[quote]The European Union’s antiterrorism chief told a hearing on Thursday that he had not been able to prove that secret C.I.A. prisons existed in Europe.
“We’ve heard all kinds of allegations,” the official, Gijs de Vries, said before a committee of the European Parliament. “It does not appear to be proven beyond reasonable doubt.”[/quote]
Oh dear oh dear and all while European governments are stepping up major infringements of their citizens rights to degrees far in excess of the Patriot Act. What? No hysteria about coup d’etats overthrowing democracies in Europe? No hand wringing about democracies step backward on the Continent? Oh dear oh dear. So many worries, outcries and calumnies but so little objectivity in setting those bars. Oh dear oh dear oh dear.
[quote=“fred smith”][quote]The European Union’s antiterrorism chief told a hearing on Thursday that he had not been able to prove that secret C.I.A. prisons existed in Europe.
“We’ve heard all kinds of allegations,” the official, Gijs de Vries, said before a committee of the European Parliament. “It does not appear to be proven beyond reasonable doubt.”[/quote]
Oh dear oh dear and all while European governments are stepping up major infringements of their citizens rights to degrees far in excess of the Patriot Act. What? No hysteria about coup d’etats overthrowing democracies in Europe? No hand wringing about democracies step backward on the Continent? Oh dear oh dear. So many worries, outcries and calumnies but so little objectivity in setting those bars. Oh dear oh dear oh dear.[/quote]
And since when does lack of proof actually equate to lack of existence.
Based on this same logic fred, then the US invasion of Iraq should never of happened as you could not prove he had WMD.
According to the best information that the National Department of Creationist Science have come up with, the interrogation facilities were placed in Europe by Satan 6,000 years ago in order to test our faith.
I find it rather sad that among allies such an investigation was even necessary. Or are there certain levels of allies? This whole incident tells you that Washington is not interested in allies, just trying to use people and take advantage of them as long as possible, and then bomb them in the end.
[quote]I find it rather sad that among allies such an investigation was even necessary. Or are there certain levels of allies? This whole incident tells you that Washington is not interested in allies, just trying to use people and take advantage of them as long as possible, and then bomb them in the end.[/quote] :roflmao: You guys crack me up…really…you do. Thanks for my Friday chuckle… :discodance:
That is why I am planning to move next to the airport city Taoyuen and next to a millitary facility here in Taiwan. Because it is safer here.
How scared I was back home, US will one day bomb me, right in Lower Saxony.
Where is the teeth-clappering emoticon… shiver. Good I am out of this constand death fear.
Wait … Taiwan is allied to US also, right? Brrrrrrr… Safe no where, I tell ya.
That is why I am planning to move next to the airport city Taoyuen and next to a millitary facility here in Taiwan. Because it is safer here.
How scared I was back home, US will one day bomb me, right in Lower Saxony.
Where is the teeth-clappering emoticon… shiver. Good I am out of this constand death fear.
Wait … Taiwan is allied to US also, right? Brrrrrrr… Safe no where, I tell ya.[/quote]
I was more refering to the incidents, where, yes Saddam himself was once a U.S. ally. And didn’t Bin Laden help fighting the russians before in Afghanistan. The U.S. left there also a total chaos which made the uprise of the Taliban possible. Both used to be former U.S. allies.
I agree, that bombing NATO/European allies won’t be a very realistic scenario, but the way the U.S. treats their allies is not very hope giving either.
I think many of the shitheads that were US allies were just damned if you do damned if you don’t pawns in the cold war.[/quote]
You see, that’s what I am talking about. A lot of those guys gave their lives for which cause? The obsession to fight communism. And after everything was done, they were dropped like a hot potato and called shitheads. That is not very respectful. No wonder they are mad.
[quote=“jdsmith”][
I think the US has treated its true allies with lots of respect, in the case of France, far more than it deserves.[/quote]
And what exactly did France do that Canada did not do? From what I heard, there are no Canadian troups in Iraq, nor was the war in Iraq supported by Canada. But Canada is too important of a neighbour for the U.S. so they could not say anything. Rather blame little France in far away Europe, and call deep fried potatoes “Freedom Fries”. Much more effective propaganda.
And I think not allowing other countries to voice their opinion, including opposing the war, isn’t respectful either. In fact it’s hypocritical bullshit to go around and claim to spread freedom, democracy etc. and then be “upset” if others don’t kiss your ass, which is what the US seems to expect from their so-called allies.
