Ever Met a Pro-TI Mainlander?

Politics Taiwan Politics
21

[quote=“Miranda”]I suspect, and I may be going out on a limb here, that sometimes people in China, and Chinese people living in Wai Guo don’t always tell foreigners the truth. It’s just a hunch, though.

I make a point of always agreeing most vociferously with whatever Chinese people say. It often throws them completely.

Chinese Rent-a-Nationalist: “America is the great Satan!”

Dumb-ass Foreigner (me): “Absofuckinglutely! You Chinese totally kick ass and we American just suck huge quantities of donkey dick!”

Chinese Rent-a-Nationalist: “Er, yes well, I mean you’re not that bad, but you have to admit we Chinese are pretty damned smart eh?”

Dumb-ass Foreigner (me): “f***ing righteous! You got all that ten thousand years of history shit goin’ on, and we just climbed out of the goddamn trees last week!”

Chinese Rent-a-Nationalist: “Yeah, well er, you know. Taiwan’s a part of China isn’t it? That’s pretty cool, eh?”

Dumb-ass Foreigner (me): “You bet your sweet ass it is! I just spent 15 years living there, and those people over there are just itching to get a part of that PRC / PLA / PAP action! All my friends have posters of Lei Feng on the wall wondering where the f*ck the PLA got to after it was going to pop over in 1952 and liberate us all from those scum-sucking capitalist roadster pig-dogs! You guys sure were lucky you didn’t have to deal with all that capitalism shit! People running round like headless chickens making money hand over fist - horrible! Long live the CCP! Gan Bei!”

Chinese Rent-a-Nationalist: “Who is Lei Feng?”

Dumb-ass Foreigner (me): “???”[/quote]
A full translation, please. I’m dying to try this out with the next uppity mainlander I talk to. :roflmao:

22

When I was living in Taichung I used to frequently madly sweep the stairs of my apartment block, often spilling out onto sweeping the road while wearing my “Learn from comrade Lei Feng” T-shirt. I thought it was hilarious. Pity no one else understood it.

HG

23

Great picture of Lei Feng. He totally saved the Chinese people. If he just hadn’t drowned trying to rescue that damned telephone pole. This is getting a bit esoteric isn’t it? OK. Back to normal programming.

24

Pretty much, because unlike you, most ROC citizens didn’t get to grow up with PRC propoganda material like Lei Feng and Chairman Mao’s Little Red Book.

If you must talk about heroic figures, you have to talk about 長江一號, the bestest spy the ROC secret service has ever produced. His exploits are famous on Taiwan.

25

Cheers for that ac, I’ll check it out . . . it’s a vaguely familiar tale . . .forgotten history on my part.

HG

26

Pro-It Mainlander. Are we talking about those who live in Taiwan, China, or elsewhere? I think theres is some difference in average opinion based on where they live.

27

I was always under the impression that this attitude was related to education. The overseas Chinese that I have spoken with have all been exposed to a free press and open schools, and subsequently are aware of the real situation. The academics from the PRC that I have spoken with are also well aware of what the real facts are. The only people I know who continue to talk as though there really is only one China are Taiwan-based professionals (mostly academics, politicans, and journalists) from families that came to Taiwan following WWII.

28

Why would any academics in the PRC tell you that they acknowledge that Taiwan is independent? Where are these people? I’ve never heard from any of them.

The dozen or so monthly articles from Xinhua and People’s Daily make it seem like all the academics and professionals in China also agree with the One-China and Taiwan’s-government-doesn’t-really-exist rhetoric.

If anything most of them call Taiwan’s government a pseudo-democracy, because “obviously most Taiwanese people want to unite with China”. In fact I’ve once had a Chinese guy tell me that most Taiwanese supposedly love China and its the few TI individuals who are “ruining everything”.

29

I hope you read them the Miranda Act.

HG

30

I don’t doubt that academics writing in the newspapers adhere to Party lines. But then, everyone writing in the People’s Daily does. Why would that surprise you?

I can’t speak for the people you have read, but if you attend academic conferences and talk with scholars from the PRC, you might find a mor sympathetic voice.

31

I’ve attended a few conferences with Chinese Scholars and Exiles. Usually there first concern is how to retain their visa abroad. This “One China” issue is usually not their major concern.

If it ever does come up in a conversation their slant is usually, “Well PRC and ROC citizens get along well overseas. We build communities together and work together. There is no significant difference between the two cultures. There is no reason why reunification cannot occur.”

Most TI supporter would then cite that these oversea Chinese communities are in a 1st world Democracy. But the counter point would be that most FOBs are not citizens of the host country and get no political benefit of a democracy, besides the economic benefits. Similar to a reunification scenario being proposed for reunification, small political gain of recognition for huge potential economic gains of a growth economy that shows no signs of abating in the next couple of decades.

32

Many of my associates who are Mainlanders do acknowledge Taiwan is pretty much independent. They seem highly interested in what goes on politically, and don’t share any “hard feelings” for Taiwan.

