Fake Degrees

Work Teaching English in Taiwan
21

[quote=“jangmi”]It’s true in Taiwan, but I don’t know how many.
chinapost.com.tw/taiwan/2008 … t-fake.htm (News in English)
chinapost.com.tw/taiwan/2007 … %25-of.htm (News in English)
epochtimes.com/b5/5/6/12/n952521.htm (News in Chinese)[/quote]

One of those is about Taiwanese healthcare workers buying fake degrees. The one about English teachers has very dubious numbers: 40%? No way! That’s just speculation and xenophobic kaka. The other is from the Epoch Times so must be garbage. :wink:

They definitely checked my degree: it was queried a couple of times because the certificate’s in Latin. Not queried to the extent that they contacted my university, not that my university would have confirmed or denied whether it was genuine anyway.

They should hire English native speaking 'tard-sniffers to root out fakers. A short interview: 22yr old male Canadian FOB with shorts and a backpack. ‘So, sonny, Harvard Law School eh? Tell me about …’

22

[quote=“Buttercup”]

On the other hand, accepting that Taiwan can’t afford a legion of qualified native English speaking ESL teachers, is it too much to respect the government’s one pre-requisite? And what’s the cut-off point for that argument? High-school leaving certificates don’t make you a great teacher either. How else are people who may not speak English as a first language supposed to choose employees? The size of their ears?[/quote]
No, they can rely on the common Taiwanese idea that all white people speak English perfectly, and no non-white people do.
The Taiwanese authorities certainly do check the degrees now, but seem to have little idea what is and isn’t legit. Thus degrees printed in Latin are questioned, for example. They don’t seem to go so far as to check whether the university granting the degree even exists, or at least not all the time. I’ve met people teaching with fake degrees. The government doesn’t seem to know, just for a few examples, that the Universities of Alberta, Calgary, British Columbia, Saskatchewan, Western Ontario, Ottawa, and Toronto are all legitimate Canadian universities, but that the Universities of Ontario, Saskatoon, and Edmonton aren’t.

23

well…even though many people here have REAL degrees…they are still lying and doing illegal work by teaching children under the age of 6. This used to be legal…but not anymore.

And it’s hard to make enough money by just teaching the legal age, because your hours per day will be so much less. You don’t make an insane amount of money by working here anymore…7 years ago I was making a killing for 4 hours a day …now friends back home are making the same AND they get to be near their families and friends.

24

[quote=“bababa”][quote=“Buttercup”]

On the other hand, accepting that Taiwan can’t afford a legion of qualified native English speaking ESL teachers, is it too much to respect the government’s one pre-requisite? And what’s the cut-off point for that argument? High-school leaving certificates don’t make you a great teacher either. How else are people who may not speak English as a first language supposed to choose employees? The size of their ears?[/quote]
No, they can rely on the common Taiwanese idea that all white people speak English perfectly, and no non-white people do.
The Taiwanese authorities certainly do check the degrees now, but seem to have little idea what is and isn’t legit. Thus degrees printed in Latin are questioned, for example. They don’t seem to go so far as to check whether the university granting the degree even exists, or at least not all the time. I’ve met people teaching with fake degrees. The government doesn’t seem to know, just for a few examples, that the Universities of Alberta, Calgary, British Columbia, Saskatchewan, Western Ontario, Ottawa, and Toronto are all legitimate Canadian universities, but that the Universities of Ontario, Saskatoon, and Edmonton aren’t.[/quote]

heh, my old roommate had a fake from saskatoon

25

I know two Canadians who have fake degrees printed up in Taipei back in 2002. They’re still here, still teaching, and still using those fake degrees to get employment when they change their jobs. However, one of them recently married a Taiwanese and is now going through the hassle (Federal Background Check) of getting the JFRV. Although he’s now married, he’ll still need to use the fake degree to continue proving he’s a “qualified” English teacher. Hmmm :ponder:

26

I know someone who taught here for years with a fake degree…went home for half a year, came back, and then got asked for the original. Seems like it was ok to just reapply, the guy at the desk propably thought that the original was used the first time…

27

[quote=“tommy525”]
One of those is about Taiwanese healthcare workers buying fake degrees. [/quote]
It’s my intention: Fake degrees exixt everywhere.

[color=#0000BF]The 3rd story: About Fake Degrees…[/color]
My first foreign English teacher who taught English in Taiwan for many years only had a high-school diploma. (Please read my last post: The 2nd story.) The reason he decided to leave Taiwan was that he was not allowed to teach here anymore, but I did not know the details. Surprisingly, several months later, he went back with a B.A. degree and a friend and both of them got teaching jobs in Taiwan. My ex-teacher was as professional as before when his friend taught terribly. Afterwards his friend, the foreign English teacher who also had a fake degree, was caught by the cram school, because he was so unskilled that students’ parents queried his qualification. However, my ex-teacher was caught as well by police officers’ investigation. Finally they both were forced to leave Taiwan. My conclusion: Just show your professionalism even you have a fake degree because nobody would doubt you; moreover, keep it in secret if you have had a fake degree already. Good luck! :wink:

28

jangmi, I’m really not sure what your point is.

29

I temped this of Sandman’s along with some amusing and surreal posts. But apparently it was serious. So here it is again. Quicker if I just quote it and then Maoman doesn’t have to fish it out of Temp.

There’s not a fulltime career in it, but speaking from experience, you can certainly pad your income a bit. I paid for most of my last motorcycle from “rewards” for grassing off silly young Canookian tits. It’s all about knowing to whom to sell the information.[/quote]

30

Interesting points being made! It seems we would not have this discussion if the Taiwan school system here was worth a damn. First and foremost any business and leadership starts from the top. These people simply rape parents and children alike out of both money and education. The owners of these buxibans could care less about a fake degree or not! The bottom line is it’s all about money and nothing more. Buttercup, you can give this great speech about how it’s so very important to have a degree ect… I see your degree defines who you are and what you are about. I’ve got a degree and didn’t begin to learn until I began to travel and live in different countries. I know very successful people who are just as intelligent as I am, (my father being one of them) without a degree. Education is not defined by a piece paper, its defined by your willingness to learn and through experiences. How many people that teach here with a degree even went to school to be a teacher? Also, if you are a “real” teacher, then why teach here in Taiwan? Go somewhere where you’re appreciated and we can all be saved from your B.S. in “What it necessary to be a real teacher in Taiwan”! :hand:

31

[quote=“cjj31”]Buttercup, you can give this great speech about how it’s so very important to have a degree ect… I see your degree defines who you are and what you are about.
I’ve got a degree and didn’t begin to learn until I began to travel and live in different countries. [/quote]

My degree does not ‘define me’ (I’m in my mid 30s), although it has got me lots of jobs. Without an academic background in linguistics, there is absolutely no way I would have my current job. I didn’t learn a damn about corpus analysis while backpacking. I’ve written this about 400 times already on forumosa already, but I think initial training is very important, as is a reflective and self-developmental attitude to teaching and and work. I think people who reject training in basic technique with hostility, out of arrogance or out of some kind of weird racism (Taiwanese people don’t care/can’t pay so why should I bother?) are fooling themselves and failing to make the most of their opportunities.

I don’t, I work in publishing. I quit teaching in 2008, although I do a little volunteer stuff. However, I was a teacher for ten years, in four different countries, including my ‘home country’ where I have worked with adults and teenagers in both private institutions and government places.

Why the hostility? Nobody is impugning your father’s intelligence. Why do you equate intelligence with teaching technique? Or did you just want to vent? That’s fine, I know it can be frustrating.

32

[quote=“housecat”][quote=“pubba”]Even Thailand is checking now, and I have heard people typing up their own ‘degree’ and printing it out while waiting for job interviews there in the past.

Korea is very strict - you need a degree plus 2 x sealed transcripts from the university. I wonder if Taiwan will follow this rule in the future?

Japan is a mixed bag from what I have heard. Some schools will accept a photo copy while others do the whole transcript, phone call check etc…[/quote]

This is interesting about Korea. They used to be very easy and I met many degreeless wankers when I was there–that was 96 or 97. I hear they are getting much, much stricter. Lots of new regulations–but I hadn’t heard of the need for 2 sealed copys of the scripts.

