Father awarded custody of child, goes to Germany

Life Dating & Relationships
1

“German Engineer steal’s Taiwan girls baby.” This isn’t a newspaper headline. This is what I deal with everyday listening to my new female friend cry. Her Story:

She met and married an Engineer at the tender age of 21, he was 22. She got pregnant (after the marriage, not before as most people guess) and had a beautiful son. Her husband didn’t seem interested in the child. When it was only 2 months old he smacked it across the face for crying…that was her first sign that something might be wrong. The marriage went bad as he would lie to, hit, and blame her for the things he didn’t like about his life. He told her at one point that he didn’t think the child was his :loco: . I could mention other negative instances like this, but it would seem petty.

By the time their son was 2 years old she realized she would have to divorce him. So, she did. He got custody being the man…and being in Taiwan. He decided to take his son back to Germany…WITHOUT telling her. This was three months ago. He doesn’t actually want the son…so he gave him to his parents to raise. What 25 year old male would want to be a single parent? Not many that I know of. So as opposed to giving him to the mother who loves him dearly he gives him to his grandparents who have never seen him before.

And this is the part that makes me want to vomit. When she contacted her ex-husband in Germany she suppressed her anger at him leaving without telling her. And asked him to send her pictures and hopefully videos of her son from month to month, and to allow her to phone him…he agreed to this. He let her talk to him on the phone once…and not since then. He doesn’t usually answer her calls and when he does he refuses to talk about their son…instead he flirts with her and tries to talk about other things. She cries herself to sleep looking at her son’s pictures every night. When my mother died I cried every single day for about a year. I think this is worse.

To be fair…I’m only hearing one side of the story. BUT, I did see an email she wrote to him begging him to send her a picture at least, so she can know her son is healthy and alright. The email also told of her sorrow and pain. AND I did see his reply in which he says that he won’t send her any pictures or allow her to talk to him…, but she can feel free to continue to write to the ex-husband and he will talk with her. :fume: In other words the sick fuck won’t allow her to talk to her own child…but he hopes she will talk with him.

It seems like he is using her baby…in some sick game. To hold power over her in revenge for her divorcing him.

The guy is only 25 years old…and I guess there are some maturity issues here. Hopefully in the future he will realize what it is he’s doing. Causing a girl this much pain and suffering…just by not sending the odd picture…is disgusting. Truly sick.

He left with her child only about 3 months ago. He lived in Taiwan for years. There must be someone on this site who is still friends with him, I’m guessing. He lived in Douliu, in Yunlin county for the last few years. If someone he respects could contact him and…oh I don’t know. I just feel helpless watching someone I care about suffer so much…I thought I’d try. :cry:

If any Germans are reading this…do you know of any organization that might be able to help in Germany? Or maybe contacting the local news in his hometown might put some pressure on him to act a bit more humane?

:help:

This girl has hundreds of pictures of her son…you can really see that she loved him, a lot. She said her husband almost never took pictures of their son…unless she was in the picture with him. I think that says a lot.

P.S. You could argue the title of this post is incorrect…since it was “their” baby and not “her” baby. But considering the details of the situation…I don’t think it is incorrect.

2

She might consider pursuing the matter in the German courts. If the father were a Brit who had taken his child back to the UK and acted as this guy is alleged to have done, she’d have a pretty good chance of winning custody or at least regular access, and she’d probably qualify for legal aid so she wouldn’t have to foot the bill for lawyers to represent her.

3

Man O Man Mordeth -
This portends to be a whole new can of enchiladas here on Forumosa. I look for this thread to grow.
I wish you both the best.

4

For starters . . .

The most important thing to be doing at the moment is for her to be keeping a journal of every contact, attempt at contact, and such. If the parties have been communicating by e-mail then she should be keeping copies of all e-mails sent and received. These should be printed off and also recorded in the journal. All phone calls, letters, packages, and such should also be tracked. If this matter ever proceeds to court, either in Taiwan or Germany, then she will have a record that will prove invaluable to her lawyer and the court. It will eliminate a lot of the stress for her of trying to go back and piece things together at a later date. Maintaining the journal can also help give her the sense of doing something productive.

The second thing to do is get a copy of the divorce decree/order along with any agreement or order on custody/child access. Did he have the right to take the child back to Germany? And does he have the right to deny her access? What access/visitation rights does she have under the divorce?

The third thing to do is to go and speak to a local lawyer and have them give you the answers to the above questions and explain her rights in this situation under local law. You have to figure this out before you do too much as it will be one of the first questions anyone asks.

Taiwan is not a party to the Hague Convention on the Civil Aspects of International Child Abduction; Germany is but where Taiwan is not then it is not going to be much good.

5

Thank you damafen, that’s some good starting info. I’d guess any method that can be used towards the goal of seeing her son is something that she can focus on thus benefiting her mental health. I’m guessing.

6

Custody of children is not automatically given to the father. I have joint custody of my son with my ex.

So therefore the title of this post is inflammatory and wrong. How did the father steal his own child?

