European Misperceptions of America (the Great!)

[quote=“Dangermouse”]
You need taking down a peg or two.[/quote]

Why? So Brits will feel better about being losers?

Losers of what, CS? I didn’t realise the Brits were losers.

Infact, I thought it would have been the other way around - not losing a war since 1066, but the US effectively losing three in as many decades.

[quote=“Dangermouse”]Losers of what, CS? I didn’t realise the Brits were losers.

Infact, I thought it would have been the other way around - not losing a war since 1066, but the US effectively losing three in as many decades.[/quote]

The Brits lost both the American Revolution and the War of 1812. And what about the great fight you and the Frogs put up at Suez? What wars exactly has the US lost in the past 30 years?

BTW, if you want to talk about prowess at arms, compare the British “defense” of Singapore with the American defense of the Philippines.

1). Vietnam
2). Korea
3) .Iraq 1.

Possible 4: Iraq 2.

The civil war was what it was: A civil war, so don’ try that one. Considering the civil war was abreak away faction of the original Brits fighting, well, the Brits, then it doesn’t count.

Oman? Just fine thanks. Falklands? Not too bad.

Suez was a mistake, granted, but nothing compared to the Fuck up you made in Vietnam. Perhaps you’d like to compare Vietnam with the British defence of Singapore?
And let’s consider the fact that there was immense pressure from the US towards Britain to back down on the Suez crises. Immense pressure,

Over to you.

it was my understanding that congress didn’t give the OK to a war in Vietnam…so technically it wasn’t a war. I think the same goes for Iraq 1, but not 100% or even care. UK Rules!

[quote=“Dangermouse”]1). Vietnam
2). Korea
3) .Iraq 1.

Possible 4: Iraq 2.[/quote]

Korea? That was under the UN mandate. The objective of the “police action” was to stop the Communist invasion of the South. The “police action” was successful. Iraq 1? Also a “police action” under UN mandate. The objective was to drive Iraqi forces out of Kuwait. The “police action” was successful. Vietnam? Again, a police action. The Communist forces were stopped the US pulled out and then the US Congree refused to uphold its treaty obligations to aid South Vietnam in the event of a future attack.

Note, if the US was defeated in Korea or Iraq, the UK was also because it was fighting there also under UN mandate.
Also note, during the Vietnam War, British as well as other European ships supplied North Vietnam. Had the US bombed Haiphong Harbor regardless of European objections, the war would have been shortened. In addition, throughout the war, British and French airlines operated out of Hanoi. In order to keep these planes from being shot down, the US had to give th French and British safe times, directions and altitudes. As a result, the North Vietnamese and their Soviet allies always knew when and where the US would be attacking from and how to set their air defences.

Yeah, a real special relationship. Always nice to have you guys along for the ride.

Ah, the Cato Institute. Rupert Murdoch is on their board of directors.
So we know just how “fair and balanced” they must be.

Suggest to watch the documentary “Outfoxed” and also
“Orwell roll over in his grave”. Though I can’t post the ed2k links here…

[quote=“Shenme Niao”]Ah, the Cato Institute. Rupert Murdoch is on their board of directors.
So we know just how “fair and balanced” they must be.

Suggest to watch the documentary “Outfoxed” and also
“Orwell roll over in his grave”. Though I can’t post the ed2k links here…[/quote]

Lots of Clinton people and notable Democrats at the Brookings eh?

brook.edu/ea/trustees.htm

Strobe Talbot, Zoe Baird, Theresa Heinz, Laura D’Andrea Tyson, Lawrence H. Summers, Vernon E. Jordan Jr, Robert S. McNamara

[quote=“Comrade Stalin”]
Also note, during the Vietnam War, British as well as other European ships supplied North Vietnam. Had the US bombed Haiphong Harbor regardless of European objections, the war would have been shortened. In addition, throughout the war, British and French airlines operated out of Hanoi. In order to keep these planes from being shot down, the US had to give th French and British safe times, directions and altitudes. As a result, the North Vietnamese and their Soviet allies always knew when and where the US would be attacking from and how to set their air defences.

Yeah, a real special relationship. Always nice to have you guys along for the ride.[/quote]

The British SAS were in Vietnam helping the Americans.

never mind

As were the fine soldiers from Austrailia, New Zealand, South Korea and quite a few other nations.
Many of the UK/Aussie/Kiwi troops went thru training in jungle warfare in Malaysia and Indonesia. They were quite valued for their experience in counter-insurgency (so named at the time) action in VN.
Aussie troops and Kiwis fought and performed valiantly.
I owe my life to an Aussie med group. And they always had the best beer in the boonies. :bravo:

And there were taiwanese.
CKS wanted to send all his troops when he was asked for assitance and America said no, because CKS thought that China was to be attacked following Vietnam.

Absolutely.

