Etymology of shu4 'art; skill' (split from Jujitsu thread)

術 shu4 means an art, skill or method, and is in terms like wu3shu4 武術, martial arts, and yi4shu4 藝術, art (as in fine arts).

The character is 术 shu2 phonetic in the middle of 行 semantic.

术 (orig. pronounced shu2; the archaic form of 秫 shu2, a glutinous grain, perhaps millet or sorghum) depicts either the plant itself with grains shown (and one grain remaining in the modern version), or a person’s hand, with sticky grains adhering to it (depending on whose speculation you’re reading).

行 xing2/hang2 depicts a crossroads (intersection), and originally meant to walk, travel. It is semantic in 術 because 術 originally meant boulevard, and was later borrowed as a phonetic loan to represent the abstract idea ‘art; skill’.

The simplified form of 術 is just 术, from its phonetic element, and now pronounced shu4.

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[quote=“DoD”]to Dragonbones:
the part in the middle of 術 is not 术, it’s 朮. The former one is not a traditional character. It’s totally a new simplified character for 術. So 术 is shu4. 朮 is a traditional one. It’s pronouced as (WG: chou2, HP:zhou2) not shu2 as I know.[/quote]

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Thanks, DoD; you’re right in a way, but the answer is technically both.

First, 术 and 朮 are equivalent; they are alternate 隸定 li4ding4 renderings of the same seal form. You will find the graph under one form in some dictionaries and under the other form in others.

Yeah, I know it’s now usually calligraphically rendered 朮, especially still in Taiwan AFAIK, and I prefer that as it is closer to the seal form, but I couldn’t type that using shu2 in the MS IME, so I typed its available alternate form.

If you look up 术 in the Hanyu Da Zidian on p.484 you’ll find that it is indeed one 隸定 li4ding4 rendering of , and the primary (etymologically earliest and most important) pronunciation it gives is shu2.

Not exactly. 术 is a minute calligraphic variation (i.e., alternative li4ding4 rendering and structurally equivalent form) of the traditional 朮, and merely connects the ‘legs’ (roots) to the stalk, if indeed the structure is that of the plant as I suspect. As for being a new simplified character for 術, well, it’s the borrowing of a graph which existed before 術 did (as it must have, being the constituent phonetic of the latter compound). So I wouldn’t call it new, no. Also remember that some simplifications occurred thousands of years ago, and the PRC has merely resurrected some of them, so they’re not necessarily new. The simplified form 队 of 隊 dui4, team (which originally meant 墜 zhui4, to fall, basically resurrects the oracle bone form and is thus at least 3300 years old (although the OB form had three lumps on the 阜 left side, and the person was upside down, showing him falling from a cliff). That said, I don’t currently have evidence of 術 being simplified to its center component before this last century; I’ll have to look through the bronze and clerical script records for that.

Are you sure you don’t mean zhu2? For the purposes of modern speakers of Chinese and for Chinese medicine, you’d essentially then be partly right: according to my sources, it has three pronunciations, shu2 ‘glutinous grain’, zhu2 (not zhou2 AFAIK) ‘podophyllum versipelle (an herbal medicine plant); a kind of grass or herb’, and shu4, ‘simplified form of 術’. Since it is the original form of 秫 shu2 ‘glutinous millet’, and it provides the phonetic value of shu in 術 shu4 ‘art’, it was reasonable for me to so render it (as shu2) for etymologyical purposes, without going off into the other readings, but as a standalone graph, you’ll likely find it in Taiwanese dictionaries under zhu2 and in mainland dictionaries also under shu4 (as the simplified form). So Taiwanese will probably only know it as zhu2, while modern Chinese will know it as shu4 (and possibly also zhu2).

Thanks for reminding me about that, as I’ve now found it types as zhu2 in IME. :sunglasses:

To the OP, Maoman, I’m sure you’ll let us know if we haven’t provided quite ENOUGH information. :laughing:

Sorry, Dragonbones. you’re right. It’s chu2, zhu2.

You do so many studies. I totally agree you and thank you for telling me the origin of the character.
But you don’t have to trace back so long to know what standard writing is. Ministry of Education do the standardize work, and have a list for Taiwan traditional Chinese. We’ll consider it’s a 俗體字 if it’s a equivalent and it’ll be acceptable.

