Fair vote-counting in Taiwan?

youtube.com/watch?v=xBZi6HqDwcQ

After watching the Scottish election maybe get stolen with credible allegations of vote counting. I was annoyed on Saturday. Wretched, even. But lo! A bolt of hope: I explained what happened to my gf and she just laughed and told me:

In Taiwanese elections they:

[i]- Count the votes in school classrooms.

  • All counters are monitored.
  • Cameras in every classroom.
  • Each vote is declared, held up to the audience and tallied on a whiteboard.
    [/i]
    Is that right?

I’m not sure if this is for national elections or local ones. If anyone knows a credible source on this I’d be grateful. A link to a Chinese site is fine. I’m googling now but not having much luck. I’m currently chatting to Scottish independence campaigners and they’re trying to work out a better system. Allegations of voter fraud have no broken in the mainstream London press:

theguardian.com/politics/201 … -petitions

metro.co.uk/2014/09/19/scottish- … s-4874786/

OK, thanks if anyone can help…

Is this because you went to vote and the ladies working the polls were snickering and gossiping about you? :ponder:

[quote=“HenHaoChi”]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBZi6HqDwcQ

After watching the Scottish election maybe get stolen with credible allegations of vote counting. I was annoyed on Saturday. Wretched, even. But lo! A bolt of hope: I explained what happened to my gf and she just laughed and told me:

In Taiwanese elections they:

[i]- Count the votes in school classrooms.

  • All counters are monitored.
  • Cameras in every classroom.
  • Each vote is declared, held up to the audience and tallied on a whiteboard.
    [/i]
    Is that right?

I’m not sure if this is for national elections or local ones. If anyone knows a credible source on this I’d be grateful. A link to a Chinese site is fine. I’m googling now but not having much luck. I’m currently chatting to Scottish independence campaigners and they’re trying to work out a better system. Allegations of voter fraud have no broken in the mainstream London press:

theguardian.com/politics/201 … -petitions

metro.co.uk/2014/09/19/scottish- … s-4874786/

OK, thanks if anyone can help…[/quote]

For Taiwan, yes that’s correct.

I don’t have a link but have personally witnessed it, as well as sat in the official election tally room during the 2012 elections and seen what happens there.

[quote]For Taiwan, yes that’s correct.

I don’t have a link but have personally witnessed it, as well as sat in the official election tally room during the 2012 elections and seen what happens there.[/quote]

Awesome. Thanks. Is there anything I’ve missed out? Do they really declare each vote to the room? That must slow things down a bit… There goes the UK backslapping itself about being the mother of democracy, and we’re way behind the times on vote-counting.

[quote=“HenHaoChi”][quote]For Taiwan, yes that’s correct.

I don’t have a link but have personally witnessed it, as well as sat in the official election tally room during the 2012 elections and seen what happens there.[/quote]

Awesome. Thanks. Is there anything I’ve missed out? Do they really declare each vote to the room? That must slow things down a bit… There goes the UK backslapping itself about being the mother of democracy, and we’re way behind the times on vote-counting.[/quote]

Yes, every vote. There are some pics at craigfergusonimages.com/2012 … elections/

That’s useful. Scotland thanks you! I’ll have a look at that article. It has everything I need.

worth reading:

Thanks Sofun. I can’t read for love nor money but it sure looks pretty. I’ve forwarded it to Ironlady. She’ll handle all my correspondance for now.

Scotland are really interested in this. They are mad as hell right now.

What’s the difference between an angry Scotsman and a pitbull?

You can negotiate with a pitbull.

The book title says “A Penitent Chronicle of Vote Buying
Subtitled: [i]a true confession of an ChiNats employee, who for 24 years was in charge of vote-buying and vote-rigging for her Party. /i]

Thanks, my gf translated it last night.

The TW system is still a hell of a lot better than the Scottish debacle.

[quote=“HenHaoChi”]Thanks, my gf translated it last night.

The TW system is still a hell of a lot better than the Scottish debacle.[/quote]

In the upcoming Taipei Mayor election, vote-rigging will happen. There are citizen organizers who wrote to the Election Office petitioning video recording during vote count. The petition was denied.

This is the latest news, on social media.

Corporate media filtered it out.

[quote=“sofun”][quote=“HenHaoChi”]Thanks, my gf translated it last night.

The TW system is still a hell of a lot better than the Scottish debacle.[/quote]

In the upcoming Taipei Mayor election, vote-rigging will happen. There are citizen organizers who wrote to the Election Office petitioning video recording during vote count. The petition was denied.