Anyway, my original reason for biting, CS, is because of your comment “Brits are losers.”

Care to back this up? Or was it just an ill thought out immature responce with no backbone?

[quote=“Dangermouse”]
Care to back this up? Or was it just an ill thought out immature responce with no backbone?[/quote]

No problem. The British national sport seems to be tearing down anyone who looks to be accomplishing anything worthwhile. You bleat on and on about Americans supposed lack of culture, inability to speak “proper” English, “unprofessional” military, etc etc. This from a country that has had it’s best and brightest leaving for the past 500 years. It seems the only way the UK can make itself feel better about itself is to tear the US down.

A sad way to define oneself a nation.

Absolutely.

Anyway, my original reason for biting, CS, is because of your comment “Brits are losers.”

Care to back this up? Or was it just an ill thought out immature responce with no backbone?[/quote]

:smiling_imp: Surely, you mean response?

Guess you like the ponce :wink:

dictionary.reference.com/search?q=ponce

I know this is off-topic, but I think I’ve got it pegged.

Heck, if I was carrying that, I’d probably be spending a little bit more than an hour with I&C…

You will get no complaints about the British government from me. While I understand there is a mindless trend toward America bashing among the bien pensant in London and other British cities as well, the overall tenure of British policies has been strongly based on a responsible position in world affairs and one that has supported the US to a laudatory degree. I would put the Netherlands, Denmark, Norway, Eastern Europe, the Baltics, the Balkans, and to some extent Italy, Portugal and previously Spain in this.

But out of all of them, the British are still very high up in my book and I refuse to say anything bad about the nation who gave us Margaret Thatcher.

[quote=“fred smith”]
But out of all of them, the British are still very high up in my book and I refuse to say anything bad about the nation who gave us Margaret Thatcher.[/quote]

True. And I have nothing bad to say about either the British Travel Authority or British Airways. They got my family out of a right sticky wicket. Now AIT is a completely different matter. :fume:

Back this up. Where is your example?

Banter. Perhaps you shouldn’t take it so seriously.

I stand by this because of some of the unbeleivable things I have seen with my own eyes. I have very limited experience working along side the US military, but what I have seen scared the shit out of me. Secondly, I almost got wiped off the face of the earth by the US military when I was not in the Airforce - minding my own business in my own country.

Now maybe its different, but from what I have seen and experienced it certainly strikes me as dangerous, and at best unproffessional.

Are you sure? The overall attitude towards the US and its people as a whole is very positive. As foreign vistors to the UK you are embraced.
Any help we have received from the US is greatfully received.
I remember when I was living im Malaysia for a short time there was an Australian couple living next door who harped on and on about the US and what an evil country it is all the time. An argument ensued because I was for the most part defending the US to the hilt.

British newspapers are unscrupulous and will often attack the US because the government has policies related to the US, for example, Iraq. If any US bashing is done by the papers then it is often a bash at the UK Government via the US.

If you really want to see some US bashing, take a trip over to France and find out what you are missing.

Why do I bash the US? Well, I don’t think I do. But when I see things that are not fair, when I see the US interfereing as it often does and when I see the constant trumpeting of “How great the US is” every time I turn on the TV, watch a movie or come to this website, then I feel I have to counter the pro US rantings now and then with anecdotal evidence to the contrary.

Please also remember that there are reasons why alot of older generation Brits, not so much dislike but are annoyed at the US.

Take the often heard phrase “We won the war” from Americans. Now while we are grateful for your help during the war, the war wasn’t won by you. You helped tip the balance but you didn’t win it. It was a joint effort. Granted, if you hadn’t joined then it would have been lost. But that goes for the Russian involvement too.
But many older people who lived through the war get very upset and angry when they hear Americans say “we won the war” and make movies to the world showing it so. It just makes what these people lived through, to them, seem in vain.
Now while this may not seem a big deal to you or I, it is to them, my Grandad included.

Then there is progress and technology. Much British technology went to the States after the war after the various sharing of technology policies at that time. Alot of people find it annoying that the US is making money from designs that are essentially British.

The breaking of the sound barrier is one example of where the US copied UK technology but hasn’t credited the UK.
Jet engines.
Aircraft carriers.
All examples of British technology in use by the US today.

And we don’t particularly care except for the fact that we also have to put up with the constant reminder that America is great all the damn time.

This is the reason why I feel I have to point things out to the contrary all the time

Yeah. We know. America is a great country, I agree. And it’s nice to be proud of your acheivements. But I don’t need it rammed down my neck every fucking day for the rest of my life and neither does anyone else.

Lethal Lemming:

America is a great country that is proud of its achievements… :smiling_imp: :slight_smile: :wink:

I will send you a private message regarding the same for each and every day of the month of March. :smiling_imp: :slight_smile: :wink: