Sigh… it’s distressing that people always look for the problems rather than making constructive suggestions. There aren’t too many countries whose citizens do like to be told what to do by foreigners… doesn’t mean that foreigners can’t make a difference, or that they shouldn’t try. If I’m injured on my scooter I will sue the person who hurts me for everything they have. Now if every foreigner did that, or belonged to an organisation that did that for them, and the Taiwanese knew that, don’t you think it might make a difference? Maybe not, but it’s worth a go. I’d also like to think that doing something positive in the way of education might help too.
Making a change starts with one person making one small step. So how about contributing positively, making CONSTRUCTIVE criticisms or go somewhere else? I believe change can be made, and I know that some other people will think the same way. That’s the people I want to talk to here, not just people who troll forums and try and knock down people’s ideas.
I think the traffic situation is effect, not cause. To make any real difference, you’d have to attack the causes:
- People genuinely do not give a shit whether strangers live or die
- Responsibility exists only in the sense of “damnit, I have to pay”. If you don’t get caught or can weasel out of it, you are not responsible for it.
- Laws exist, and sometimes once you get to court there’s even Rule Of Law, but until then there is no concept of it
- The police are not police in the same sense as ours. They have quotas of very specific things to hit, and are wildly overburdened. Many attempts to change this have already failed.
And sure, these are all generalisations of the worst kind, and it’s only a small percentage of people around here who are actually like that. Then again, really it’s only a small percentage of people who drive really dangerously (I suspect that the percentages would be eerily similar – they are the same people).
Things seem to be changing over generations. Perhaps in forty years it’ll be better.
well, have you asked around to see if people would support you. and by people, I mean locals. because seems to me, lotsa locals are passive, fatalistic folk who don’t believe change can happen, and certainly not by ordinary folk.
Maybe you ought to outline a plan, and see if you can get a petition going, then meetings, then parades/protests. But ditto Sandman here, cuz you need to motivate the Taiwanese to help themselves. And if they’re not willing, you better move on.
I knew some people from Taiwan before I ever came over here. They would say that i have to be careful walking on the streets in Taiwan. And I would say yeah, I’ll be careful. But they would say, no, you have to be very careful. Then they told me a lot of horror stories and how the rules only apply if there is a cop around. And even then it would be iffy. So they had me pretty scared before I ever came here. I think a little education would be helpful.
Doc998, you are either very young or fresh off the ship, or both. While your enthusiasm is admirably, I think you won’t go far trying to change anything in “the big way”. Try to change the people around you first by setting good examples and without being a “stinky fart” like the locals call those who know it all better.
If you want to start a grass root movement of a kind, you need a good idea, a really good idea, that eventually catches the attention of the media and attracts local people with some influence. Than you can change something in a big way.
You could for example gather a group of people and go to places where people drive recklessly on a regular bases, take photos or videos, and send them to local authorities or the media, or post them on youtube. That would be a good start to make people aware.
Most of us have been affected to some extent in the last few years. So I think it’s natural to try to do something positive. I would say start small and work up.
Maybe a good acronym would help.
EARF Expats against road fatalities
FARTS Foreigners advocating road and traffic safety
EFSD Expats for safe driving
FAST Foreigners advocating safe travel
TECFTS Taiwan expat community for traffic safety
RATS I forgot what this one stood for
EARTH Expats against road and traffic hazzards
Ha… well, I am neither young nor fresh off the ship. Without wanting to make this about me, I’ll let you know that I have considerable life experience. I’m well educated (doctorate level) and have lived in Taiwan for well over a year. So… I’m neither very young, naiive nor very stupid by any tradtional measure of the word. I also don’t want to force people to change and I don’t think I know it all better.
This is about one guy trying to gather people around him to try and come up with solutions to what is clearly a problem. If you’re not interested in trying to make a change, that’s fine, don’t participate. But if you are, what this forum is about is getting people to indicate if they want to get involved or not. I want to save peoples lives on Taiwanese roads, and I’ll start with foreigners because those are the people I can communicate most easily with. Additionally, I want to “target” the Taiwanese as the problem, because they’re the ones who are doing the killing. If they don’t like it: tough.
Here is what I want to do: if someone, through negligent or dangerous driving, kills or injures someone who is willing to join this group, then I want to make sure than person is sued for every cent they have and I want it done publically and noisely. Additionally, I think that a large ad in a nation wide newspaper announcing our intention to do this would probably generate additional publicity in itself. Do you think that would catch more media attention and make people think twice, or do you think putting a couple of videos on YouTube will?
I’m not just a reactive or negative person, so if we can couple this with a lot of good ideas for public education/awareness, then great.
my own family tell me to shut up when i mention the folly of driving with the two year old sitting on mum’s lap in the front seat, in front of the airbag, or the fact that there are no seatbelt buckles in the back, or that the baby really should be placed in a capsule securely attached, and that seven people in one car are probably a few too many, or that perhaps the driver should hand the phone over to the passenger while we’re doing 120 on the expressway.
so good luck, but I am not going to do more than the usual public berating and humiliating of specific infringers who cross my path while I’m cycling. some passers-by do actually applaud, and that seems to be working well enough for me as a stress reliever. I have no doubt that there is absolutely zero effect on the driving habits of the belittled one, though.
now, as for changing habits en masse, by a campaign as you outline here, good luck, but beware… you may in fact become a target of lots of unwelcome attention, and perhaps even have your visa revoked.