If the father has sole custody under local law here then he has the legal right to take the child wherever he wants without permission of the mother.

I take it the child has dual nationality. The mother realy needs to take whatever documents relating to the divorce and custody to a lawyer. However you feel about the father raising the child is really none of our business. Many Taiwanese also let their parents help in raising the child.

My good german friends sends his children to spend a few months a year in Germany with his parents.

Let’s not assume that he abducted the child. That can only occur where custody was given to one parent and the other parent took the child. If one parent who has custody takes the child there can be no abduction.

If the mother is not a resident of Geman I don’t know how she is going to be entitled to legal aid in Germany.

From the info you have posted the father has not commited any crime. And he has the legal right to raise his child how he see fit. If he has custody and the mother took the child from Germany back to Tawan then she could be accused of kidnapping the child.

7

I raised my son here as a single parent. What’s age got to do with it?

Did you see the father allegedly hit the child or abuse the child?

8

I honestly wondered who would be low enough to come to his defense first. Ok, let’s say that he did get sole custody…for sake of argument. You think it’s ok for him to deny the mother…that raised the child from birth…any pictures or phone calls with her own son? Even if by some small chance he is legal in what he’s doing. It’s still so incomprehensibly immoral as to make most normal people feel nauseated by the evilness of it. All she asks for is the odd picture…and to be allowed to phone her only child that she not he raised. He isn’t allowing her to do this, so that he can play some kind of sick power trip game with her. Unless you can think of some other reason he would invite her to talk with him, but deny her access to her child?

I suppose if your wife got custody of your child and left you to live somewhere else…and cut you off from your child completely…you’d be ok with that…since she has custody? Give me a break. :loco:

9

Mordeth, it’s obvious you feel strongly about both the girl and her situation. But he’s got a valid point. The Taiwan courts do not always award sole custody…In fact there usually has to be a set of extenuating circumstances…

I lived with my Grandparents for years so my parents could both work and save money for their first home. My Grandfather in particular was a fantastic role model, and went far out of his way with a sense of wisdom that only age and parenting experience can provide.

I’d suggest you getting to know this girl better before you start crusading on her behalf…It’s possible (Although I really want to be wrong) that he knows something you have yet to discover about her.

Slow down, find out where the stones under the moss really lie, and if you feel as strongly in six months as you do now about supporting her case, then pursue it more aggressively.

You are going to need a few devil’s advocates on this thread…Unless of course you wanted just a slap on the back and a few others to share you rightous indignation…

Chill man, the Devil’s advocate on this thread may end up being your best friend…

Also, you owe someone an apology…Satellite TV has stuck it out, raised his son in what sounds like terrific fashion, and has given you an honest opinion based on his own experience.

Your reply was below the belt IMHO…

10

I’m not arguing about it. You said he has custody… period.

[quote=“Mordeth”]“German Engineer steal’s Taiwan girls baby.”

Your title thread has already let us know what you have determined already as judge, jury and, executioner. I see all men are guilty as charged and guilty until proven innocent. :blush: :blush: :blush:

And how long have you known the lady and question? This is what I deal with everyday listening to my new female friend cry.

I can see you clearly have taken both parents view into account of their marriage and divorce. Of course such a gift for marriage counselling may well have saved their marriage if you had known them long enough.

Who knows what the future may hold. It took a long time before my ex would even talk to me. She just wanted to live in Australia. The couple may get over their differences enough in the future when things have clamed down a little bit.

Times heals old wounds… hey? I’m sure if I was the father and some stranger got involved I wouldnt be none too happy about it.

And yes, me ex took my son to Australia for 5 years before deciding that she was tired of the single mother role for awhile and brought him back to me. Sometimes she would not let my son chat on MSN because she was tired, busy, or didn’t feel like it. People can have a weird time handling divorce and separation from loved ones. I guess I should know.

She took him to Australia but nowhere else. She doesn’t have sole custody either. I have hundreds of pictures of my son as well… care to see any? :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: So when I wanted to visit him I had to fly down to Australia, which I did.

11

I’m honestly dumbfounded by your attitudes. First of all MJB, I never said he had sole custody. Regardless, we are talking about a mother…who has lost her only child and for no reason other than her ex-husbands perverted pleasure…is not allowed to see or speak to him.

I just typed a few more paragraphs then decided to delete them…the first paragraph is enough. She cries herself to sleep every night…she misses her son. He could easily send her a pic…or allow her to talk to him. I really couldn’t give a flying fuck about the legalities of the issue…and I’m not going to debate them…especially not with people who are defending a sadistic piece of shit. He never even raised the child…he’s not raising him now. And he’s being cruel to the mother of the child…and in effect being cruel to the child by denying him his mother…and you defend him. :noway:

12

The father of the child seems immature and spiteful to me. This is what’s called a lose/lose situation. The father doesn’t really want the child but wants to spite the mother, the grandparents get the job of raising a child, the mother’s life is upset and the child is suffering most of all.

13

Quote Mordeth - And he’s being cruel to the mother of the child…and in effect being cruel to the child by denying him his mother…and you defend him.

Nobody is defending anybody that I can see. They are just trying to remind you that you don’t know all the facts here just yet. Indeed, you don’t even know if he has sole custody, and if he does, why it was awarded.

14

Well the legalities of the matter are very pertinant. Nobody is defending the guy, just laying out their thoughts and opinions from what you have said. You said the father has custody.

No-one is justifying his actions. Now the guy, who you don’t know, is a sadistic piece of shit, a rather personal attack on someone you’ve never met.

Perhaps you could ask the mother how the father came to have custody. Did she voluntarily give him custody not understanding the ramifications of this, or was custody awarded by a court? These are very relevant legal issues. Whatever moral opinions you personally hold are not relevant, nor helpful.

Do you think a father has less rights to the child than the mother?

There are legal processes for dealing with these situations and that is where he mother should begin. Perhaps you could introduce her to one of the foreign lawyers here who may have legal aquintances who deal with these types of matters.

Your emotional outbursts with what appears to be a serious lack of details is disturbing. If the father does have sole custody, then it’s not up to you to decide if he lets the mothre have access rights to the child. This is for the family courts to decide.

15

MJB did not mention sole custody, I asked if the father has sole custody…

Mordeth you said… He got custody being the man…and being in Taiwan

I replied… Custody of children is not automatically given to the father

So the issue is custody and how much of it each parent has. A legal issue.

Being emotional about a situtation you seem not to be fully informed of is not helping.

16

I don’t think anyone is defending his behavior…Just trying to find out more information. Your mind is made up it seems, which sort of negates any usefullness this thread could provide.

I agree with you that seperation from the biological mother is a bad idea unless there is an extreme reason to do so…Is there? Do you know all the facts?

There are fathers here that can provide a wealth of sound advice and ideas…If you’d only let them.

Again, find out more. But before you do that, walk outside, take a deep breath and realize that her situation wasn’t created overnight, and realize again that getting to the root of the problem will take time and patience.

A final question: If for some reason she was able to regain custody of the child, is all this nobility include you in a father role?

Slow down man, just let the people that want to help give their opinions…This thread is pointless without them. :slight_smile:

17

Mordeth, you may want to rethink the idea of posting information that is both highly personal and highly emotional in a public forum. It leaves you open to comments that, while usually well-intentioned, may not be what you are looking for. The few times I have posted something personal here, I have gotten pretty steamed by some of the responses.

Better to seek the advice of a few trusted friends in a face-to-face setting, where they can better gauge whether you are looking for sympathy, or for practical advice (the latter being the kind best suited for online discussion).

Best of luck to you and the woman you wish to help.

Tomas

18

Mordeth,

Make another baby with this girl. :laughing:

But honestly getting involved with a divorcee that has her child in another country. Your just asking for trouble getting emotionally involved.

Remember she has more experience than you when it comes to managing relationships.

Just from your post it seems like she too much for you to handle already.

19

It would be strange for the court to award sole custody to the father, especially for a child so young, isn’t it?

In order to get a divorce, either both parties have to be willing, or one party requests a divorce from the court. The latter requires a good reason like physical/mental abuse, adultery, abandonment, etc.

The sexist laws regarding child custody were purged in 1996. Now child custody is awarded in the best interest of the child. I personally think it would be more likely for HER to receive the favorable bias, as the child is very young, the father is not a Taiwan national, and he was violent towards her and her child. I resent the implication that Taiwanese courts are unjust and award custody based solely upon the sex of the parent. As my mother has complete custody of my 14 year old sister, you will see this is not true.

Below is how child custody is determined now.

  1. The age, gender, number, and health of the child
    (There is a higher chance of custody being awarded to the mother when the child is below three, and higher chance of custody being awarded to the father when the child is school-aged.)

一、子女之年齡、性別、人數及健康情形。
(孩子三歲以下判給媽媽機會較高，學齡時男孩判給爸爸機會較高)

  1. The child’s wishes and needs regarding character development.
    二、子女之意願及人格發展之需要。

  2. The age, employment, character, health, financial ability, and living condition of the parents.
    三、父母之年齡、職業、品性、健康情形、經濟能力及生活狀況。

  3. The desire the parent has to protect and rear the child.
    (give many instances of how you took care of the child, like taking him to classes, how you took care of him when he was sick, or your plans for his education.)
    四、父母保護教養子女之意願及態度。
    (多舉一些你曾經照顧孩子的狀況，例如陪他去上才藝班，他生病時如何照顧他或對他的教育有何規劃等等

20

From my experience in Taiwanese divorce it is usually sons go with the father and daughters go with the mother, if parties cannot agree to how to split custody.

Only in cases where the mother’s family can demonstrate it has that much more resources than the father’s side have I seen the mother get full custody.

If both sides are equal there is still a bias to award to children to the father side, unlike USA where the bias is towards the mother side.