Exodus of People from Iran even Greater than in Iraq

Despite all the hyperbole and hand-wringing over the exodus of Iraqis from their nation, why no mention of the previous flights of Iraqis from their nation under Saddam, the huge refugee crisis in Afghanistan and the ongoing flight of Iranians from Iran? Let’s examine…

Also, for all the frenzied frazzle of the “interest” and “concern” shown on this forum regarding Guantanamo and the supposed “torture” that is occurring there (often mishandling of Korans), there is REAL and PERVASIVE torture, the real torture going on in Iran. What was that I hear? SILENCE. So much for the “moral” and “ethical” concerns of these individuals…


[quote]August 1, 2007 – THE way part of the West ern left portrays Iran, you’d think that it’s a pro gressive regime opposed by a few rich reactionaries beholden to the United States. American leftists like Michael Moore, Sean Penn and Noam Chomsky have persuaded themselves that anyone who shouts “Death to America!” is fighting for “repressed humanity.” The champagne-and-caviar socialists of Paris and London, meanwhile, claim that the only Iranians who oppose the mullahs are middle-class intellectuals who often have dual Iranian-U.S. citizenship - and, thus, deserve to be tortured in Tehran as hostages. In truth, however, the Islamic Republic, far from representing the poor masses of Iran, is an instrument of domination for a new class of rulers who control the national economy through oil revenues.

Over the last quarter-century, the mullahs and their relatives, plus and a few thousand military and security officers, have morphed into a nomenclatura. They have the best jobs, receive the most favors and enjoy priority access to goods, services and opportunities for social advancement.
The pre-revolution middle classes, formed over 150 years, have all but dissolved into poverty, with a good part finding refuge in exile.
[color=olive]An estimated 6.5 million Iranians, almost 10 percent of the country’s population, have emigrated. The International Monetary Fund reports that more than 150,000 educated Iranians flee the country each year, “the biggest brain drain in history.” [/color]

In fact, the most serious challenge to the new ruling class comes from what the left labels “the popular masses.” Spearheading the fight are groups of urban workers who have started to flex their muscles in the last two to three years. Starting next Thursday, these workers will confront President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s administration through a series of one-hour strikes to show solidarity with imprisoned trade unionists. The regime began a crackdown on independent trade unions last April. The Workers’ Organizations and Activists Coordinating Council (WOACC) notes that more than 600 labor leaders have been arrested or “made to disappear.” Another 4,500 workers have been dismissed, often without pay, on vague charges of “fomenting unrest” at various state-owned projects. The largest number of arrests came at the May 1 International Labor Day marches organized by the WOACC, representing independent trade unionists, in defiance of state-sponsored ceremonies.

Next week’s protests, however, will focus on two imprisoned independent union men:

  • Mahmoud Salehi, leader of the Union of Bakery Workers in Sanandaj, the capital of Iranian Kurdistan, was arrested April 9. Security men raided his home, beat up his family and carried him to an unknown destination. * Mansour Osanloo, president of the Tehran Bus Workers’ Union, was abducted July 10 on a Tehran street and thrown into Evin Prison, “The Islamic Alcatraz.” Salehi’s wife, Najibeh, says the union leader is seriously ill; rumors claim that one of his kidneys collapsed after weeks of torture designed to force him to offer televised “confessions.”

Salehi has not been formally charged; meanwhile, the state-controlled media spread false rumors - that he is a member of the Kurdish Communist Party, wants to detach the province from Iran and is working with Washington to bring “Jewish-Crusader democracy” to Iran. Salehi, 45, is a charismatic figure and magnetic orator. He started as an apprentice baker at aged 14, and in 2004 rose to become a founder of the city’s independent bakery workers’ union. A year later, he organized a “Day Without Bread” in support of hundreds of Kurdish intellectuals, teachers and workers imprisoned, often without charge. Later, Salehi achieved national stature by emerging as a key figure in creating WOACC, Iran’s first independent nationwide organization of workers, with branches in 18 of Iran’s 30 provinces. The day Osanlou was arrested, he had presided over a meeting of his executive committee that rejected new government rules. These ordered bus drivers and conductors not to admit passengers who violate the Islamic Dress Code, passed into law last May, and to restrict women passengers to buses’ back seats.

Osanloo’s lawyer, Parviz Khorshid, says that he hasn’t been allowed to visit his client and that his demand for a medical examination of the prisoner was rejected. The authorities have already disbanded the Iran Labor News Agency, an independent service covering the free union movement. They have also arrested 32 WOACC militants. Despite the repression, the movement seems to be picking up momentum. A strike has shut down the textile factories Sanandaj, Salehi’s hometown. In Asaluyeh, on the Persian Gulf, described by many as “the largest labor camp in the world,” the estimated 150,000 workers at a dozen oil and gas projects are expected to walk out.

Dozens of state-owned factories have come to a standstill as a result of strikes in Arak, Kermanshah, Alborz, Qazvin, Bushehr, Sari and several other cities. The good news is that Western trade unionists are beginning to pay attention to the struggle of their fellow workers. Several European unions have called for Salehi, Osanloo and other Iranian trade unionists to be released. There is some hope that American labor will follow. Somewhere along the line, the Western left may realize that it has been duped by a few anti-American slogans into supporting a regime that is dedicated to destroying whatever progressive ideals it once espoused. [/quote]

nypost.com/seven/08012007/po … htm?page=0

Yep. Invade and solve all of their problems for them.

Contempt from a man who has no issue with his President breaking the law, nor with he himself supporting torture, is ironic beyond the scales normally used to measure such things.

Contempt from a man who uses the direction of refugee flow to make any point he wishes has me blushing feeling shame for you.

We all feel revulsion for what happens in Iran and to suggest otherwise to justify your support for criminal activity, or to deflect criticism, is disgraceful.

Have contempt for yourself for a change, sir. You truly deserve it.

My my my… What lovely grandstanding from our own Muzhaman. So we all “feel revulsion” do we? yet choose not to express it because… er… why?

And I think that there is a little bitty difference between my personal support of using waterboarding or at the very least making it available and the beating of a person to the degree that they lose the functions of their kidneys. But apparently not to our moral stalwarts here. No siree.

Yes, contempt is the word and in double doses.

Most Iranians hate their government, but a fair number rally around it when the U.S. blusters against their country.

A difficult question is, how many of this out-migration consist basically of economic migrants? A fair number seem to go back for regular visits…

[quote=“Screaming Jesus”]Most Iranians hate their government, but a fair number rally around it when the U.S. blusters against their country.

A difficult question is, how many of this out-migration consist basically of economic migrants? A fair number seem to go back for regular visits…[/quote]

Of course they rally around their government when the USA gets a hard on for being tough; they have seen US ‘development’ at work next door and have no desire to see the electricity turned off, the taps dry up and their markets bombed. Ahmedinejad may not be every Iranian’s idea of a great leader but they’d take him over and above anything resembling what the Yanks regard as progress next door in Vietnam.

The Iranians will use thousands of years of fine Persian culture and an understanding of their own issues to resolve what differences they have rather than the experience of 200 odd years of consumerism that the Yanks use as a reference manual to execute gung-ho adventurism in foreign lands.


Persian ways? Oh, so then if torture of that kind is fine as it is a “fine 2,000-year old tradition” then I guess you will have no complaints about the American way given that it involved rare use of waterboarding under the most rigid of supervision? Also, to what extent are the difficulties in Iraq caused by America and to what extent are they caused by the Iranians, Syrians, Saudis and al Qaeda?

Haven’t you been paying attention yankstain? Watch the news. No Electricity, no water, no security. Perhaps the Iranians are just trying to prevent the spread of your burger-led soda pop paradise over their own borders. After all you meddled in south east Asia and central America to stop the spread of communism. They are doing the same to stop the spread of Americanism on their own doorstep. No difference.

If you had invaded Northern Ireland in support of the Papists, I am pretty sure that you would have found yourself up againsta well-organised insurgency funded and manned by the English. And you would have lost. Easily.

Haha. Bang Bang. You’re Dead.


To the color of shit? Why should I?

Electricity levels are similar nationwide. I think that you are just talking about the redistribution of power to the rest of the country. As to the insecurity, who’s blowing whom up? and where and how?


Yes, but our way is the right way. Communism is evil.

We only fight in defense of civilization. ergh.

That’s entirely possible. So this is hell? Talking to you about “weighty” matters? Oh dear. I hope this doesn’t last long. I repent. God forgive me.

Yes, but our way is the right way. Communism is evil.


That isn’t an argument. That’s your perspective. So if meddling to defend your perspective is OK, then by extension, from their perspective, meddling in Iraq is also OK. Ergo, regardless of perspective, meddling in another land to prevent the spread of any ‘-ism’ is OK. Problems arise when two meddlers find themselves in one place meddling from their own perspectives to prevent opposite ‘-isms’ from spreading. Iran is meddling in Iraq, the US is meddling in Iraq. Each, from their own perspective, is right and two rights don’t make a wrong so therefore meddling is OK. So we’re agreed then?

In the long term, my money is on Iran. You lot are running out of balls to meddle much longer.


Wanna bet?

Remember Bush and Cheney are leaving office in 2009 and they have nothing to lose, not a thing… get my drift…

How IS the Iranian airforce these days?

[quote=“fred smith”]Wanna bet?

Remember Bush and Cheney are leaving office in 2009 and they have nothing to lose, not a thing… get my drift…[/quote]

I count four balls, two of which aren’t guaranteed to have a heart to pump the blood through.

Is that the extent of your prowess?


fred, there’s a marvelous new device called a dictionary. In it you can look up the meaning of words, such as “emigrant” and “refugee”.

Great. So explain to me why there are so many “emigrants” from Iran? Glowing success of the leadership? People happy with political oppression and economic malaise? OH, I see! ONLY American actions can create “refugees.” Right? That is why the fact that 4.5 million Afghan “emigrants” have returned to their nation since the US removed the Taliban is not noteworthy. Only the 2 million that have left Iraq are right? Gotcha!

Click here for some catchy Iranian rap music.
Alternative URL for the same.

International Organisation of Iranian Refugees (Could be interesting if you know Farsi.)

Iran arrests 230 in raid on illegal rock concert (AFP)

That is why the fact that 4.5 million Afghan “emigrants” have returned to their nation since the US removed the Taliban is not noteworthy. Only the 2 million that have left Iraq are right? Gotcha![/quote]

Prove those figures Fido. Shouldn’t it be more like 2 million Afghan returnees and 4 million left Iraq? Am willing to stand corrected but don’t know why we should take your figures as “fact”


[quote]Afghanistan, Pakistan and the UN Refugee Agency (UNHCR) on Thursday extended the tripartite agreement governing the voluntary repatriation of registered Afghans from Pakistan for another three years.

The Agreement was signed by Ms.Judy Cheng-Hopkins, Assistant High Commissioner for Refugees, Mohammad Akbar Akbar, the acting Afghan Minister for Refugees and Repatriation (MoRR) and Sardar Yar Mohammad Rind, Minister for States and Frontier Regions (SAFRON) in Pakistan.

The tripartite agreement provides the legal and operational framework for the voluntary repatriation of Afghans from Pakistan.

To date, more than 3 million Afghans have returned from Pakistan under the voluntary repatriation programme since 2002.

There are approximately 2.05 million registered Afghans remaining in Pakistan.

Ms. Judy Cheng-Hopkins welcomed the renewal of the agreement. "I am delighted at the spirit of cooperation in which Afghanistan and Pakistan have been discussing this issue and have renewed the Agreement.

By doing so, they have again recognized and have demonstrated their ongoing commitment to the principles of voluntary, gradual and sustainable returns that are enshrined in the Agreement,"
Ms. Cheng-Hopkins said.

She is currently on a ten day mission in the region. In the past few days, she has been visiting Afghanistan where more than 4 million Afghans have returned home so far. [/quote]

www2.irna.ir/en/news/view/line-1 … 192607.htm

then there is this…

[quote]As the fourth year of war nears its end, the Middle East’s largest refugee crisis since the Palestinian exodus from Israel in 1948 is unfolding in a climate of fear, persecution and tragedy.

Nearly 2 million Iraqis – about 8 percent of the prewar population – have embarked on a desperate migration, mostly to Jordan, Syria and Lebanon, according to the U.N. High Commissioner for Refugees. The refugees include large numbers of doctors, academics and other professionals vital for Iraq’s recovery. Another 1.7 million have been forced to move to safer towns and villages inside Iraq[/quote]

washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co … 01604.html

So with 4 million Afghan refugees returning and many others still living in Pakistan and Iraq, one wonders how this Iraqi refugee crisis is the “largest since the Palestinian exodus.” More hyperbole from our journalist friends?

But… we had at least 4 million Iraqis living outside the nation when Saddam was ruling the country, so this is not even the largest in Iraqi history much less the history of the Middle East…

[quote]Aired March 6, 2003 - 17:00:00 ET


JONATHAN MANN, CNN ANCHOR: The other Iraqis. Millions of (AUDIO GAP) fled Saddam Hussein’s Iraq, they worry about what’s ahead for the people they left behind.
Hello and welcome.

It is a striking fact, but hardly a surprise when you think about it. A lot of people have done their best to get away from Baghdad.

There are 22 million people in Iraq, and there may be 4 million Iraqis who have left. They’ve distanced themselves as best they can from a police state, a ruined economy and a government on a collision course with the West. They have tried to stay close, though, to the people who are still there, and who now face a ruinous war.[/quote]

transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ … ns.01.html