The only time they bitch about the topic is when they hear CSB mouthing-off about declaring independence.

33

Yet another HK University poll out today shows 0ver 70% of HK people are against Taiwan independance. That matches with my encounters of people in HK

i don’t get it.

HG

34

HG, that’s weird. All the originally-from-HK people I meet in Toronto - and trust me, there are PLENTY - around half-a-million or so, according to the most recent StatsCan survey - they recognize Taiwan as independent. They also recognize that HK isn’t going to be granted real democracy anytime soon.

It may also depend on the wording of the questions, too. Who knows what “influence” the University of HK is under now.

35

They may recognise Taiwan operates as an independent entity but I get the feeling they would rather it be part of China. That’s the case with most people I speak to. rarely do I get a “Why would Taiwan want to revert to China?”

But then again, I don’t have much truck with what HK people think in general. I think a guy I met in in Guangzhou summed it up quite nicely.

“Years ago when we (China) were poor, they didn’t give a shit. If we did manage to get to HK, as I did, they refused to listen when we spoke Mandarin. Go there now and as the economy there is so dependant on China’s growth, they’re clambering all over themselves to speak Mandarin and display what good Chinese they are. Unfortunately now China is in the ascendant and they are going down. But truth is I can’t really be bothered kicking them as they fall.”

It’s a gross generalisation I accept and very unkind to the few activists in HK devoted to say pushing the truth regarding the June 4 “incident.” But there it is.

HG

36

HGC, I think this is the key point to understanding this problem and it is what is confusing AC. Any knowledageble person, like the PRC academics I have talked with, would have to admit that Taiwan IS independent -or at least completely autonomous. They may not like this and continue to dream of a Greater China Empire, but they are aware of the actual facts of the matter. Where they differ from ROC Pan-Blue academics, like Su Chi (who I have met), is that the Pan-Blues actually haven’t given up on the intellectual exercise of constructing the Greater China Empire.

37

I always find asking the ant-Taiwan independant sorts on what level they wish to claim Taiwan isn’t already an independant entity a good starting point.

I rather foolsihly de-faced a mainland public security chappy with this lineone night in front of a group of Taiwanese business men.

HG

38

No one denies ROC and PRC are seperate entities.

It is TI philosophy of “Us Taiwanese vs. Them Chinese” and “Tear down the ROC” that have many ROC citizens concerned on what level TI is suppose to work in reality.

If you believe that TI has to occur on those two tenets, then you are deluding yourselves. Most of Taiwan have already begun moving away from TI, as shown by the 2 most recent elections results, because not only has the leadership shown they are not playing TI for real, but because it doesn’t make sense anymore.

5% of ROC population lives on the Mainland now, to continue to treat the PRC as a political enemy is contradictory to what people of Taiwan need at this time.

39

AC, while this is all very interesting, I suggest that if you really want an answer to your points, it should be done in an entirely different post. This post was started by a different person to answer a different question.

40

Appreciate the existence of the thread. Heck, I welcome anything that suggests the opinions of the mainlander actually matters on this issue.

I’m writing in Hainan as we speak. There’s some true insights above, and also some pretty outrageous assumptions based on single interactions with isolated individuals.

Let me pipe in on this from the perspectives of what I see, as someone who travels here for at least a month every year, as somehow who fits in as yet another urban mainlander.

In a country this large, you will find some significant minority that supports any position. Someone earlier mentioned the FLG earlier as an example of a topic that no mainlander will discuss. Perhaps not, at least not to a laowai (never know when your opinions will pop up on the cover of some US rag). I’ve had plenty of people express their positive opinions of the FLG to me over the years.

3-4 years ago, it was more common to speak to people who had “friends” who were still practictioners, and who insisted the practice had positive values, improved life/health without any sign of downside. I’d also find FLG fliers stuffed in our mailboxes regularly.

Now, the practice of FLG has basically ceased. But there’s still plenty of cynical discussion of the motives of the Communist Party in going after it in the first place. Was it just meant to distract from other negative policies, internal politics, etc, etc, etc. Just this past week, a close family member handed me the electronic version of a FLG-article bashing JZM. In other words, people aren’t afraid of having and discussing opinions that are contrary to “Party doctrine”. And this applies to the TI issue as well.

But for the vast majority, Chinese nationalism is just a fundamental principal that runs deep. And yes, Taiwan is absolutely a Chinese nationalism issue… regardless of the recent political history involved. The difference in opinion amongst people boils down to one of relative priority. I have come across some with a passive dismissal of the whole Taiwan issue as a whole. On their list of daily priorities, it doesn’t even register. They wouldn’t spare a thought, far less sacrifice their lives, for the purpose of reunification. And for others, it’s a critical issue that’s worthy of a ICBM as soon as the fuse can be lit. Most other Chinese fall somewhere in between.

I’d assert again, as I’ve asserted before, that any Chinese government that “allowed” Taiwan to go independence would likely fall shortly after.