitution that has the people of the EU more firmly in mind. One of the biggest criticisms I have heard coming out of Europe about the document (please note: I am by no means an expert and only have a passing interest in the subject), is that it is that many Europeans see it as a daunting document that is not easily understandable. Would you blindly vote “yes” to a constitution that you can’t understand?
The EU will continue regardless of whether this constitution fails. It may be a good opportunity for a closer look at why so many Europeans are dissatisfied with the constitution and the responsiveness of the EU government. This may be for the best and will result in the long run in a stronger, better Europe and that’s something we all want.
First the French and now the Dutch, is the vaunted EU falling apart? Should I sell my euros?
The mind boggles.
[quote]Dead and buried
Leader, Thursday June 2, 2005
Guardian
"Volatile times now lie ahead on the European front and it would be unwise of this government, seeking to turn a crisis into an opportunity, to crow too loudly about the moment being ripe for a British reform agenda. Tony Blair faces huge problems running the presidency for six months from July 1, not least from a wounded Jacques Chirac. Europe’s leaders have to find ways to reconnect with disgruntled citizens. If France’s vote dealt the treaty a critical blow, the Dutch have now delivered the coup de grace."b[/b] guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858, … 10,00.html[/quote]
I understand your irritation and exasperation. All this is necessary and when Europe wakes up and smells the coffee thing may be better. Rather than deal with the whole mess of nations and their conflicting interests, we need to target a few to work with us closely to ensure regional peace and security. Those key nations are Britain and Germany. France has never cooperated with us. They left NATO in 1966 and we should have kept them from coming back in. Our stupidity.
The other key nations that we should be targeting are Ukraine and perhaps Turkey. We have some major repair work to do with the latter, but I suppose we could settle for a Romania or Bulgaria. We do not really need anyone else, really. Each of these would be a security anchor in its respective region. To pretend Germany does not matter would be unwise. It does. It could do so much more. It is my eternal disappointment that Germany always fails to live up to its destiny (or rather the one I would like to see for it).
Bob Honest:
I suppose this paragraph was the one you had in mind when you thought of me. haha
[quote]Von Leuten wie David Frum beispielsweise, der f
Fred, I’m sorry for this personal attack …you have too much faith.
Europe may one day wake up and smell the coffee but we won’t be around to see it. The disease that infects Europe has been left untreated for too long for us to hope for a quick fix.
I think dealing with a united Europe could be more of a headache than dealing with a divided one. I honestly can’t see them working together in an efficient manner. They are going to spend so much time squabbling internally that by the time they come to a resolution the problem will be solved.
I do agree with that we should target certain countries for a strategic relationship. But I think it is important to ask the question: “What can they for us?” “What do we get out of the relationship?” I am not interested in being “friends” with a country but I am interested in being “allied” with countries. Either they step up to the plate and handle their fair and equal share or keep their mouths shut and carry our luggage. Either way would be fine with me.
I reckon the German clergy avatars could be the source of the confusion, what with robbi666 represented by Carlos “Islam is a religion based on war and conquest” Lehmann (Bishop of Mainz, chairman of the Congregation of the German Bishops), and bob_honest by Joey “Don’t call me Cardinal” Ratzinger (Former Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, and now has some other important title as I recall).
[quote=“robi666”]sorry hobbes
it is Kardinal Lehmann not Bishop[/quote]
I think he might be a Cardinal, but also be the Bishop of Mainz (sort of like how the Pope gets to be both Pope and also the Bishop of Rome). Could be wrong though – these guys often have lots of titles, so it’s tough to keep up.