This is the latest news, on social media.

Corporate media filtered it out.[/quote]

Vote buying may happen beforehand. Both sides routinely do it. But I call BS on the rest - have you ever been in the election center? I have, it’s full of TV cameras and journalists, where everything gets double-checked. Unless they’re all in on it, as well as the election monitors representing each party, plus the various police and other security officials present, plus any random person who finds themselves in there.

Maybe in Taiwan. Not so in Scotland. Are you talking about all elections or just in Taiwan. I think you do it great here.

Look at this:

youtube.com/watch?v=vCKOemY … pp=desktop

[quote=“cfimages”][quote=“sofun”][quote=“HenHaoChi”]Thanks, my gf translated it last night.

The TW system is still a hell of a lot better than the Scottish debacle.[/quote]

In the upcoming Taipei Mayor election, vote-rigging will happen. There are citizen organizers who wrote to the Election Office petitioning video recording during vote count. The petition was denied.

This is the latest news, on social media.

Corporate media filtered it out.[/quote]

Vote buying may happen beforehand. Both sides routinely do it. But I call BS on the rest - have you ever been in the election center? I have, it’s full of TV cameras and journalists, where everything gets double-checked. Unless they’re all in on it, as well as the election monitors representing each party, plus the various police and other security officials present, plus any random person who finds themselves in there.[/quote]
No. The Election Office has said they will not allow citizens to video record VOTE COUNTING. They said so unabashedly.
Doesn’t matter coz it’s on corporate news now.
Like I said, it’s not about democracy. It’s just that ChiNats are more evil than one would think. That’s all.

facebook.com/groups/twobservers/
observers.tw

[quote=“HenHaoChi”]Maybe in Taiwan. Not so in Scotland. Are you talking about all elections or just in Taiwan. I think you do it great here.

Look at this:

youtube.com/watch?v=vCKOemY … pp=desktop[/quote]

HenHao, here are some ideas that you might find useful. Whether it is effective remains to be seen. But it shows you how informed and responsible Formosan are organizing socially and intellectually.

observers.tw
facebook.com/groups/twobservers/

[quote=“sofun”][quote=“cfimages”][quote=“sofun”][quote=“HenHaoChi”]Thanks, my gf translated it last night.

The TW system is still a hell of a lot better than the Scottish debacle.[/quote]

In the upcoming Taipei Mayor election, vote-rigging will happen. There are citizen organizers who wrote to the Election Office petitioning video recording during vote count. The petition was denied.

This is the latest news, on social media.

Corporate media filtered it out.[/quote]

Vote buying may happen beforehand. Both sides routinely do it. But I call BS on the rest - have you ever been in the election center? I have, it’s full of TV cameras and journalists, where everything gets double-checked. Unless they’re all in on it, as well as the election monitors representing each party, plus the various police and other security officials present, plus any random person who finds themselves in there.[/quote]
No. The Election Office has said they will not allow citizens to video record VOTE COUNTING. They said so unabashedly.
Doesn’t matter because it’s on corporate news now.
Like I said, it’s not about democracy. It’s just that ChiNats are more evil than one would think. That’s all.

facebook.com/groups/twobservers/
observers.tw[/quote]

There’s no reason for everyday citizens to record it. The media, observers, party reps etc are on hand however.

[quote=“cfimages”][quote=“sofun”][quote=“cfimages”][quote=“sofun”][quote=“HenHaoChi”]Thanks, my gf translated it last night.

The TW system is still a hell of a lot better than the Scottish debacle.[/quote]

In the upcoming Taipei Mayor election, vote-rigging will happen. There are citizen organizers who wrote to the Election Office petitioning video recording during vote count. The petition was denied.

This is the latest news, on social media.

Corporate media filtered it out.[/quote]

Vote buying may happen beforehand. Both sides routinely do it. But I call BS on the rest - have you ever been in the election center? I have, it’s full of TV cameras and journalists, where everything gets double-checked. Unless they’re all in on it, as well as the election monitors representing each party, plus the various police and other security officials present, plus any random person who finds themselves in there.[/quote]
No. The Election Office has said they will not allow citizens to video record VOTE COUNTING. They said so unabashedly.
Doesn’t matter because it’s on corporate news now.
Like I said, it’s not about democracy. It’s just that ChiNats are more evil than one would think. That’s all.

facebook.com/groups/twobservers/
observers.tw[/quote]

There’s no reason for everyday citizens to record it. The media, observers, party reps etc are on hand however.[/quote]

There’s every reason. We have every right. Especially considering multiple 20-21st century worldwide precedents of vote counting. Governments are subordinate to the electorate. They are serving us in an administrative role. There should be 5 live feed iphones behind every single counter. Why not?

