See the coverage in today’s Taipei Times here.
More details on FB @ Forward Taiwan.
Biggest changes ever for foreigners and foreign students in terms of residency, working permits etc…doesn’t even get a reply lol.
Honestly, I have to write about it and I am still sifting through the info… of what is not being said. There are many positive items, but the “point system”, “blue collar management level workers” and other grey areas make me go hmmmm. The salary requisites removed, leaving it to the market, can go both ways. But it is a door opening… wide! OTOH, just the possibility of spouses working is great. Now we need coordination so children can stay a longer time.
Funny most comments on Forward Taiwan refer to Chinese people migrating here… which if the immigration amendments approval would then allow.
[quote=“Icon”]Honestly, I have to write about it and I am still sifting through the info… of what is not being said. There are many positive items, but the “point system”, “blue collar management level workers” and other grey areas make me go hmmmm. The salary requisites removed, leaving it to the market, can go both ways. But it is a door opening… wide! OTOH, just the possibility of spouses working is great. Now we need coordination so children can stay a longer time.
Funny most comments on Forward Taiwan refer to Chinese people migrating here… which if the immigration amendments approval would then allow.[/quote]
What immigrant amendments??
The points system will probably be quite similar to the existing one for foreign graduates of Taiwanese universities.
I think the opening for blue collar workers is a very small step in the right direction. They are not talking about management workers. The affected blue collar workers will be experienced technicians who have developed skills while working in Taiwan for a long time. To put it in plain Chinese, they are 師傅級 skilled employees. These workers will have a way to stay in Taiwan and eventually gain permanent residence or citizenship. My understanding is that they first have to work in Taiwan for nine years, pass the points test, and then stay in Taiwan for five more years to qualify for permanent residence. If so, that’s a pretty narrow opening. Still it’s significant because it give migrant workers the chance to establish a life in Taiwan.
Removing the minimum salary requirements will probably lead to even lower salaries for white collar foreigners working in Taiwan especially in entry level positions. In the long run, there will be more opportunities for foreigners and Taiwanese workplaces will become more diverse. It’s good for Taiwan even if not so great for the average English teacher looking to change careers.
Children who already grew up in Taiwan can already extend their visas for up to six years, so they can stay until they are 26. If these regulations also allow them to work during their visa extensions, they should have a chance to be able to earn permanent residence by the age of 25. That seems fair in most cases.
The detailed regulations will be very important and there may well be things that narrow the scope of these changes. There are also a lot of negative comments from Taiwanese commenters on the UDN and Apple Daily stories. If you support these changes, which most members of Forumosa should, please get online and rebut the comments or ask your Taiwanese friends and family to do the same. We can’t do it by ourselves. We need support from the Taiwanese community.
Obviously allowing family to work without restriction is a big change. Also no need for 47k minimum and no capital restriction on companies hiring foreigners, seems like possible backdoor for mainland immigration. Great news for foreign students studying in Taiwan. Not big effect on current residents I think. Overall I support it even as its either open or die out slowly at this stage. Agree the details are all Important.
The revisions and new laws affect 3 groups mainly, from what I understand: white collar workers, blue collar workers, and foreign -including Mainland- students.
Let’s see if I get this right: for white collars, you wither make 47,971 as minimum or you/the company/dunno who has to justify paying less but still having you here based on the accumulated points system, ie. language ability, degrees, etc.
For blue collars it opens the doors to being hired indefinetively instead of only 12 years, and option to stay permanently with APRC or nationality. This last item still depends of amendments to the Nationality Law.
For foreign students and students from Mainland, they will be judged on a point basis -old restrictions have been scrapped. This benefits Mainlanders, especially in technical schools, “who are considered college graduates under the new rules and will be allowed to stay based on the assessment system”. So, there is still some hurdles there. I would like to know which fields are these students focusing on in vocational schools. **
Internships in Taiwan would be very attractive for foreign students. Easier procedures and wider options in this regard would be fantastic.
Other group that would be interested in investing in Taiwan taking advantage of these rules would be Hong Kongese. Dunno where that would stand though.
*Immigrant amendments: to allow Mainland Chinese spouses to spend the same amount of time as other foreigners to get nationality -now they have extra two years.
** Regarding the Service Pact opening to establishing fully owned enterprises in certain fields, if they may be in direct competition with local enterprises.
[quote=“Icon”]The revisions and new laws affect 3 groups mainly, from what I understand: white collar workers, blue collar workers, and foreign -including Mainland- students.
Let’s see if I get this right: for white collars, you wither make 47,971 as minimum or you/the company/dunno who has to justify paying less but still having you here based on the accumulated points system, ie. language ability, degrees, etc.
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I would put it this way. If your employee scores enough points, the Ministry of Labor will issue a work permit to do professional and technical work (Class A). If you are going to pay the employee at least NT$47,971, the employee does not have to qualify under the points system.
[quote]For blue collars it opens the doors to being hired indefinetively instead of only 12 years, and option to stay permanently with APRC or nationality. This last item still depends of amendments to the Nationality Law.
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The last item does not depend on the Nationality law. As long as the employee’s residence is not based on one of the three migrant worker categories and he accrues 183 days of continues residence, the blue collar technician will be able eligible for permanent residence like any other foreigner on an ARC. He could also become a citizen although he still needs to give up his original nationality. No amendment is needed to the Nationality Act for this.
Foreign graduates of Taiwanese universities have been using the points system since July 2014. The points system for foreign graduates is going to be made even easier than it already was. Chinese graduates from the PRC are not eligible to work in Taiwan under the July 2014 system and will not be eligible under the new system either.
I’m not sure how attractive internships in Taiwan are, but it is already very easy to get one approved. The only problem in this area is that there is very little information available in English or Chinese about the simple procedures that are already in place. Most Taiwanese employers don’t even know what an internship is, let alone know about getting one. In any event, the approved Ministry of Labor plan is not really about interns unless you count the expansion of the points system for foreign graduates to include Overseas Chinese doing vocational/technical training in Taiwan.
That’s a good question. Not sure.
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What would then keep employers from saying you do not qualify to get 47k minimum and give you less? See what I mean? How can we demand now at least 47K?
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It was the minister of labor who said those blue collar benefits depended on amendments on the Nationality and Employment service Acts. Dunno if he’s right or wrong.
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Eh, apparently, they will. Most news bits I see do make a statement that Mainland students can now join the frey, at least the vocational schools. Overseas Chinese is a term that can encompass many things… And if offspring of Mainlanders get the benefits as per the amendments discussed, that’s another 2000 or more workers.
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When I was a student, it was really difficult to find a company willing to have an intern because the procedures were very complicated. I know this has eased up, but it has remained a main complaint, as the foreign students would like to apply say for X company, X company is willing but did not made the grade regarding requisites. So now with the requisites gone, one hopes that will be the case.
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The Hong Kongese came to mind because precisely yesterday there was this bit on the news on their investments here, and how they are more positive and optimistic regarding the business environment and life quality overall in Taiwan… more than Taiwanese.
Read some of the comments in United Daily and Apple…Interestingly, Apple more pessimistic than United. In general, people complain this benefits only big corporations and that Taiwan will become a blue collar island, overrun by cheap labor.
[quote=“Icon”]1. What would then keep employers from saying you do not qualify to get 47k minimum and give you less? See what I mean? How can we demand now at least 47K?
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Nothing. Your employer is no longer required to pay you NT$48k minimum if you meet the points requirement. Your salary will depend on market forces and your bargaining power.
2. It was the minister of labor who said those blue collar benefits depended on amendments on the Nationality and Employment service Acts. Dunno if he's right or wrong.Can you shoot me a link?
Overseas Chinese is a well defined legal status. It does not include PRC nationals.
Show me a news story where it says that PRC Chinese students who graduate from vocational schools are eligible for work permits.
4. When I was a student, it was really difficult to find a company willing to have an intern because the procedures were very complicated. I know this has eased up, but it has remained a main complaint, as the foreign students would like to apply say for X company, X company is willing but did not made the grade regarding requisites. So now with the requisites gone, one hopes that will be the case. I can assure you that it is pretty easy now.
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Read some of the comments in United Daily and Apple…Interestingly, Apple more pessimistic than United. In general, people complain this benefits only big corporations and that Taiwan will become a blue collar island, overrun by cheap labor.[/quote]
I have. I’m actually surprised at how muted the reaction has been. Most comments are focused on the fear of Chinese workers and blue collar migrant workers. The main comment about foreign professionals is that they won’t come because salaries in Taiwan are too low. That’s true for many people, but there are also recent graduates who would like to work in Taiwan for a couple of years for the experience and the chance to improve their Chinese. Now they can.
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I am just concerned about application and loopholes - and with the awful bosses we have, salary reduction and stuff… which hence defeat the purpose of having a more flexible law to attract/retain more “foreign talent”. You see, every time they hire someone new here, for instance, they push the salary lower and lower… which makes positions very hard to fill… aside from our awful reputation.
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Technically, yes, but loopholes… Now, how long will this partition remain? Between foreign and Mainland workers?
Sorry, got confused with the Overseas. There is also as I say a number of children of Mainland spouses who are not Taiwanese nor have Taiwanese parents but reside here. But those are other amendments/story. -
Great. That would be a god hook.
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Yep, I guess the white collar population does not register -above kindergarten teacher level- for average Joe/Ah Huang. That could be working in our favor but we need to push regarding family residence rights a bit more.
Love the comment: “but no other country in the world allows its blue collar workers to have residence, only Taiwan!” :roflmao:
Are these new regulation changes in effect now? If not, when will they be?
Update
Friggin Batman, I had never thought I’d hear so much nonsense as teh opposition to foreigner worker amendments. It is this kind of thinking that keeps the Island isolated…just as the elites want it to be.
65 thousand foreign workeers tops?! 
Taipei, Oct. 18 (CNA) Civic groups voiced their concerns Wednesday about a draft act aimed at attracting more foreign white-collar workers to Taiwan, and urged the government to restrict the number of foreign professionals permitted to work in the country in order to protect local workers.
The groups voiced their concerns about the Draft Act for the Recruitment and Employment of Foreign Professional Talent at a press conference at the Legislative Yuan, a day before the act is scheduled to be reviewed by legislative committees. The draft act eases restrictions on the employment of foreign professionals and is aimed at increasing Taiwan’s international competitiveness.
At the press conference, Lai Chung-chiang (賴中強), convener of the Economic Democracy Union, said his group is not against Taiwan opening its doors to more foreign teachers, artists, technicians and other professionals, but demands to know if any restrictions will be placed on the total number of foreign professionals permitted to work in the country.
“I also support having more foreign teachers in Taiwan to make our culture more diverse, but I am against an opening measure with no upper ceiling,” said Lai, whose union consists of dozens of civic groups focusing on democracy, labor, the environment, youth and other issues.
Even the U.S. Congress has set an annual cap for its H-1B visas at 65,000, with an additional 20,000 visas for applicants with master’s degrees, he said, urging the government to set a cap on the number of foreign workers.
In response, Chen Ya-wen (陳雅雯), an official from the National Development Council (NDC), which proposed the draft act, told CNA by telephone that her council has not set a cap on the number of foreign workers because the primary purpose of the act is to attract foreign talent to Taiwan and to do that, Taiwan needs to be welcoming.
“Currently, compared to other countries, Taiwan is at a disadvantage in areas such as wage levels, so we believe we should not begin (the measure) by setting a quota,” said Chen, a section chief at the NDC’s Department of Human Resources Development.
Moreover, there are already restrictions in place to ensure that the foreign white collar workers permitted to work in Taiwan are professionals whose expertise is needed by Taiwan and who are hired with monthly salaries of at least NT$47,971 (US$1,588), she said.
“Our impact assessment shows that the number of these foreign professionals will not have too much of an impact on the current domestic job market,” she said. “We should first pass the law with an open mind and make adjustments later depending on the actual situation.”
In addition to quantity control, representatives of the civic groups also questioned the fairness of giving foreign professionals preferential tax treatment and easing restrictions on their families’ enrollment in Taiwan’s national health insurance program, as stipulated in the draft act.
In the area of taxes, during the first three years of employment in Taiwan, certain categories of foreign professionals will be taxed on only half of their income in excess of NT$2 million.
In regard to health insurance, spouses and dependent children of foreign professionals will no longer have to wait six months to become eligible for Taiwan’s national health insurance, and can be insured as soon as they obtain documentary proof of residence, according to the draft bill.
Chang Feng-yi (張烽益), executive director of the Taiwan Labor and Social Policy Research Association, said the big tax break is an unjust clause, unless the country of the foreign professional also gives Taiwanese nationals similar tax breaks.
Lai also argued that the six-month waiting period for national health insurance enrollment was implemented for a reason – to prevent foreigners from using work as a cover for coming to Taiwan for cheap medical treatment.
In response, the NDC’s Chen said the tax break is to make Taiwan more appealing to foreign talent, while existing data show that foreign professionals and their spouses contribute more to the national health insurance program than they receive from it.
Meanwhile, Taiwan Labour Front Secretary-General Son Yu-liam (孫友聯) questioned if the minimum monthly salary of NT$47,971 is reasonable, since the number was calculated in 2004.
He said statistics from the Ministry of Labor show that the average monthly salary of technical workers in the industrial and service sectors exceeded NT$66,000 last year, but the government continues to base its policies on salary levels from 13 years ago.
In response, Chen said the figures are indeed outdated, adding that her council advises the Ministry of Labor to review the Employment Service Act.
Seriously? How about cutting off service for all those Taiwan dual nationals who live abroad and contribute nothing to the country and come back when they have major illnesses to take advantage of the cheap medical treatment?
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They are supposed to be resident for six months also but they may be able to contribute from abroad somehow.
I was having theraphy for my foot and had to spend like 20 minutes listening to this “wise” Taiwanese woman lecturing another patient on how she was milking both US and Taiwan health systems, calling US insurance idjits. She had the audacity of saying paisei when I turned around.
Who will travel several thousand miles… ah, I know: their ever present fear of the Southern neighbors. But this is for white collars?! Still, it is a mirage, a reflection of themselves more than us.
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Question: have they finally fixe dthe baby loophole? Foreign babies in my mind should be born with NHI, as they are part of the mother, and contributed by the father too. So basically they have been paid for…
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I think so.
Yeah, that “play the system” mindset is shockingly common. I know Taiwanese in California who fly back to Taiwan every year for treatment…it’s a total bargain even when you factor in the air ticket. And they haven’t contributed to Taiwan’s economy in decades. And the ones who are retired military (there are tons in the U.S.) get free medical treatment on the taxpayer dime for life. It really steams my clams that I’m subsidizing their health care.
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