Ethical dilemma

:laughing: Thanks guys,

I saw the dude today (before reading your replies) and he has apparently taken no further action. I think that like most of us he has the feeling that it is not a good idea, for a variety of reasons.

:smiling_imp: But, just for shits and giggles, let me be argumentative.

If she’s past puberty then her body at least is more or less ready, and the ‘experimentation’ is the natural result of natural processes. Yeah, go ahead and teach your kids that sex is bad, nasty, dangerous. Let’s pretend it doesn’t happen, and see how they handle having to confront the reality in later life.

When is a girl really emotionally ready? There are plenty of older women, and not just in this country, who have severe problems. I don’t accept that having achieved the age of 18, 28, or even 48, somehow magically makes a woman ‘emotionally ready’. Especially not here. Some of you may be married to strong stable creatures, but there’s no shortage of clinging, eager-to-please, single twenty-somethings out there that don’t appear able to handle a ‘proper’ relationship.

True, man’s motives are rarely entirely ‘honourable’ either. Again it’s hormones. Nature tells us to do these things and we sometimes argue against them because some or other authority has told us that they’re ‘bad’. But sometimes we do them anyway.

On the other hand, a teenage male is more likely to be lost in the red clouds of testosterone than someone who has slowed down a little with age. Maturity (sometimes) teaches respect for others, and appreciation of attributes other than the physical. Speaking personally, much as I love my rumpy-pumpy, I’m not looking for one-night stands and I kind of resent the assumption that ALL men are ONLY interested in sex and nothing else.

To put it crudely, young bucks know little more than the biological imperative to mate and have a tendency to view girls as ‘targets’. An older guy is more likely to take the time to make a young girl enjoy and feel good about what nature is telling her to do. I’m pretty sure I’ve become a better and more considerate lover as I have grown up.

If a girl is naturally staring to experiment sexually then is it necessarily bad for her emotional well-being and self-esteem to do so with someone that she feels attracted to, and that would treat her well. Or should she lose her cherry to some football jock in an alley somewhere?

Or do you hold with that crap about no sex outside of lifelong marriage?

Of course, these thoughts come from a western perspective and I really have no idea how TW teens conduct their personal lives. I imagine that things are a lot different here from how they are in our home countries.

This from the USA recently:

(full report here)

Can’t see it happening here! I mean, when would they find time?:wink:

Finally, I must say, and not just to provoke an argument, that girls are often badly treated by men and that early sexual experiences have a profound impact on later attitudes. Speaking as someone with`more than one close female friend who sees herself as ‘cheap’ or ‘easy’ because that is what she has been taught, I have pretty strong feelings about this.

Disclaimer: I have never dated any of my students and don’t anticipate being in a position where teen-sex is an option in the future. The above arguments are purely hypothetical in nature.

Age of consent?

I thought it was 18 in Taiwan.

18 in California.

I believe you can be married at 15 in Mississipi.

16 in the UK, unless you’re a gay male in which case you have to be 21. (Or did that change?) There are apparently no consent laws governing lesbians because Queen Victoria refused to believe that such things went on.

Age of consent: 16 in Taiwan. 16 in Mississippi.

For marriage without consent in MS, 15 for females, 17 for males.
In my experience, a lot of people take advantage of the low marriage age limit in MS.

That’s a neat trick if you can manage it. Won’t they resent it after a while though? :laughing:

I think I meant without parental consent. Marriage without consent is only allowed if the girl is mighty purty and you reaalllly fancy her.

Er, TMWC, have you ever read Vladimir Nabakov’s Lolita? Perhaps you should. Humbert Humbert using some quite similar arguments to justify his seduction of his ‘nymphet’ that you just used. And quite frankly it’s rather creepy for a middle-aged guy to be seen chasing girls young enough to be his daughter - you can try to rationalize your lusts all you want, that you’re a “better lover” for your nymphet than her male peers, but that’s all they are - rationalizations. The rationalizations of a withered old man lusting after fresh young flesh :blush: All those middle-aged businessmen tourists strolling around developing southeast Asia with local ‘companions’ bought for with Euros and $ probably make the same kind of arguments to themselves in their minds.

Bottom line: some things just ain’t right, bub. Go take a cold shower. Go find a woman your own age and in your own league. The minor leagues ain’t no place for a man your age to be playing in.

WHAT???!???

More please…

June 29 New York Times: “Victims Say Japan Ignores Sex Crimes Committed by Teachers”

[quote] Two years ago, a 16-year-old high school girl who lived near here was hospitalized with a high fever. After doctors found that she had an acute case of genital herpes, she told her parents that her teacher had had sex with her.

When approached by the parents, the teacher denied the claim, warning them that their daughter would be expelled if they reported him.

Experts say molestation and statutory rape are commonplace in schools across Japan, and that victims rarely come forward. To do so would violate a host of powerful social conventions, said Akiko Kamei, a retired teacher who is the country’s only nationally known expert in classroom sexual abuse.

“In Japan there is a rape myth, which says that the victim of a rape is always to blame,” Ms. Kamei said. “Moreover, women are told that if you suffer molestation or groping, you have to be ashamed. If you talk about it to anyone else, you are going to be tainted for the rest of your life.”

Beyond that, even when they are identified and caught, molesters rarely receive more than a slap on the wrist.

Speaking at a public symposium, a member of Parliament, Seiichi Ota, recently made light of reports of gang rapes at a Tokyo university. “Boys who commit group rape are in good shape,” Mr. Ota said. “I think they are rather normal. Whoops, I shouldn’t have said that.” (The legislator’s comments were carried in many Japanese newspapers.)