Sofun, thanks. I’ll check them out later. The Scottish Parliament might well read this thread within a few weeks.

[quote=“HenHaoChi”][quote=“cfimages”][quote=“sofun”][quote=“cfimages”][quote=“sofun”][quote=“HenHaoChi”]Thanks, my gf translated it last night.

The TW system is still a hell of a lot better than the Scottish debacle.[/quote]

In the upcoming Taipei Mayor election, vote-rigging will happen. There are citizen organizers who wrote to the Election Office petitioning video recording during vote count. The petition was denied.

This is the latest news, on social media.

Corporate media filtered it out.[/quote]

Vote buying may happen beforehand. Both sides routinely do it. But I call BS on the rest - have you ever been in the election center? I have, it’s full of TV cameras and journalists, where everything gets double-checked. Unless they’re all in on it, as well as the election monitors representing each party, plus the various police and other security officials present, plus any random person who finds themselves in there.[/quote]
No. The Election Office has said they will not allow citizens to video record VOTE COUNTING. They said so unabashedly.
Doesn’t matter because it’s on corporate news now.
Like I said, it’s not about democracy. It’s just that ChiNats are more evil than one would think. That’s all.

facebook.com/groups/twobservers/
observers.tw[/quote]

There’s no reason for everyday citizens to record it. The media, observers, party reps etc are on hand however.[/quote]

There’s every reason. We have every right. Especially considering multiple 20-21st century worldwide precedents of vote counting. Governments are subordinate to the electorate. They are serving us in an administrative role. There should be 5 live feed iphones behind every single counter. Why not?

[/quote]

Because every vote is already held up and displayed to election officials, representatives from each party, international observers, any media present and anyone who has a legit reason to be in there. Polling generally takes place in classrooms and the like - once all those people are in, there’s not a lot of room left. When you already have at least 4 different segments overseeing things, there’s not really much need for a 5th.

[quote=“cfimages”][quote=“HenHaoChi”][quote=“cfimages”][quote=“sofun”][quote=“cfimages”][quote=“sofun”][quote=“HenHaoChi”]Thanks, my gf translated it last night.

The TW system is still a hell of a lot better than the Scottish debacle.[/quote]

In the upcoming Taipei Mayor election, vote-rigging will happen. There are citizen organizers who wrote to the Election Office petitioning video recording during vote count. The petition was denied.

This is the latest news, on social media.

Corporate media filtered it out.[/quote]

Vote buying may happen beforehand. Both sides routinely do it. But I call BS on the rest - have you ever been in the election center? I have, it’s full of TV cameras and journalists, where everything gets double-checked. Unless they’re all in on it, as well as the election monitors representing each party, plus the various police and other security officials present, plus any random person who finds themselves in there.[/quote]
No. The Election Office has said they will not allow citizens to video record VOTE COUNTING. They said so unabashedly.
Doesn’t matter because it’s on corporate news now.
Like I said, it’s not about democracy. It’s just that ChiNats are more evil than one would think. That’s all.

facebook.com/groups/twobservers/
observers.tw[/quote]

There’s no reason for everyday citizens to record it. The media, observers, party reps etc are on hand however.[/quote]

There’s every reason. We have every right. Especially considering multiple 20-21st century worldwide precedents of vote counting. Governments are subordinate to the electorate. They are serving us in an administrative role. There should be 5 live feed iphones behind every single counter. Why not?

[/quote]

Because every vote is already held up and displayed to election officials, representatives from each party, international observers, any media present and anyone who has a legit reason to be in there. Polling generally takes place in classrooms and the like - once all those people are in, there’s not a lot of room left. When you already have at least 4 different segments overseeing things, there’s not really much need for a 5th.[/quote]

Dr. Ko is an independent candidate, and the DPP has no candidate. The ChinNats have said that they are taking advantage of this loophole by not permitting individual citizens to monitor vote count.

[quote=“HenHaoChi”]Maybe in Taiwan. Not so in Scotland. Are you talking about all elections or just in Taiwan. I think you do it great here.

Look at this:

youtube.com/watch?v=vCKOemY … pp=desktop[/quote]

by the way, the video makes me sick. For some reason, I feel insulted and humiliated just as much. (If you know what I mean)

Horrible…