Falun Gong and propaganda (part 2)

[cranky_laowai]

Please continue the thread here.

I’m curious to know how something that supposedly isn’t a religion has something to say about who gets into “heaven.”

[Tetsuo]

Lizi, for my part, with this new split, I’m willing to make an effort to start afresh. Where I do disagree, I’ll still state my case, but how about we leave the personal attacks behind?

So, as Cranky Laowai said - how is it that if Falun Gong isn’t a religion, it still concerns itself with matters of the afterlife (specifically heaven and entry into heaven)? And if FLG truely is a religion (or whatever you might call it) of tolerance and benevolence, Master Li himself has said that without salvation from him, interracial children and homosexuals can’t get into heaven?

[Lizi1118]

[quote=“cranky laowai”]
I’m curious to know how something that supposedly isn’t a religion has something to say about who gets into “heaven.”[/quote]

Ths is a good and big question.

I 'll try to explain.

When Jesus came to the earth, he just told people his teachings. No religion form like today. Right?

When Buddha Shikyamuni came to save people, he did not take a form of religion, he gave his teachings and led his disciples to meditate. No templs, no the form of Buddhism, right?

Religions were built by the people after the enlightened beings left the earth many years, people gradually realized the great value of the teachings of Jesus and Shikyamuni, and they gradually built up the form of religions. There are many temples and churches, and many people like monks who have different grade, and bishop or priest, ect. All these people are normal people if they donot really practice themselves and don’t really follow the enlightened beings’ teachings. Therefore the religions were built by people, not by the enlightened beings.

As for Falun Dafa, we don’t use the form of religion. There are no fixed places as temples and churches, and the practitioners do not seperate from ordinary people, we have jobs and families, and we donot worship any joss. We follow the great Law. Also we have no ceremony, no membership, no titles as bishop or priest. We are obviously different from the forms of religion.

We call it a cultivation practice: “cultivation” refers to the improvement of one’s heart and mind through the study of universal principles; “practice” means doing exercises and meditation to energize the body.

[Lizi1118]

[quote=“Tetsuo”] but how about we leave the personal attacks behind?

So, as Cranky Laowai said - how is it that if Falun Gong isn’t a religion, it still concerns itself with matters of the afterlife (specifically heaven and entry into heaven)? And if FLG truely is a religion (or whatever you might call it) of tolerance and benevolence, Master Li himself has said that without salvation from him, interracial children and homosexuals can’t get into heaven?[/quote]

To be a Falun Gong practitioner, I don’t want to deal with an personal attacks, but I must point out the fake or unrighteous things, and I donot think that is personal attacks.

Mayb we have some misunderstanding about the word “religion”, what I focuss is the form, we have not the form of religion. However, we have belief, we believe in the existence of different dimensions, and the higher beings in higher dimensions which people call them Gods.

[Lizi1118]

[quote=“Tetsuo”]
And if FLG truely is a religion (or whatever you might call it) [/quote]

I have explained about the word “religion”, if you insist on using the word “religion”, as I previous wrote that you can, but I want you know what we think about this issue.

[Lizi1118]

@Tetsuo

And if FLG truely is a religion (or whatever you might call it) of tolerance and benevolence, Master Li himself has said that without salvation from him, interracial children and homosexuals can’t get into heaven?

This is not the original words of Master Li, I think if you want to discuss what Master Li has said, we’d better quote Master Li’s original words. Right?

I have discussed the issue of homosexuals, what they are facing is not if they can go to heaven, but ----

Falun Dafa tells people the law of the universe using the form of Qi Gong practice instead of the form of religion. This can greatly have more people benefit from it than the form of religion. The law of the universe determines a living being’s future, if he is a good one, good future is waiting for him, such as he may go to the heavens(actually higher dimensions); if it is a bad one, of course, bad future is waiting for it, such as it maybe go to the hell.(actually lower dimensions that bad beings pay off their bad deeds)

The law determines a being’s future, not a question of whether we are compassionate to other beings. Actually we are compassionate to every one, therefore, we try to tell people to be good, so that they could have a better future.

Then how to tell if a person is good? The nature of the universe----to be true, good, and endure is the criteria.

[Lizi1118]

[quote=“Tetsuo”]
Master Li himself has said that without salvation from him, interracial children and homosexuals can’t get into heaven?[/quote]

~~ Mod Edit~~
Contents removed on original poster’s request. The original poster claims to have given statements based on his own interpretations at the time, which upon reflection are incorrect and possibly bigoted.

[Lizi1118]

I must declare that all I have post in the threads is my understanding by learning Falun Dafa, that is not Falun Dafa, if sb wants to know what Falun Dafa teaches, he must read the original book of Master Li. Here you can download freely:
www.falundafa.org

[Tetsuo]

@Lizi1118

Our Master never said the things you put here, so the way you do easily mislead readers and yourself

Cut the personal attacks Lizi. I have and will continue to do so, keep up your end of the bargain.

The idea you got is from an anti-Falun Gong website, they are deeply influenced by CCP’ propaganda.

No, that site that AC Dropout got that from is not an anti-FLG site:

[quote=“www.religioustolerance.com”]This is a large religious web site which promotes religious freedom, tolerance and diversity as positive cultural values. It contains over 2,630 essays and menus. But it is very different from almost all other religious sites:
bullet We do not promote our own religious beliefs. We can’t because we are a multi-faith group. We try to explain the full range of religious belief in North America, from Asatru to Zoroastrianism, including Christianity, Hinduism, Wicca etc.
bullet We try to describe all viewpoints on controversial religious topics objectively and fairly. We cover everything from abortion access to equal rights and protections for homosexuals and bisexuals, including same-sex marriage, and dozens of other “hot” topics. [/quote]
And how is it that quoting Li Hongzhi’s own words as they came out of his mouth in front of a FLG assembly is “influenced by CCP propaganda”?

@New York Times

interracial children are the spawn of the ‘Dharma Ending Period,’ a Buddhist phrase that refers to an era of moral degeneration. In an interview last year, he said each race has its own paradise, and he later told followers in Australia that, ‘The yellow people, the white people, and the black people have corresponding races in heaven.’ As a result, he said, interracial children have no place in heaven without his intervention.

However, interracial persons are different, they have lost their elements that can be recieved by higher dimensions, and if they die, they cannot go to higher dimensions. this is the fact.

No that is not a “fact”, that is a fact of the teachings of FLG. Please try and keep this in perspective.

the great law can solve the problem of interracial persons

“The problem of interracial persons”? I’m going to hope you mean “the problem facing interracial people” and not that interracial people are a problem that needs to be solved, because that sounds awfully… discriminatory.

[Tetsuo]

[quote=“Lizi1118”][quote=“Tetsuo”]
And if FLG truely is a religion (or whatever you might call it) [/quote]

I have explained about the word “religion”, if you insist on using the word “religion”, as I previous wrote that you can, but I want you know what we think about this issue.[/quote]
Look, that was just my choice of word; whether I call it a religion or not is immaterial. Disagree with my choice of word if you want, it doesn’t make any difference to the content of the teachings.

Also, discuss:

[quote=“Li Hongzhi, at Sydney, Australia”]After races are mixed up, you will find one

[Lizi1118]

@Tetsuo

[quote=“Lizi1118”]Our Master never said the things you put here, so the way you do easily mislead readers and yourself

Cut the personal attacks Lizi. I have and will continue to do so, keep up your end of the bargain.[/quote]

Is it personal attacks? I’d rather think that is a fact.

[Lizi1118]

@Tetsuo

And how is it that quoting Li Hongzhi’s own words as they came out of his mouth in front of a FLG assembly is “influenced by CCP propaganda”?

Is it quoting MasterLi’s words?
I think you know changing the possition of the words would lead to dfferent understanding. You put that two groups together, and said that is Master Li’s words. Right?

This behavior likes what CCP always does, so I quess that is influenced by CCP. This is not a personal attacks, I can explain this as you do not grasp the meaning of the words.

[Tetsuo]

Unless you somehow have proof that I am intentionally misleading people, it’s an attack not a fact. And because I’m not trying to mislead, it’s not a fact. Try and stick with facts you can prove please. Just because you say something is a fact doesn’t make it a fact.

[Lizi1118]

@Tetsuo

@New York Times

interracial children are the spawn of the ‘Dharma Ending Period,’ a Buddhist phrase that refers to an era of moral degeneration. In an interview last year, he said each race has its own paradise, and he later told followers in Australia that, ‘The yellow people, the white people, and the black people have corresponding races in heaven.’ As a result, he said, interracial children have no place in heaven without his intervention.

Some of this is Master Li’s words, some is the reporter’s interpretation.
This kind of interpretation sometimes mislead people.
Therefore, I insist that do not quote or believe these kind of interpretation as the words of Master Li, because sth cannot easily be understood by ordinary persons.

[Lizi1118]

@Tetsuo

Unless you somehow have proof that I am intentionally misleading people, it’s an attack not a fact. And because I’m not trying to mislead, it’s not a fact. Try and stick with facts you can prove please. Just because you say something is a fact doesn’t make it a fact.

Or I can say the changing of the possition of the words may lead you or others misunderstand sth. This way is better,Ithink.

[Lizi1118]

[quote=“Tetsuo”]
Also, discuss:

[quote=“Li Hongzhi, at Sydney, Australia”]After races are mixed up, you will find one

[Lizi1118]

~~ Mod Edit ~~
Contents removed on original poster’s request. The original poster claims to have given statements based on his own interpretations at the time, which upon reflection are incorrect and possibly bigoted.

[Lizi1118]

@Tetsuo

4. Why would or should a person of mixed race be “separated”?

[/quote]

This is a fact, which you may dismiss.

[sandman]

[quote]You can realize that the countries where mixed race dominated are not doveloping well, this can be seen as a proof.

Different races have different heavens, this is a fact,[/quote]

This is some the most filthy bigoted shite I’ve seen outside of a white supremacist pamphlet. And that is a fact.

[Lizi1118]

@Tetsuo

On another point:

@Li Hongzhi

I remember that Jehovah and Jesus all said in the Bible or books as such, “You should not go to the East.” There are other things said, but I only remembered this sentence, “You should not go to the East,” telling his disciples not to pass on the teaching in the East. His disciples did not listen to his words and followed the expeditionary forces to the East. A problem then occurred. The races in the world are not allowed to be mixed up.

Now that first bit is just inaccurate. For example:

@Matthew 8:11

I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven.

I think the words imply the religion would spread widely. Not really means people come from the east( different races) would go to the White’s heaven.