Ever see road safety adverts here on billboards or TV – NO
Ever see a kid or the two of them with motorcycle helmets – NO
Ever see a legislator fighting in the LY for road safety – NO……it doesn’t win votes or prove allegiance
People accept that you may be killed (not them though; they’re either too smart or lucky) on the road
Scandals and silly news make for better headlines. What would be more interesting in a story, the fact a person was killed by a bus, or the fact that the bus driver was drinking whiskey. The story would then be about whiskey (and would have a half an hour segment about Scotch and Brandy.) The person’s death would be a lead in. Its secondary or irrelevant that the bus driver killed someone, or there was a victim
Ever see ambulance chasing TV crews in hospitals. They need tears and screaming and anger. Again ever see a follow up on any of these stories. Nope and why’s that? Cause people don’t care, and 15 channels of 24 hour news, needs short easy to understand visual stories to keep the masses watching
I think the rule in Taiwan is watch out for yourself and assume the other is out to cheat you or kill you. Perhaps promote that to foreigners
Whatever. That ad’ll cost you around NT$200,000. Per day. What will it say? I’ve given you some VERY constructive advice. “You think those groups aren’t doing any good?” That’s because you don’t know shit, by your own admission.
Why should anybody be interested in what you think when you already admit that you know bugger all about what you want to do?
Especially when you consider anyone offering advice contrary to your perceived notion of what the situation is to be “just a naysayer?”
Get a clue. Sue people? You mean you currently DON’T? Or WOULDN’T? Are you REALLY so utterly clueless? You REALLY think others are as utterly clueless as you? Think again.
I think perhaps it should be:
“If you don’t like it: tough.”
[quote]Ever see road safety adverts here on billboards or TV – NO
Ever see a kid or the two of them with motorcycle helmets – NO
Ever see a legislator fighting in the LY for road safety – NO……it doesn’t win votes or prove allegiance [/quote]
Q1. Yes. Many. Take a look at a bus stop near you, for example.
Q2. Yes. Its the norm, at least in Taipei. So much so that they’re now noticeable by their absence.
Q3. Yes. Many, many times. And yes, it DOES win votes.
And I’m sorry for being snippy to Doc998. It just pisses me right off when someone makes a "Hey! Why don’t we… " post, and then gets bent out of shape when someone suggests that, GASP! it’s been thought of and done before, or that there are obvious pitfalls, or whatever, and immediately tries to paint that person in a negative light. It’s fucking bullshit, is what it is.
I offered you some very constructive points for getting your message across. You choose to ignore them, thanks to your over-12-months experience of living in Taiwan. So go ahead. Knock yourself out. Maybe you could form a union.
You’re more likely to die riding on a motorbike in America than in Taiwan.
Off the top of my head…I know of about 7 foreigners who have been in serious/fatal accidents. Of them 4 were drunk, 2 were riding late at night on the weekend (when all the gangster wannabes start racing), and the other 2 were just riding nicely during the day minding their own business.
So if foreigners stop drinking and hanging out at the bars late at night. We could reduce our own accidents by a fairly large percentage.
In America alchohol is involved in over 80% of motorcycle fatalities. Just thought I’d throw that out there.
But I do agree that there should be much more serious penalties for cars passing on blind corners on two lane roads. There’s not much a biker can do to prevent an accident when faced with that.
I was under the impression that if you have a PhD you have extended work rights on TW. If so, does that mean the good Doctor could start a campaign much more easily than a standard ARC holder? That being said, only one years experience of being here AND the added bonus of trying to convince country folk (as opposed to city folks) about changing something that to them does not need fixing… Not sure you would be successful.
Was also wondering has the OP ever been to the stretch of road in question? Personally, the fact its so dangerous there stops me from visiting Wulai and a few mates I have dotted around down in the area. Telling this to a local will be met with shrug.
Yess…yesss. [rubbing palms]
That’s it. Don’t let the foreigner have access to alcohol. We haven’t tried that approach.
Make them all dry! muahahaha.
And then… don’t make them smoke.
See what happens then. Yess… thazzit.
well, we’d all up sticks and go to dubai. i hear the sex is good there too, as well as the champagne, and the salaries.
[quote=“Jack Burton”]Yess…yesss. [rubbing palms]
That’s it. Don’t let the foreigner have access to alcohol. We haven’t tried that approach.
Make them all dry! muahahaha.
And then… don’t make them smoke.
See what happens then. Yess… thazzit.[/quote]
That would not be practicable. Stopping foreigners from being allowed to drive, though… that’s been mooted more than once by legislators over the past couple of decades. Of course, that would be the first thing they’d come up with should Doc998 actually get as far as that with his campaign. As he would no doubt be aware if he had even the faintest glimmer of an idea what he was talking about.
You just got to laugh sometimes… except it is so serious…
Go For It Doc. Maybe it will be their life you save one day.
:eh:
While I think your commitment to improving road safety is commendable, I also believe that your approach sounds highly antagonistic and condescending. It would be far more effective to engage this issue from local avenues of approach. Forcibly ramming alien concepts about ‘safety-first’ are not going to go over very well. At best, one will be ignored. At worst, one will be forcibly told in no uncertain terms that this is NOT the West, and that it’s a foreigner’s obligation to adapt to local conditions, not the other way around.
It might be wise to recall the fear & loathing that broke out amongst the local populace when the police tried to enforce the laws regarding child seats, seatbelts, child placement (front or rear seats). If many Taiwanese are going to fuss about, bicker with, & dispute leglisation that is designed to protect their OWN offspring, how much of a rat’s ass do you think many of them would care about protecting the rights of other motorists, cyclists, & pedestrians?
That said, if you can find some local politicans that are willing to hurl footwear and/or furniture in the name of this issue, count me in. I’'ll volunteer to be on their security details.
I wish you all the best with your venture, yet it all whiffs of Sisyphus & his rock.
Hmm yeah OP you lost me on the insistence on taking the law suit route. I think a public awareness campaign (which by the way if done well, and with the right help, nobody would have to know who made it) would be a better start.