Famous US athlete indicted for dog fighting

Discussion Open Forum
61

Reminds me of the saying:

You can take the negro out of the ghetto, but not the ghetto out of the negro. [edit: for clarity, this quote doesn’t mean that it’s my personal position. Please read the qualification below where I’m pointing at the thug culture, rather than the race as the problem.]

I would qualify this as being urban gangsta culture that’s made acceptance of gangtas things widespread from the bling bling, the low-riding pants, the hard look, the hoes, the cristal, blunt, capping yo ass, along with dog-fighting. That’s why the thugs in the NFL think it’s aight. So this really isn’t a race card issue, it’s a thug/gangsta issue. so it’s more like

You can take the thug out of the hood, but you can’t take the hood out of the thug.

62

[quote=“Jack Burton”]Reminds me of the saying:

You can take the negro out of the ghetto, but not the ghetto out of the negro.

I would qualify this as being urban gangsta culture that’s made acceptance of gangtas things widespread from the bling bling, the low-riding pants, the hard look, the hoes, the cristal, blunt, capping yo ass, along with dog-fighting. That’s why the thugs in the NFL think it’s aight. So this really isn’t a race card issue, it’s a thug/gangsta issue. so it’s more like

You can take the thug out of the hood, but you can’t take the hood out of the thug.[/quote]

Is this thread justification for you to spout a whole buch of racist shit?

63

Well I think it was all the fried chicken and watermelon. They like that you know.

HG

64

[quote=“Huang Guang Chen”]Well I think it was all the fried chicken and watermelon. They like that you know.

HG[/quote]

Is that the best you can come up with? :unamused:

65

[quote=“Namahottie”][quote=“Jack Burton”]Reminds me of the saying:

You can take the negro out of the ghetto, but not the ghetto out of the negro.

I would qualify this as being urban gangsta culture that’s made acceptance of gangtas things widespread from the bling bling, the low-riding pants, the hard look, the hoes, the cristal, blunt, capping yo ass, along with dog-fighting. That’s why the thugs in the NFL think it’s aight. So this really isn’t a race card issue, it’s a thug/gangsta issue. so it’s more like

You can take the thug out of the hood, but you can’t take the hood out of the thug.[/quote]

Is this thread justification for you to spout a whole buch of racist shit?[/quote]

If there’s misunderstanding that I am somehow severely racist, then I apologize for my lack of clear writing. I hoped, as in the second paragraph, you could see that the real problem, as I see it, is the gangsta/thug/prison culture that has gained wide acceptance. I see that as the source of violence, of black of black violence, and now black on dog violence. Unless your position is that gangsta culture is great and positive, there is no controversy here.

66

[quote=“Jack Burton”][quote=“Namahottie”][quote=“Jack Burton”]Reminds me of the saying:

You can take the negro out of the ghetto, but not the ghetto out of the negro.

I would qualify this as being urban gangsta culture that’s made acceptance of gangtas things widespread from the bling bling, the low-riding pants, the hard look, the hoes, the cristal, blunt, capping yo ass, along with dog-fighting. That’s why the thugs in the NFL think it’s aight. So this really isn’t a race card issue, it’s a thug/gangsta issue. so it’s more like

You can take the thug out of the hood, but you can’t take the hood out of the thug.[/quote]

Is this thread justification for you to spout a whole buch of racist shit?[/quote]

If there’s misunderstanding that I am somehow severely racist, then I apologize for my lack of clear writing. I hoped, as in the second paragraph, you could see that the real problem, as I see it, is the gangsta/thug/prison culture that has gained wide acceptance. I see that as the source of violence, of black of black violence, and now black on dog violence. Unless your position is that gangsta culture is great and positive, there is no controversy here.[/quote]

black on dog violence? :unamused: Give me a break. There’s nothing positive about any popular culture that glorifies violence. Point is, this whole thread is a thinly veiled attack on black men. How does his background justify anything? Right or wrong?

67

[quote=“Namahottie”][quote=“Jack Burton”][quote=“Namahottie”][quote=“Jack Burton”]Reminds me of the saying:

You can take the negro out of the ghetto, but not the ghetto out of the negro.

I would qualify this as being urban gangsta culture that’s made acceptance of gangtas things widespread from the bling bling, the low-riding pants, the hard look, the hoes, the cristal, blunt, capping yo ass, along with dog-fighting. That’s why the thugs in the NFL think it’s aight. So this really isn’t a race card issue, it’s a thug/gangsta issue. so it’s more like

You can take the thug out of the hood, but you can’t take the hood out of the thug.[/quote]

Is this thread justification for you to spout a whole buch of racist shit?[/quote]

If there’s misunderstanding that I am somehow severely racist, then I apologize for my lack of clear writing. I hoped, as in the second paragraph, you could see that the real problem, as I see it, is the gangsta/thug/prison culture that has gained wide acceptance. I see that as the source of violence, of black of black violence, and now black on dog violence. Unless your position is that gangsta culture is great and positive, there is no controversy here.[/quote]

black on dog violence? :unamused: Give me a break. There’s nothing positive about any popular culture that glorifies violence. Point is, this whole thread is a thinly veiled attack on black men. How is his background justify anything? Right or wrong?[/quote]

I disagree. As I’ve clarified, this is an indictment of those who glorify the thug culture. Nowadays, black men and white men and mexicans, etc. all glorify thug culture, so I condemn any man. Hey, if Tom Brady spoke up and defended Vick, I’d be all over his face too. Wait a second, Al Sharpton issued a statement jointly with PETA, so he must be attacking black men. Now I ask you, why is it only black men in NFL and NBA who have defended him? Not our fault those are the facts. So puh-lease don’t bring the race card, cuz sometimes, it’s just an excuse. I say, go after anyone of any race that dogfights. no problem.

68

So, I found this poem on the web, and like I said, guilt lies in the hands of a judge and jury, and I didn’t point a finger at Kobe or Magic… why? cuz they didn’t come out and defend dogfighting, so how is that racism? So Nama, you’re starting to irritate me.

Hi Ya’ll…My name is Michael Vick…
And i really like dogs…Unless they get sick…
Then i gots ta put em…in the dirt…
Where is my Ron Mexico shirt?..
Doesn’t everyone buy property worth 700 grand…
And let their cousins have the lay of the land…
I had no idea this was going on…
So i’m keeping it real with this rap song…
We called our thang…Kennels of bad news…
We do to dogs what hitler did to jews…
But i swear i knew nothing of the sort…
I told Arthur Blank that in a full report…
To my fans in Atlanta…I’m not much of a singer…
But i can’t wait for the new season…To give ya the finger…
I’m Michael Vick…a true class act…
I kill dogs for pleasure…And thats a fact…

69

That’s ridiculous. Is the thread criticizing Barry Bonds for being a lying, cheating steroid user and an arrogant asshole a thinly veiled attack on black men? If there was a thread discussing how Mike Tyson is a screwed up loser, would that be a thinly veiled attack on black men? If there was a thread criticizing Clarence Thomas for being a hypocritical sellout, would that be a thinly veiled attack on black men? Is it possible to criticize a black man without being accused of racism?

I’m sure if Vick was white people would be just as pissed off about what he did. His race is irrelevant.

Why are you so fixated on his background? :wink:

70

[quote=“Jack Burton”][quote=“Namahottie”][quote=“Jack Burton”][quote=“Namahottie”][quote=“Jack Burton”]Reminds me of the saying:

You can take the negro out of the ghetto, but not the ghetto out of the negro.

I would qualify this as being urban gangsta culture that’s made acceptance of gangtas things widespread from the bling bling, the low-riding pants, the hard look, the hoes, the cristal, blunt, capping yo ass, along with dog-fighting. That’s why the thugs in the NFL think it’s aight. So this really isn’t a race card issue, it’s a thug/gangsta issue. so it’s more like

You can take the thug out of the hood, but you can’t take the hood out of the thug.[/quote]

Is this thread justification for you to spout a whole buch of racist shit?[/quote]

If there’s misunderstanding that I am somehow severely racist, then I apologize for my lack of clear writing. I hoped, as in the second paragraph, you could see that the real problem, as I see it, is the gangsta/thug/prison culture that has gained wide acceptance. I see that as the source of violence, of black of black violence, and now black on dog violence. Unless your position is that gangsta culture is great and positive, there is no controversy here.[/quote]

black on dog violence? :unamused: Give me a break. There’s nothing positive about any popular culture that glorifies violence. Point is, this whole thread is a thinly veiled attack on black men. How is his background justify anything? Right or wrong?[/quote]

I disagree. As I’ve clarified, this is an indictment of those who glorify the thug culture. Nowadays, black men and white men and Mexicans, etc. all glorify thug culture, so I condemn any man. Hey, if Tom Brady spoke up and defended Vick, I’d be all over his face too. Wait a second, Al Sharpton issued a statement jointly with PETA, so he must be attacking black men. Now I ask you, why is it only black men in NFL and NBA who have defended him? Not our fault those are the facts. So puh-lease don’t bring the race card, cuz sometimes, it’s just an excuse. I say, go after anyone of any race that dogfights. no problem.[/quote]

But I’m not the one who introduced the element of race or implied it. I’m questioning why does his background justify his behavior? What does gansta/thug culture have to do with this (his behavior)anyway?

Last year, when a Taiwanese man was discovered to be torturing cats, I argued for compassion for him. No one could see how there was a need since he was college educated. It was my opinion that it didn’t matter that he was college educated, but the fact that he was someone who was acting out his pain and that having a degree doesn’t make a difference when it comes to dealing with emotional reasoning and respect for life.

What are you going to say if Vick uses these very same arguments for his defense, as a means to sway the jury?

71

If I agree with Hank Aaron in boycotting Bonds’ homerun record, am I racist? :unamused:

Should I give equal contempt time in posting about the bad boys of Nascar? :unamused:

Fact is, I was only attacking the individuals who came out and defended Vick: Portis, Iverson, Samuels. Whose fault is it that they are all black? Where’s the white men of the NFL to defend Vick?I’d criticize them too. :unamused:

72

That’s ridiculous. Is the thread criticizing Barry Bonds for being a lying, cheating steroid user and an arrogant asshole a thinly veiled attack on black men? If there was a thread discussing how Mike Tyson is a screwed up loser, would that be a thinly veiled attack on black men? If there was a thread criticizing Clarence Thomas for being a hypocritical sellout, would that be a thinly veiled attack on black men? Is it possible to criticize a black man without being accused of racism?[/quote]Yes. It has been done plenty of times, but there have been posts that do cross that line.

[quote]
I’m sure if he was white people would be just as pissed off about what he did. His race is irrelevant.

Why are you so fixated on his background? :wink:[/quote]

I’m not the one who introduced his background as a reason for him being involved in the doggone stuff to begin with :wink:

73

[quote=“Jack Burton”]If I agree with Hank Aaron in boycotting Bonds’ homerun record, am I racist? :unamused:

Should I give equal contempt time in posting about the bad boys of Nascar? :unamused:

Fact is, I was only attacking the individuals who came out and defended Vick: Portis, Iverson, Samuels. Whose fault is it that they are all black? Where’s the white men of the NFL to defend Vick?I’d criticize them too. :unamused:[/quote]

It’s not about who defended who, but what you said, which was racist in it’s context.

74

I think we need to differentiate his background as different from race.

I’m saying it’s this gangsta/hiphop culture (and if you’re saying that athletes like Iverson and Vick aren’t into that, then I have to disagree).

But if you’re saying background as in race, then we’re talking about 2 different things.

75

In fact, he probably will. People do it all the time. But the arguments about how he comes from a screwed up background so you should be lenient with him won’t be made to the jury, they’ll be made to the judge. The jury decides guilt or innocence and such arguments are usually totally irrelevant at that stage. The judge then decides an appropriate sentence and such arguments are made all the time in the sentencing stage. The prosecution and defense both call witnesses to support, respectively, the strongest and weakest possible punishment. Mom will come in and cry about how dad was never home and when he was he was always drunk and beat the family. His former pastor will come in and say he was an angel. Others will testify about how he tortured cats as a child and was diddled by his uncle. That’s how it always works. Such facts are considered relevant in the sentencing phase. I’m not saying that’s good or bad, just saying that’s the reality.

The judge’s discretion in sentencing is almost always seriously restricted by firm mandatory sentencing guidelines. But those arguments will be made to influence where the judge sentences him within those guidelines.

76

Is his prison name gonna be “Vick the bitch?”

77

I have moved this thread in to Open as the discussion seems to be more about inherent behaviour than it is about the rights and wrongs of dog fighting. If you’d like to talk about dog fighting, then I’ll be happy to accommodate you in pets and other animals. Perhaps a skilled ‘open’ mod might split this thread into two topics…

Any questions, please send me a PM.

78

Nah, “Kicked the bitch.”

HG

79

Nah, “Kicked the bitch.”

HG[/quote]

Nah, Rover. As in bend over Rover.

80

Aw, come on. Let’s give him a chance to have a trial before we start deciding what factors led up to his depravity.

Everyone was all on about how Kobe had committed rape. Then it was pretty well shown that it was a false accusation. Rich and famous people are often the targets of individuals and even career-minded law enforcement agents.