Falklands -- Part II

Considering they were whipped pretty good the first time, I don’t think the Argentinians would try to retake the Falklands again? Although, I’d like to see the British kick some ass again. :uk:

news.scotsman.com/politics.cfm?id=296232006

You can’t be serious.

HG

I don’t want my compatriots to get themselves killed trying to keep Argentinians off an Argentinian island.

Let them have their sheep, I say.

I’m with you, mate. Las Islas Malvinas estan Argentinas.

Me too. A fucking disgrace. But that blondie twit – what was his name? Heseltine, wasn’t it? – sure looked dashing in his cammo gear on the telly. I thought that was the whole point of the thing.

All the Falklands War achieved was to make Margaret Thatcher and her son very rich, both having invested heavily in arms some time previously.

But we did get to keep the sheep. And the grass.

I hate to be on chewy’s side but does ‘self-determination’ mean anything to anyone?

(PS there might be oil as well :wink: )

The Malvinos/Falklands dispute was the most obscene I’d seen in ages. Two supposedly civilised nations destroying their youth for what? What was the upside? Dressed in archaic bullshit, take a farking look . . . was this worth a lump of sheep shit? Chewy, you goin’ to have to work hard to restore my belief your ideas are anything but shit after this.

The hype:

The reality. You may recall they banned maimed veterans from the memorial.
http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~jjphoto/falklands%20hero

And how farking interesting is that, eh? I recall pictures of the maimed of that time, but those images are very hard to find now. However, I can find oodles of heroic bullshit. It reminds me of what my gran said about the maimed in the WWI. I remember her saying, “whatever happened to all those horribly maimed men, you just don’t see them anymore.”

HG

As a Brit, and a proud one at that, I too would not wish to see any further deaths over such a waste of space as the Falklands. :loco: The 1982 war was all about Thatcher and the Cons government at the time gaining respect and support at home after governing so badly in the first few years. I know it may sound a conspiracy but I am convinced we let them invade to allow us to gloriously take them back and wave the flag one last time! Problem now is, even if we wanted to, we couldn’t do it again as we have just about no ships left! Sad state of affairs for a once great navy :frowning: Give em back to Argentina and let anyone who wants to remain British have a passport to Blighty! Then send the sheep to Wales where they will be more than welcome :smiley:

[quote=“Huang Guang Chen”] Chewy, you goin’ to have to work hard to restore my belief your ideas are anything but shit after this.

HG[/quote]

Well, we can agree to disagree and still remain friends, right? :wink: My first statement may have been slightly aggressive, but I do consider the 1982 war to be a ‘just war’.

The war was a response to agression. This principle is central to the just war tradition and is firmly enshrined in international law in Article 51 of the United Nations Charter, the 1928 Kellogg-Briand Pact, and the Nuremberg Charter. When the de facto British territory was attacked on April 2, 1982, there was a prima-facie right of violent response.

The civil population were by and large well treated by the occupation force but the fact remains that they were entirely at the whim of a notorious totalitarian regime which had an unenviable reputation for atrocity against its own people. They would have had plenty of grounds to fear that once the new status quo had become accepted, any show of disagreement or dissent on their part could result in their joining the ranks of the ‘disappeared’.

You can bad mouth Maggie all you want. Hell, when I was a left wing student I used to despise her. But if I were a Falklander in 1982, I wouldn’t want those murderous thugs in Buenos Aires ruling over me.

I’m with you, mate. Las Islas Malvinas estan Argentinas.[/quote]

The islands have been British territory since before Argentina was even a nation. They were settled by British citizens, not Argentines, who have been living there for nearly two centuries. The only legal standing for the claim Argentina has is that “the islands are geographically close to our country, so they must be ours” which is not a recognized international principal by the U.N. Self-determination, however, is a recognized international principal, as are the treaties between the U.K., France, and Spain dating back to the 19th century ceding sovereignty to the U.K. over those islands in the South Atlantic.

Of course my post isn’t advocating as stupid as war over a pile of desolate rocks in the middle of precisely nowhere, just clearing up a point: Argentina has no legitimate legal claim over the Falkland Islands. If they want to dispute the U.K.'s claim, they can do it through the same legal, civilized channels Spain has repeatedly tried to wrestle back Gibraltar. Notice that Spain hasn’t stupidly threatened war over Gibraltar and respected the international norms of self-determination, even though the Gibraltarians have voted in referendum to remain British territory.

The 1982 war was instigated by the Argentine military junta to distract from the country’s ailing economic woes, and ironically led to their downfall. So some good did come out of that stupid war. As we all know, Argentina has been having some problems with its economy in the past few years…looks like history is repeating itself. Nothing like a good war to whip up patriotism and distract people from lack of jobs and destitute families. :unamused:

[quote=“Chewycorns”] I’d like to see the British kick some ass again. :uk:
[/quote]

What a vapid comment that is! Are you a member of The National Front? SIEG HEIL!

yeh, let’s see those poncey sassenach poseurs ( with a few good’ol boys, Scots, Irish & Welsh serving) whip some underfunded, ill-fed, conscript army whose officer corps (with minor exceptions) decieved and used them as a decoy to secure their own safe escape?