So for the very first, i said “ㄔ术于” is not right. it’s “ㄔ朮于”
I was wrong. but if you write like the later one, I’ll say you write prettier. That’s what we were taught in elementary school. :stuck_out_tongue:

maybe stop here till it’s splitted. :slight_smile:

No, no, shu2 and zhu2. :laughing: Type carefully! :stuck_out_tongue:

Well, my interest is in etymology, not in what a very recently created government’s ministry says should be standard. For the purpose of local students learning forms which are standardized for local educational and communication purposes, there’s nothing wrong with your following the Ministry of Education’s standardized forms, but that certainly doesn’t make them the only right form (or even right at all, in some cases). From an etymological, historical or calligraphic perspective, there will be instances where the MOE’s standardized form is nothing but agreement to write the same error, or agreement to write the same idiosyncratic choice of one of several perfectly valid variant forms. Since I’m not a local here and I didn’t go through the MOE’s ‘education’, I see no reason to prefer the choice of this particular ministry.

For example, the ministry may say you shouldn’t connect the 日 to the 正 in 是, but when I was learning to write characters by studying 魏碑 Wei stelae (early modern kai3shu1 from the Northern Wei) and 漢隸碑 Han stelae (Han dyn. clerical), I remember writing the graph starting with 日 then 十 then the rest. In other words, there is a modern (post-seal) form in which the central vertical stroke in 正 extends above its top line and touches the 日. Like this:

After studying its etymology I learned that shi4 originally meant ‘spoon’ and is actually 早 a spoon plus a horizontal stroke indicating a hand holding it (unrelated to zao3, early, although they look the same), with 止 underneath. In other words, to write 日正 is an error, from an etymological perspective. Here is a bronze graph showing the correct structure I’m talking about: 金文:毛公旅鼎:

So given that the modern form is erroneous, why not write it this way, which is correct, still easy to read, and consistent with examples in the post-seal calligraphic tradition? So this is how I now write the graph by hand.

You’ve got yu2 于 on the right there; it should be 亍 (types as chu4). :wink:

Dear all,

From the Hanyu Da Cidian put out by the Hanyu Da Cidian Chubanshe:

術1 [shù 《廣韻》食聿切,入術,船。]

  1. 道路。
  2. 方法;手段。
  3. 特指君主控制和使用臣下的策略﹑手段。
  4. 权术;计谋。
  5. 技艺;业术。
  6. 思想;学说。
  7. 方术。指医﹑卜﹑星﹑相等术艺。
  8. 学习;效法。
  9. 通"述"。遵循,依照。
  10. 通"述"。记述,陈述。
  11. 通"殺"。等级。
  12. 通"聿"。用于句首或句中,表示语气。参见"術追"。
  13. 姓。

術2 [suì 《集韻》徐醉切,去至,邪。]

通"遂"。

  1. 古代行政区划。
  2. 小沟。
  3. 隧道。见"術數"。
  4. 谓顺性。
  5. 见"術術"。

术1 [zhú 《廣韻》直律切,入術,澄。]
亦作"朮"。

  1. 草名。多年生草本。有白术﹑苍术等数种。根茎可入药。

术2 [shú 《廣韻》食聿切,入術,船。]

  1. "秫"的古字。
  2. 见"术术"。
  3. 通"鷸"。鹬冠。
  4. 姓。

术3 [chù]

“怵"的古字。参见"术悐”。

术4 [shù]

"術"的简化字。

遂1 [suì 《廣韻》徐醉切,去至,邪。]

  1. 前进;前往。
  2. 进举;举荐。
  3. 完成;成功。
  4. 生长;养育。
  5. 顺应;符合。
  6. 如愿;顺从。
  7. 引申指随从。
  8. 决断。参见"遂疑"。
  9. 表明;表达。参见"遂威"﹑“遂惔”。
  10. 专擅。
  11. 通达。
  12. 舒展;宽容。
  13. 因循。
  14. 水中道路。
  15. 指道路。
  16. 田间排水的小沟。
  17. 远郊;古代在远郊设立的行政区划。
  18. 古代统辖五县的行政区划。
  19. 钟体受击处。
  20. 射鞲,射箭时穿的臂衣。
  21. 全部;完全;尽。
  22. 引申为彻底追究。
  23. 副词。于是;就。
  24. 副词。终于;竟然。
  25. 通"墜"。
  26. 通"邃"。深远貌。
  27. 通"燧"。古代取火的器具。
  28. 周代诸侯国名。妫姓,舜的后裔,春秋时为齐所灭。故地在今山东省宁阳县西北。

Kobo-Daishi, PLLA.

Thanks, KD!

These confirm my basic points; the additional readings are of interest, too.