In responce to Bu Li Ens responce to “Raghead” in the Open Forum, I would like to see the same rules applied to all these words which could be mis - construed as racist
Yank
Red Neck
Pomme
Limey
Frog
Kraut
Drag
Queer
Aussie
kiwi
Cannuck
ABC
CBC
BBC
Afro
Anglo
Let’s have a nice sanitised, colourless, bland environment to post in, incase we just happen to offend someone, somewhere on this earth.
Fairness for all, I think.
The key here is “could be”. For certain words it depends on contexts.
The vast majority of words in your list are used non-offensively most of the time, and many of them would never be used as slurs.
Brian
Raghead is obviously an ethnic slur. It is no defence to say something like “in the sentence ‘fuck those Al-Qaeda ragheads’ I was only referring to thos in Al-Qaeda as ragheads”.
Certainly terrorists are deservng of hateful speech, but in using an ehtic slur you are extending that hatred to those who happen to share the same ethnicity as the terrorists in question.
If a black man in America was guilty of a horrenderous crime, would I be justified in saying “give the murdering nigger the death penalty”, because there’s no need to be polite with horrible criminals? Of course not.
Brian
Rag head is always an offensive term. It is always meant to be offensive and it is always interpreted to be offensive. That isn’t true of a lot of the other words in your list Dangermouse. Canucks often call themselves Canucks for example. I doubt that muslims ever call themselves ragheads.
add:
HillBilly
white trash
trailer trash
pig boinker
goat roper
hayseed
scrotum yodeler
to the list.
Raghead is not always an offensive slur.
Your’re wrong, bob. Certainly in Mosely and Alum Rock in Birmingham there are stores named “Raghead Records” and “Raghead Sports,” both run by persons of ethnic minorities in an area dominated by persons of ethnic minorities; namely Packistanis and Afghans.
Nigger is not always an offensive slur.
What? You mean Arabs or Sikhs or someone use the word to talk about themselves? Or there’s some other context I’m missing?
Of course it’s always an ethnic slur.
Even if there’s some obscure situation in which it could be used inoffensively (a raghead doll???), the context in which the word was used today - that which promted this thread - was certainly not meant in that way.
Brian
Read my above post. Raghead in the name of an asian run store, advertising to asians in an area predominatly occupied by asians?
It’s only offensive when it’s convenient. Don’t give me any of this PC Bullshit BuLiEn, it won’t wash with me.
Forgive me for using that expression yesterday. I was trying to be as offensive as I could be because I was as offended as I’ve been for quite some time.
From now on I’ll stick to “silly-billies” but you’ll all know exactly what I mean.
I’ll bear that in mind next time some Arabs want to ironically use an ethnic slur against themselves to promote their business on Forumosa or something.
You’re not seriously saying your use of the word was in the same class are you?
And it pisses me off you accusing me of being PC. It’s not about being PC. It’s about not being a racist bigot. If I got upset at you calling a Taiwanese a gook, would you accuse me of being PC too?
I can understand why an intelligent person might use an ethic slur, out of anger, in the emotion of the moment when his country ahs being attacked. But why one would later try and argue that it is not a slur, or that it’s OK to use racist terms is beyond me.
Brian
How in the f@#k is Aussie, racist or not PC???
Sandman -
I have consistently referred to myself as a “Scottish/HillBilly” through out my life.
Not only is it accurate, it is fun as heck to try to explain to foreigners.
I certainly take no offense at all in its use.
There is a class difference in ‘Redneck’ though.
Redneck usually denotes a slightly lower standard of culture.
Although having a red neck by virtue of honest labor is no dishonor.
Same as having dirty finger nails because you work with your hands. I can’t fault a man for that.
It is a conundrum.
Your’re confusing racism with Politically correctness - two different kettles of fish.
Gook is a direct derogatory term. Raghead is a term derived from a stereotype.
In parts of Britain it is used between groups of asians as a non-offensive term.
In Britain, Nigger is used freely among blacks as they refer to one another. The useage is not derogatory. (Unless the word is uttered by a “White Fuck” (as we are affectionately reffered to as) when it is deemed as racist).
It’s all semantics. Here’s the real question, when we have over 50,000 words to use at our disposal why bother with ones that degrade the person, and not the behavior?
[quote]Gook is a direct derogatory term. Raghead is a term derived from a stereotype.
[/quote]
Are you saying that Raghead is acceptable because it’s derived from a stereotype. What a lot of bullshit. They’re both racist terms.
What is ‘slant’ then? I guess it’s OK, because it’s derived from a stereotype (of slanty eyes).
Brian
Well, I’m afraid if a certain minority uses the term freely among themselves in reference to themselves, then they have no right to cry racist when an “outsider” uses the term. Raghead and Nigger included.
[quote]How in the f@#k is Aussie, racist or not PC???
[/quote]
The same as “Pakki” is racist. Although it is short for Pakistani and “Aussie” is short for Australian, Pakki is for some reason, racist.
No, but if a Brit, Aussie, Kiwi or Yank committed a horrendous crime, it would be perfectly acceptable to say “Give that murdering Brit the death penalty.”
Something’s wrong somewhere.
[quote=“Dangermouse”]Well, I’m afraid if a certain minority uses the term freely among themselves in reference to themselves, then they have no right to cry racist when an “outsider” uses the term. Raghead and Nigger included.
[quote]How in the f@#k is Aussie, racist or not PC???
[/quote]
The same as “Pakki” is racist. Although it is short for Pakistani and “Aussie” is short for Australian, Pakki is for some reason, racist.
No, but if a Brit, Aussie, Kiwi or Yank committed a horrendous crime, it would be perfectly acceptable to say “Give that murdering Brit the death penalty.”
Something’s wrong somewhere.[/quote]Back to point 1, Aussie is not racist in the slighest, mate. You’re well misinformed.
After living in the UK with my Taiwanese girlfriend, I understand that it is perfectly acceptable for some people to greet others on the streets there with descriptions relating to their ethnicity and the like, such as "hey fucking 'Chinks
All black people who would refer to others as niggers should be considered ignorant fools with very little respect for others or themselves.
Some just happen to be good at rapping.
It is not a matter of “well, if they can call themselves that, then so can I…”; it’s a matter of being respectful to other humans beings and not degrading them as being anything less than that.
DM:
Race vs. Nationality
The bottom line is that most people consider derogatory racist labels to be far more offensive and hateful than derogatory national labels. You may not agree with that (indeed it sounds like perhaps you do not), but the fact remains that this distinction is the key consideration at play in most of your examples. People have all kinds of reasons for that they may tend to dislike people from a certain country. These reasons will generally be based on stereotypes that are often false, but they are not racist. Aussie, Kiwi, Yank etc. are all based on the nation one comes from, not one’s race. Even a more derogatory term like “frog” would not be subject to the same level of scrutiny, because it has nothing to do with race.
The term “Paki” is clearly more about race than about nationality
You raise an interesting example with the word “Paki”, and I think this example illustrates the point. There are, no doubt, some very small number of blond-haired, blue-eyed Pakistani citizens. Do you think that the word “Paki” would be used to refer to these rare Pakistani citizens if someone saw them on the street? I submit that if you are honest with yourself you will answer in the negative. How about someone from India who immigrates to the UK? Any chance that person might be called a “Paki” by some drunk idiot on the street? Of course they might (and are). Why? Because it is a derogatory term that is used as an insult against people who have certain physiological traits that set them apart visually.
An Explanation, Not an Argument
To be clear, I am not trying to persuade you here that derogatory terms referring to race are inherently worse than derogatory terms referring to nationality (I happen to think that they are, but that’s its own debate). I’m just explaining that most people do feel that way. This distinction explains why, for example, people can write books about why they hate the French, or why they hate Americans, and those books are accepted in mainstream society, whereas a book about “Why I hate black people” would never be touched by a mainstream publisher. Most relevantly for our discussion here – this race vs. nationality distinction is the reason that racial slurs are specifically prohibited by the Forumosa Rules, and “country slurs” are not.