I imagine, rather, that you’ll be met with a blank stare.
Considering that the Xia left no written records, that even the subsequent dynasty, the Shang left no written history per se and did not address the reason for their own name or the existence of the Xia, and that the very existence of the Xia has not been proven archaeologically beyond reasonable doubt (this is currently a hot area of dispute), I’m afraid we’re going to have to take this one with a cubic mile of salt .
That’s very thoughtful and “creative” of you. :loco:
I heard this story and also heard that the name, Japan, comes to us via Marco Polo. He referred to it by the Chinese name ri ben guo, but it was written as “zi pan go” and eventually came to be known as Japan. I don’t know if it’s true or not.
Well, the thing about “Japan” coming from Chinese makes perfect sense. The name literally means “the origin of the sun”, and where would you have to be for it to look like the sun was rising from Japan’s position? To the west of course, in China. And it’s not a big stretch from “ri ben” to “Japan”.
It’d probably not be the mandarin form though. maybe cantonese, or an older dialect. “yut boon” → ja pan
I later found this in Wikipedia: it would appear the sun connotation (Yamato) has more to do with Amaterasu’s role (Shinto sun goddess and ancestor of imperial family) than China’s relative geographic location (at least originally)
[quote]Both Nippon and Nihon literally mean “sun origin”, i.e., where the sun originates, and is often translated as the “Land of the Rising Sun”. This nomenclature comes from imperial correspondence with China and refers to Japan’s eastward position relative to the Asian continent. Before Japan had relations with China, it was known as Yamato and Hi-no-moto, which means “source of the sun”. Wa (倭) was a name early China used to refer to Japan, around the time of the Three Kingdoms Period. Although originally pejorative–the character used means “dwarf”–a different character 和, which has more positive connotations, came to be used. Retroactively, this character was adopted to write the word Yamato by combining it with character for large, resulting in 大和 meaning “Great Harmony”. When hi-no-moto was written in kanji, it was given the characters 日本. In time, these characters began to be read using pseudo-Chinese readings, first Nippon and later Nihon.
The English word for Japan came to the West from early trade routes. The early Mandarin Chinese word for Japan was recorded by Marco Polo as Cipangu. The Malay word for Japan, Japang, was borrowed from a Chinese language (possibly an earlier version of the modern Cantonese word yahtbun), and this Malay word was encountered by Portuguese traders in Malacca in the 16th century. It is thought the Portuguese traders were the first to bring the word to Europe. It was first recorded in English in 1577 spelled Giapan.[/quote]
I heard Centerland was a amusement fun park until it was destroyed in 1289 by the unhappy Mongols who were refused admission, because they didn’t make the minimum height requirments for all the rides. That and they kept on beheading other patrons so they could play polo. For those of you obsessed with sources, I think I read it in Zhandalan Ce.
It’d probably not be the Mandarin form though. maybe Cantonese, or an older dialect. “yut boon” → ja pan[/quote]
I thought about that, but Cantonese seems less likely. Anyone know the Shanghainese or Hokkien readings? I seem to recall hearing one of those two being a relatively early diverger in terms of dialectal evolution.
The word “China” has actually been traced to the Han Dynasty.
Apparently there were some English speaking minority groups there along one portion of the Yellow River … and they had trouble pronouncing the word Han … and ended up pronouncing the beginning H with more of a “ch” sound, then moved the middle vowel a to the end, and added an i in the middle …
[quote=“lupillus”]Taken from epochtimes.com/b5/4/10/20/n695630.htm , "A discussion on the “Zi Na” problem.
…However, in the past, when people used the term, “Zhong Guo”, it referred to the central plains area. “Zhong Guo Ren” referred to those who lived in the central plains area. As opposed to the “border people” who lived near the border in Tibet, Mongolia, etc. Previously, there was no usage of “Zhong Guo” to represent China…
[/quote]
Excellent! I remember one of my classical Chinese profs saying that “no, no, ‘zhong guo’ didn’t originally refer to China, it originally referred to the central states of the Warring States period, the central plains…” Nice to see that from at least some other source.
Interesting. Can you provide any sources on this? Personally I’m skeptical, because it involves more radical changes to the pronunciation than does the Ch’in (Qin) → China lineage, and I tend to follow the rule of parsimony in such matters when stronger evidence is lacking.
Interesting. Can you provide any sources on this? Personally I’m skeptical, because it involves more radical changes to the pronunciation than does the Ch’in (Qin) → China lineage, and I tend to follow the rule of parsimony in such matters when stronger evidence is lacking.[/quote]
Hrm. I’d be rather surprised if this were the case, since Old English isn’t really considered to have begun before the Germanic tribes entered Britain (…Albion?) in the 5th Cent., about 200 years after the Han dynasty.
This thread has been really interesting to watch. Half the comments are very tongue-in-cheek humor and the other half are totally sincere, and frankly I can’t tell the difference any more
The term 中國 has been in use since the Spring Autumn dynasty, which proceeds the Han dynasty by 900 years.
As for the Albion connection, I believe it is derived from the Gaelic word Alba, the ancient name of what we call Scotland now.
I was under the impression that China was a derivation of the word Cina (Sanskrit) and Sina (latin). China was used as porclien in 1579 and as a country in 1555.
[quote=“ac_dropout”]The term 中國 has been in use since the Spring Autumn dynasty, which proceeds the Han dynasty by 900 years.
As for the Albion connection, I believe it is derived from the Gaelic word Alba, the ancient name of what we call Scotland now.
I was under the impression that China was a derivation of the word Cina (Sanskrit) and Sina (latin). China was used as porclien in 1579 and as a country in 1555.[/quote]
Except there is no Spring(s) and Autumn(s) “dynasty.”
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:bravo: 
Thanks for that! I believe the issue is now settled!
I think Richard was pulling the wool over our eyes :raspberry: 