Maybe many countries should be grateful for what the US did, but imo it doesn’t mean they have to jump everytime when the US says “jump”, in particular if it’s a demand (for the lack of a better word) to wage an offensive war with them. Refusing such is something the US should respect.
In fact I don’t understand the whining (not addressed at you personally, JD) since it has been said several times that the US (military) is so great that it can do pretty much everything on its own - so what’s so tragic about some of your allies refusing to join the COW?
Supporting the war and being outright hostile towards the U.S. are two separate things. Besides is the U.S. not allowed to go after countries the way they go after us? The daily U.S. flag burning protest followed by finding American tourist to harass/beat up compares to french surrendering jokes? Grow a layer of skin why don
As a french citizen, I m especially proud that our government together with the German didn t follow this Mr Bush and Co liers. :raspberry:
It is nothing new in the US, that to voice against a war is considered as being non patriotic (when this is done in the US) or not an ally anymore (when this comes from the ouside). Where is the freedom ?
I m glad now more and more american understands the reality.
My hope and the hope of SO MANY COUNTRIES (not only France) around this world is to see a change of US administration asap. This time will come. Just like Berlusconi is gone (one less…)
[quote=“SHARLEE”]As a french citizen, I m especially proud that our government together with the German didn t follow this Mr Bush and Co liers. :raspberry:
[/quote]
Well, if you really were so hostile to America, you’d liberate us from our current regime… Please.
Just think, everyone would be happy. The French could feel smug. Arms dealers could keep pushing their junk. The American left could cheer the downfall of Bush, and the right could get insurgent on a foreign (and French!) occupation.
When has the US said jump? When did the US ask or demand that any nation join it in war?
You continue to deliberately mischaracterize this debate. The US never asked Germany or France for anything. How many troops were you going to send to Iraq when you disagreed given that what you sent to Afghanistan when you did agree is hardly earth shattering.
No. As always Rascal, this was expecting more from Germany and France because as allies who have been mostly at the benefit end of the stick with giving very little in return, the US was fully justified to expect that the two would voice their opposition, continue to provide nothing and then stay out of the way. What Germany and France did was to actively oppose and to play all sorts of shenanigans. Everyone in the diplomatic circles knows what really went down. When the little effort to create a Paris Berlin Moscow axis came to naught, France came running back like a bitch, while thank God Germany elected someone with some sense.
In the meantime, what happened to your wonderful principled ethical voicing opposition because of international law chancellor? Why he is now the paid figure head for the Russian mafia. Talk about blood for oil. But whose leader exactly was it that sold out, eh Rascal?
Also for those other misinformed. Saddam and the Taliban were NEVER US allies nor was Saddam trained by the US. Ditto for Osama bin Laden. If you feel you are right, then prove it. You will not be able to. Have fun trying though. I will be waiting.
You keep saying lie, but when your premier and foreign minister both agreed with your intelligence agency that Saddam was trying to develop wmds, why is it a lie when Bush agrees with them?
What exactly did the US ask France to provide? Freedom? You were free to act anyway you like but when you acted in the way that you did, then well one has to wonder if those actions are those of an ally or not. Why then has your government completely caved in to cooperate with the Americans that you seem to hate and revile? Hmmm? Was it France or the US who backed down? Ask your journalists to discuss how France is cooperating with the US in Afghanistan, Lebanon, Haiti and elsewhere. Actually, France is now a sterling ally and you will get no complaints from me. Germany is once again a sterling ally and you will get no complaints from me. Ah, but Rascal is not happy… Too bad. I predict that Merkel will remain in office for quite some time and that means not that the US “wins” but that we all do.
I m glad now more and more American understands the reality.
Well now that France and Germany and even Spain are back in that plus column for the US and given that I doubt much will really change except probably for the Italian troops to leave Iraq, what exactly have you gained? In terms of Europe, it has been one win after another for Bush in the aftermath of the Iraq debacle. Ask yourself why if France and Germanys leaders were right, why Schroeder is in Russia, Merkel is in office and Chirac cannot do enough to work with the US? eh?
Here we go again, Fred Smith is again publishing his american stereotypes on this forum. We know, communism is bad, and everything that comes out of Russia is part of the Mafia. It is ooookaaay!
If you want me to proof American support for the Muchahedin when the former Soviet Union was in Afghanistan, or U.S. support for Saddam in the Iran/Iraq war, then please also proof Schroeders involvement with the Russian mafia.
Once you are at it, please don’t forget to mention the corruption of U.S. politicians. Do I really have to remind you of Cheney/Haliburton and how they bleed the U.S. tax payers?