Tougher regs everywhere can only be a good thing for ESL–and for the degreeless wankers who will be forced to get on with their lives. (Meaning NO offense to the OP, of course, but really, simply being a native speaker doesn’t make you a teacher.)[/quote]

Tougher regulations will get rid of frauds and unqualified people, but it will also get rid of quality teachers who no longer meet the new requirements. In 2002, Korea switched from two year diplomas to 4 year only (or 3 year from UK universities, IIRC) and many competent teachers were forced out of Korea simply because the law changed, not those people’s capability as teachers.

I have to wonder if/when Taiwan will do the same; it seems to be the only place left where a 4 year degree is not the minimum, including countries that would be deemed “third world”. I’ve lost count of the number of people with 4 year degrees living in Korea or Taiwan who either (a) cannot read or write proper English, or (b) never held a job in their life, getting a job simply because they have a degree. Teaching is not an interruption of a paid holiday, it’s your job (for those who are hired as teachers, of course), yet some young’uns treat it that way - hell, some older people do too.

Korea went overboard on restrictions after the pedophile was arrested in Thailand a while back. They went beyond cautious to being downright impossible; people with track records of good work and no history of impropriety had a hard time getting records and were forced to leave. All they ended up doing was creating a labour shortage and making it easier for people to find illegal work, rather than solving the problem of weeding out bad people. And also western countries do their honest citizens no favours by making it difficult (at best) to get such paperwork if it’s needed.

33

As I agree with you in saying that basic training in a related field is important, however it’s not the only way. A self-developmental attitude does not only include one’s desire to study in school. It also derives from basic hard work in life, and obstacles we endure as a result of life itself. You shouldn’t be so quick to judge people cause they don’t have a degree. A person not having a degree, doesn’t make them arrogant or racist towards going with mainstream thinking. Everyone is not as fortunate as you an I in regards to the resources we’ve received in attaining our degrees in our related fields.

I’m not trying to say that you’re impugning on my father’s or anyone’s intelligence cause you nor anyone else are qualified to do so. A bit arrogant on your part to think otherwise and even mention it. Equating intelligence with teaching is what you insinuated; not me.

34

[quote=“cjj31”]As I agree with you in saying that basic training in a related field is important, however it’s not the only way. A self-developmental attitude does not only include one’s desire to study in school. It also derives from basic hard work in life, and obstacles we endure as a result of life itself. You shouldn’t be so quick to judge people cause they don’t have a degree. A person not having a degree, doesn’t make them arrogant or racist towards going with mainstream thinking. Everyone is not as fortunate as you an I in regards to the resources we’ve received in attaining our degrees in our related fields.

I’m not trying to say that you’re impugning on my father’s or anyone’s intelligence cause you nor anyone else are qualified to do so. A bit arrogant on your part to think otherwise and even mention it. Equating intelligence with teaching is what you insinuated; not me.[/quote]

Nonsense and backpedalling. Whaddeva, little d00d.

35

The government never looks at anyone’s original. A photo copy is always submitted for your work permit.

36

I can’t believe this thread has so many pages. Isn’t it clear fake degrees are for liars and losers? What more is there to say?

37

That’s more or less what I thought too at first. It’s funny it’s attracted a lot more views than most recent threads. Quite a few pages worth have been split off already too. A fair amount of the discussion is really more about the value of a degree than fake degrees in themselves though. I’ve considered splitting that part to [url=Value of training, degrees and qualifications thread[/url] but I have a feeling it might kill the discussion :slight_smile:

Since things have quieted down here I sent a lot of the more recent posts to that [url=Value of training, degrees and qualifications degrees and qualifications"[/url] thread for better future reference.

38

[quote=“joesax”]I temped this of Sandman’s along with some amusing and surreal posts. But apparently it was serious. So here it is again. Quicker if I just quote it and then Maoman doesn’t have to fish it out of Temp.

There’s not a fulltime career in it, but speaking from experience, you can certainly pad your income a bit. I paid for most of my last motorcycle from “rewards” for grassing off silly young Canookian tits. It’s all about knowing to whom to sell the information.[/quote][/quote]

Sandman, share the knowledge.

I don’t need the reward money. I need their jobs.

39

[quote]

Sandman, share the knowledge.

I don’t need the reward money. I need their jobs.[/quote]

I never thought of it like that, but I like what I am hearing.

40

I was told at a school today that they would be fined ‘between 100,000 and 150,000’ if they submitted a fake degree to apply for an ARC.

Bullshit or not? This is new to me and seems overly harsh.