There’s always some friendly fire episode to factor in, usually a result of inter service rivalry:

:liar: “We can’t turn on our friendly force recognition unit, because those bahstaerds in the Other Services have rigged it so’s that the moment we turn that confounded contraption on, it interferes with our weapons systems. And We Can’t Have That. That Would Be The Thin Edge of The Wedge…”

For Anyone interested in a good account (from the Argentine pt. of view) of the Falklands/Malvinas Conflict should check out “The Argentine Fight For The Falklands”, by MARTIN MIDDLEBROOK. A great read!

I’m with you, mate. Las Islas Malvinas estan Argentinas.[/quote]

The islands have been British territory since before Argentina was even a nation. They were settled by British citizens, not Argentines, who have been living there for nearly two centuries. The only legal standing for the claim Argentina has is that “the islands are geographically close to our country, so they must be ours” which is not a recognized international principal by the U.N. Self-determination, however, is a recognized international principal, as are the treaties between the U.K., France, and Spain dating back to the 19th century ceding sovereignty to the U.K. over those islands in the South Atlantic.

Of course my post isn’t advocating as stupid as war over a pile of desolate rocks in the middle of precisely nowhere, just clearing up a point: Argentina has no legitimate legal claim over the Falkland Islands. If they want to dispute the U.K.'s claim, they can do it through the same legal, civilized channels Spain has repeatedly tried to wrestle back Gibraltar. Notice that Spain hasn’t stupidly threatened war over Gibraltar and respected the international norms of self-determination, even though the Gibraltarians have voted in referendum to remain British territory.

The 1982 war was instigated by the Argentine military junta to distract from the country’s ailing economic woes, and ironically led to their downfall. So some good did come out of that stupid war. As we all know, Argentina has been having some problems with its economy in the past few years…looks like history is repeating itself. Nothing like a good war to whip up patriotism and distract people from lack of jobs and destitute families. :unamused:[/quote]

Hear, hear.

Though of course at that time Maggie wanted to scrap the RN surface fleet in favour of Tridents, which would have left Britain nothing to reclaim the Falklands with.

[quote=“TheGingerMan”][quote=“Chewycorns”] I’d like to see the British kick some ass again. :uk:
[/quote][/quote]

A chickenhawk response.

I’m sure my friends who were there with the Paras would be overjoyed at your comment.

I’m with you, mate. Las Islas Malvinas estan Argentinas.[/quote]

The islands have been British territory since before Argentina was even a nation. They were settled by British citizens, not Argentines, who have been living there for nearly two centuries. The only legal standing for the claim Argentina has is that “the islands are geographically close to our country, so they must be ours” which is not a recognized international principal by the U.N. Self-determination, however, is a recognized international principal, as are the treaties between the U.K., France, and Spain dating back to the 19th century ceding sovereignty to the U.K. over those islands in the South Atlantic.

Of course my post isn’t advocating as stupid as war over a pile of desolate rocks in the middle of precisely nowhere, just clearing up a point: Argentina has no legitimate legal claim over the Falkland Islands. If they want to dispute the U.K.'s claim, they can do it through the same legal, civilized channels Spain has repeatedly tried to wrestle back Gibraltar. Notice that Spain hasn’t stupidly threatened war over Gibraltar and respected the international norms of self-determination, even though the Gibraltarians have voted in referendum to remain British territory.

The 1982 war was instigated by the Argentine military junta to distract from the country’s ailing economic woes, and ironically led to their downfall. So some good did come out of that stupid war. As we all know, Argentina has been having some problems with its economy in the past few years…looks like history is repeating itself. Nothing like a good war to whip up patriotism and distract people from lack of jobs and destitute families. :unamused:[/quote]

I stand corrected on that point. :notworthy:

Still don’t want to see a war over a few rocks in the ocean.

Wiki: [quote]chicken hawk … is gay slang used in referring to an older gay man who seeks out much younger men or boys for sex (See pederasty).[/quote]

:laughing: :bravo:

Because the military junta in Argentina lost the Falkland War, the junta fell. It was notorious for human rights abuses - torturing and killing about 30,000 people, mostly university students. The people of Argentina then got a democracy. They should be thanking the UK for getting rid of their dictatorship.
In addition - since everyone on the islands is British, and no one is Argentinian, why exactly would the inhabitants of the islands want to join Argentina? They should be allowed to choose for themselves, not have the threat of war over them all the time.

Oh alright, but only because I like your insights int the beast of the DPP. :laughing:

As for Los Malvinos being a just war, I guess in the broadest sense of maintaining national inegrity, but I don’t think so morally. The UK nearly lost that one. Wonder what would’ve happened if they had?

HG

Let’s see: Small island, far away, big bad neighbour, yeah, sure, who cares what those few people living on the island want, if the big neighbour country says it’s his island, well, he should be allowed to take it, right? :bravo:

It’s liberate, not take. Get yer language right. Oh, and yeah . . . . :blush: