Father awarded custody of child, goes to Germany

Life Dating & Relationships
21

Firstly I would say it’s none of our business about Mordeth’s friendship with this woman. Obviously one realtionship for her was unmanagable for whatever reasons.

To say that the father is abusing his child is heresay. Also why should not a father raise his child in the childs country of nationality? The child is also a German citizen.

AS long as we don’t know who the woman actuualy is then I don’t see an issue with posting the details here, as long as she is informed of it and agrees to it.

Personally I think the best advice to be given to this woman would be to contact lawyers who live in Germany to help resolve this issue.

I’m sure some in the legal fraternity here may have some contacts over there. The child is in Germany so it’s now a matter for the courts over there. Taiwanese courts don’t have jurisdiction over there and any rulings here would have to be followed up by rulings within the German legal system.

22

Of course you’ve met the man in question. He obviously didn’t want his son so much he took him back to Germany to be raised with the help of his own family.

So you think the mother here would not have her parents help inraising her son? Double standards.

Legally speaking, if the father has been given or awarded sole custody then the mother will have problems. If it’s joint custody then perhaps access for visitation he be obtained. She may have to travel to Germany to visit her son. I guess she would be acompanied so that she didnt break the law and try to bring her son back to Taiwan.

Just try to rememebr the case about the Brazilian child held by his relatives in Taiwan even when the courts here had awarded custody to the granparents in Brazil as both parents had passed away. Or the cuban child in the US who was held by relatives against court orders to return the child to the father.

23

Well, yes, however I would like to know if the German courts would recognize the original divorce ruling, under whose terms the father got the custody. If I read this correctly, the issue was settled in a Taiwan court, when both parties were residing here.

Also, I would believe that she would have a case which would be hard to win - even in Germany. After all, the father could argue that if the mother got custody, hisright to see the child would be in jeopardy, as the child would end up on the first plane to Taiwan. I know of one Italian woman, who lost a case on that point. (Both the parents were more mature, lived in Denmark, had stable incomes etc, but the father argues that the child would end up in Italy, and that tipped the balance in the fathers favor).

24

Actually this issue of custody has not been explained by Mordeth. It’s an issue which needs to be clear. If the ROC courts have issued sole custody to the father then there must be very strong reasons as to why.

Mr He, you and I have experienced these things whereas Mordeth perhaps has not. Our experiences with our our children were different. Firstly because we are both living in Taiwan, as is your childrens mother.

I agreed for my son to be taken to Australia, as he’s an Australian citizen. But he’s back here living in Taiwan now. He’s lives with either myself or with his mother during school term. Fortunately I no longer have any running battles with the ex, and as a result life is much more stress free.

25

Mordeth, I think it’s very admirable that you seem like you truly want to help this woman and that you care about her sufferings. It’s great thing when we are able to empathize with people who are dear to us. There is nothing wrong with that.

At the same time, what’s really helpful for this woman? Folks on this forum asked some very good questions. Questions that very likely this woman is going to be asked again, again, again, again, and again if she were to get her child back by going through possibly two legal systems. If you truly want to advocate for her and her child, then finding out answers to the questions asked would help you to win her more support, which she probably sorely needs given the description of her emotional state. You empathizing with her is great comfort to her probably: we all need someone on our side when we are so down in life. At the same time, a powerful advocate is one that aligns with the victim, understands what the victim is going through, AND helps the victim to get more support by doing what the victim is not able to do at the moment (i.e.: interact with the world in a calm, rational manner, answer questions, jump through hoops), even when the victim’s rage is absolutely justified and you feel it, too. (Let the fact that you feel her emotions help you, and not block you.) So, it’s really important that you keep your cool even when shit start flying all over the place. Telling people off because they don’t feel what you feel is likely to get them to be defensive and not hear what you have to say; therefore, that’s one less friend for your lady friend.

It’s a horrible thing to have your child yanked away from you. Your lady friend deserves empathy and help, and it’s really important that you help her in the most optimal manner. The fact that you feel deeply for her is great comfort for her already probably; now you need to get some facts clear if you truly want to help her get things moving in terms of getting her child back.

Most important of all, remember you get to take care of yourself, too, in the face of something going through such an ordeal.

26

My experiences regarding the children weren’t as tough, as we early on agreed to joint custody.

Back to the issue at hand, Moredeath, I hope that you can put up the actual details of the whole case - and answer the questions, other poster have asked.

27

And how may times have you been divorced in Taiwan AC? What actual experiences apart from heresay do you have?

The courts do not split up children along gender lines, girls to the mother boys to the father because the two parties don’t agree on who has custody. Firstly what if there is only one child?

28

Well, wasn’t there a story in the bible about King Salomon, where he was about to have a child parted out so each part got 1/2???

Honestly, although it would be easier for a father to gain sole custody here than it would be in Denmark, Australia, or Germany, then the default olution here is still that the child goes to the mother - or joint custody.

Moredeath mentioned that the father ahd custody, he did not say if ti was sole custody, however if that’s the case, then the title of the thread ought to be changed.

But as Satellite TV said, then it’s only 3 months since the child left Taiwan, emotions are still running high, and all wounds are still fresher than an Aimai chicken.

Things will look better in a year.

Speaking from a personal viewpoint, then I have been going thru a very messy breakup. It was very bad, and well, I have had guards in my house, irate ex-inlaws breaking into the house at 3AM, etc etc etc.

However, time has healed the worst wounds, and we are able to sit doen and speak as adults today.

Also, if in the worst time, say that my ex wife got a new bf and he got involved, trying to interfere with this, then I would most likely stop him from further involvement by the means of a good quality wooden baseball bat. After all, the issue of the children is between the parents; noboly else should play more than an advisory role, if any.

29

I would disagree since he did put the topic on a public website for input. But my suggestion is just to let the parents of the child work out the issue.

As for the other aspect of the issue. The girl has been through marriage, child birth, divorce, etc.

It’s like a thirty year old seducing sixteen year old girl and convincing her to do things because its cool. You know the adage of wrapping people around a little finger…right…

30

Some more info.

Under terms of the custody hearing she can visit anytime as long as the child is not in school…etc. I’m not sure if her being allowed to visit pertains to whether or whether not he has sole custody.

He got custody because at the time she wasn’t working (she was raising the child) and he makes a comfortable living (he had a BMW when he was here, bike…but still).

So by law if she flew to Germany she supposedly should be able to see her child. But that’s not very realistic. Even if she did fly there…who’s to say they just won’t answer the door…etc.

Since she is allowed to see her child. You’d think the guy could send her the odd photo. There is no excuse for his cruelty in not allowing her a photo or a phone call. And I’d like to see someone try to create one.

31

Mordeth, have you read the actual court paper regarding custody? (Assuming you can read in Chinese.) That would be a good starting point for sorting through facts and options. Tell her to bring it for you to look at when she visits you next time, assuming she is asking you for support and guidance.

Condemning the biological father takes energy. Energy that can be used to help this woman get her child back. But of course, we gotta do what we gotta do. I prefer a solution-focused approach, but then again sometimes I am caught in a problem-saturated mindset, too. Assuming tha father is indeed a twisted individual who gets off from power-tripping his ex and child, then all the more urgency to start taking actions in sorting things out and changing the current situation.

Take care.

32

You mean by Taiwanese law I take it. In which case I doubt this extends to Germany, so she does actually not have any legal right to see the child there. Would the husband be in Taiwan then the law applies (and if he really would not answer the door she could probably sue him).

His behaviour is to be condemned and morally wrong, but the legal issues prevail and from that point of view it looks pretty bad for the mother.

33

OK, so now it appears that a Taiwan court has awarded custody to the father with visitation or access rights to the mother. The main issue first is custody, if he has been awarded sole custody then the father can remove the child from Taiwan without the mothers persmission. The father could also go to a German court to have this custody decision upheld there.

It’s unlikey a German court would give sole custody based on income alone. However the mother may not be able afford trips to Germany to try and visit her son. First she would need a German court to order access and visitation rights in Germany.

Obviously the divorce has left a lot of animosity between the parents this is still causing many problems. Yes, we would all argue that the father is being hurtful by not allowing the childs mother to speak or visit her son.

At this juncture then the only recourse is to persue the matter in the German family courts. A word of advice, it’s unlikey that the mother would be awarded sole custody. So that means the child would still be living and growing up in Germany.

34

Mordeth, what’s happening now with the girlf?

35

Mordeth, have you talked to a lawyer familiar with Geman family law? If not, do so, and don’t waste any more time. Under German law, custody and the right to decide where a kid should live (Aufenthaltsbestimmungsrecht) are two different things. Sole custody does not automatically give a parent the right to move somewhere else with the kid. In fact, doing so would be a crime.

However, the kid is now in Germany, and if it got there legally I imagine this is not good for the mother’s chances to bring her child back to Taiwan. However, I’m not a lawyer, so go ask one!

36

Yes, but custody was awarded in Taiwan, and the laws are different here. So first the courts will look at why custody was given to the father here.

I believe that we’re not getting the full facts of the matter. But actually we don’t need them. Better for the mother to see a lawyer with the full facts.

37

Talked with someone knowledgeable…even if he had sole custody. He wasn’t allowed to leave the country without telling the mother. And if he was leaving the country that would be grounds enough to appeal the custody. So, he did in fact steal the child, in the sense that he “took” something that he wasn’t allowed to “take”.

So, she probably has some options in getting her son back.

But considering the father comes from a wealthy family…and she hasn’t begun her career yet…she might wanna think about what’s best for the child.
BUT, it would be nice if the piece of shit would send her a fucking picture…or allow her to talk to him on the phone…to keep her from crying so much.

38

[quote=“Mordeth”]Talked with someone knowledgeable…even if he had sole custody. He wasn’t allowed to leave the country without telling the mother. And if he was leaving the country that would be grounds enough to appeal the custody. So, he did in fact steal the child, in the sense that he “took” something that he wasn’t allowed to “take”.

So, she probably has some options in getting her son back.

But considering the father comes from a wealthy family…and she hasn’t begun her career yet…she might wanna think about what’s best for the child.
BUT, it would be nice if the piece of shit would send her a f***ing picture…or allow her to talk to him on the phone…to keep her from crying so much.[/quote]

Do you mean telling her or getting her permission? Two different things, if he needs her permission it’s because he doesnt have sole custody. But that point is pretty moot now.

39

[quote=“Satellite TV”]

Do you mean telling her or getting her permission? Two different things, if he needs her permission it’s because he doesnt have sole custody. But that point is pretty moot now.[/quote]

Even if he had sole custody…he needed to tell her long enough in advance before leaving the country to give her time enough to contest custody if she so chose to do so.

I just noticed someone changed the title of this thread. I take offense to that. He wasn’t allowed to leave the country without at least telling her…so he illegally left the country with the child. Why isn’t that stealing?

40

Did he? Was that in the court ruling?