Recently, however, the public tolerance for rape has begun to change as a handful of victims or their families have pressed charges against classroom molesters. The mother of the girl infected with herpes, for example, went to the police, which led not only to the dismissal of the 49-year-old teacher, but to a one-year prison sentence for him as well.

In an interview about the incident, the mother requested anonymity, as do most people involved in such cases. She said that if her identity were revealed, she would be ostracized and could even lose her job.

As if to underline the family’s concern, the daughter has left Japan, fleeing the taunts of fellow students and the cold shoulder of teachers at her former school…[/quote]

How old are you that you so idotic that you need to even contemplate this? Come anywhere near my daughters with that “dilemma” and I’ll fucking string you up myself.

Chou

Er, TMWC, have you ever read Vladimir Nabakov’s Lolita? Perhaps you should. Humbert Humbert using some quite similar arguments to justify his seduction of his ‘nymphet’ that you just used. And quite frankly it’s rather creepy for a middle-aged guy to be seen chasing girls young enough to be his daughter - you can try to rationalize your lusts all you want, that you’re a “better lover” for your nymphet than her male peers, but that’s all they are - rationalizations. The rationalizations of a withered old man lusting after fresh young flesh :blush: All those middle-aged businessmen tourists strolling around developing southeast Asia with local ‘companions’ bought for with Euros and $ probably make the same kind of arguments to themselves in their minds.

Bottom line: some things just ain’t right, bub. Go take a cold shower. Go find a woman your own age and in your own league. The minor leagues ain’t no place for a man your age to be playing in.[/quote]

But surely you are just moralizing, in the same fashion that the dirty old man rationalizes. Why is it wrong or bad ? That is the crux of the matter. Sure, there is a gut feeling that it isn’t quite right. But why ?

I knew a girl when I was at school who was gagging to get laid when she was about 14 or 15 (can’t remember - I think she asked everybody except me) and eventually somebody helped her out. The guy was 19 or 20. She was much happier afterwards. (I’m not making this up!) Was that guy wrong ? Would he have been wrong if he was 30 ? Now, I know a handful of girls who started bonking around 13 or 14 and now in their 30s do not regret it. And it was always with a boy/man a good few years older.

Bonking the teacher though is a different matter. You’ve got to worry about advantage being taken. Especially here where girls are children right into their 20s.

Actually, this isn’t a very nice topic. Think I’ll leave it at that. Toodle-pip.

I think the laws they have in certain countries which are lenient in the case of youngsters experimenting with each other, and hard on adults who get involved are the best way to go. There will always be exceptions where the girl gets something out of the older man relationship, but in general I would imagine most would look back and feel at least slightly used.

Teachers are there to teach, not to fornicate with the students. It is not a perk of the job to seduce young girls, primarily (I would imagine) by lying through your teeth to them. Of course some of them are attractive, and I’m sure some of them would be “up for it”, but it’s just one of those lines you don’t cross. And if you do (and I’m talking about a girl of legal age) be prepared to lose your job and have your friends all look at you sideways, and then she’ll leave you anyway for a guy with hair and no beer belly. Bit of a risk, eh ?!

According to a taiwanese friend… the age of consent is 18. But you can get married at 16, and if you’re married you are legal.

I got a dumb look and a puzzled answer. Is it the real legal answer?

Fucking dirty numptys deserve to get their balls ripped off. “Heeyyy! Beastie, beastie, beastie, better count yer nuts cos we’re comin’ tae get you!”
Pedophiles tend not to have much of a time of it in jail.

Something that I find interesting about this thread is the way that people respond as if I’m saying ‘do you mind if I get on top of your daughter?’ This is a very emotive subject, probably rightly so, but I have twice stated fairly clearly that this is not something I am personally contemplating.

The person who had the opportunity come his way has also passed it up and it turns out that she is an ex-student rather than a current one, if that makes any difference to you. I do agree with Hexuan about the role of teachers (because those argiments make rational sense) though and, as I said, I have never dated any of my students.

The only teens in my life right now are only 12. Even if it were legal and socially acceptable, I still wouldn’t be interested. I tend to only sleep with people I find attractive, and I go with the majority here when it comes to people screwing kids.

I’m not trying to rationalise anything that I’m doing or planning. I’m trying to have a rational opinion rather than one that is simply emotional. So can you all leave the personal attacks out of this and ask yourselves why you are reacting like this?

I have heard arguments to the effect that men get more uptight over these things because they don’t want anyone doing to their daghters what they have done or contemplated doing to other girls. I don’t know how true that is, but it does seem as if most of the rules governing sexual behaviour have been made by men anxious to ‘protect’ women.

Ursula LeGuin said it rather nicely:

[quote]It wasn’t to preserve my ‘virtue’ that I ran!
What’s a nymph like me to do with something that belongs to men?[/quote]

The female forumosans are being remarkably silent on this issue. What do they think? When does a girl have the right to choose for herself? When does ‘protection’ from people who seem to know better than the law in most of the western world amount to anything other than interference?

[quote=“sandman”]
Pedophiles tend not to have much of a time of it in jail.[/quote]

“Paedophiles”. Jesus Sandy. :wink:

Pedophiles, paedophiles, whatever. All I’m saying is, watch your back in the big hoose if you’ve a penchant for painted toenails and stilettoes. :wink: