If you can, step away from the moral aspects of this a second, which i think everyone would agree are unjust. Look at the legalities.
Several people have questioned as to whether he had sole custody, and your last post does not clear this up, although it indicates that he may well have done.
If so then he has the legal right to remove him from the country and take the boy to Germany. Does not matter about the moral aspect, it was legal.
As Germany runs a household registration system, then assuming his ARC - which i have had to assume was based on marriage - then he would have had to register the marriage in Germany to get the necessary paperwork completed for said ARC, that being the case, then he should also have had to register the divorce, which would allow the German courts to look at things. It would be better to ask - if one exists in Taiwan - aGerman national lawyer who currently happens to be here, why not pm someone like Tigerman or Mother Theresa to see if they know of any, both are in the legal profession. They at least would be able to give some real advice as to what could or could not be done / achieved through the German court system.
Asking a taiwanese lawyer, and here i mean taiwanese in nationality and experience their thoughts and advice, will mean nothing, the battle will have to be held in the german courts.
My last point would be that tohers have asked as well, why - if the case - was the father given sole custody, it is unusual even here in Taiwan for this to happen. If he does not have sole custody then we are daeling with an entirely different kettle of fish, but again a german lawyer is who you need to speak to.
As an alternative, try speaking to the citizen advice office within the german office here in Taipei, if you ask to speak to the head of office, it is likely to be a german, and if nothing else they can probably put you in touch with the right people.
If you can, step away from the moral aspects of this a second, which I think everyone would agree are unjust. Look at the legalities.
Several people have questioned as to whether he had sole custody, and your last post does not clear this up, although it indicates that he may well have done.
If so then he has the legal right to remove him from the country and take the boy to Germany. Does not matter about the moral aspect, it was legal.
[/quote]
I didn’t bother reading your post past the point where I quoted up to…since you don’t bother reading my posts.
Let me repeat myself:
It is illegal to remove the child from the country without telling the other parent. When told the other parent if he or she chooses can contest custody. Even in the case of sole custody…since sole custody still has visitations.
That’s the law…for everyone in Taiwan sandman. If you have a child in Taiwan and are granted custody…you still have to make legal arrangements before you can take the child out of the country and away from the other parent, especially when that parent has visitation rights…which she has…and that was something he didn’t do.
I actually repeated myself twice there…
ok…I read the rest of your post which asks more questions that I’ve already answered…why did he get custody? Because he is well off…and she didn’t have a job…since she was raising their child. He got custody and she got visitation rights…which state that “she is not be denied seeing him whenever she wants as long as it doesn’t conflict with the boys education…etc.”.
Although this guy seems to you and all of us like a steaming pile of excrement, stop and think for a moment. If you can imagine this: A hero would infuriate the male in this case. Right or wrong he isn’t here to defend himself and if I were in his shoes (providing the facts have been skewed) I’d most likely destroy said “hero”. Unless this woman is married to you, I would suggest you take a step back from it all.
“Smile don’tcha know God loves you…come to think of it…I love you too!”
[quote=“Mordeth”]Let me repeat myself:
It is illegal to remove the child from the country without telling the other parent. When told the other parent if he or she chooses can contest custody. Even in the case of sole custody…since sole custody still has visitations.
That’s the law…for everyone in Taiwan sandman. [/quote]
That’s the law in Taiwan, as you say, and it does not regulate what happens if the child is in another country, regardless how it got there.
[quote]If you have a child in Taiwan and are granted custody…you still have to make legal arrangements before you can take the child out of the country and away from the other parent, especially when that parent has visitation rights…which she has…and that was something he didn’t do.
I actually repeated myself twice there…[/quote]
That he didn’t do what he was supposed to do doesn’t change anything - Taiwanese law does not extend to Germany, so any issues related to visiting rights here are irrelevant for the time being.
What your friend should do is seek professional advise and see if there is a (legal) way to resolve the matter based on agreements between the two countries.
I am pessimistic though since Germany does not have formal relations with Taiwan, thus it might turn out to be a dead end.
Anyhow, get your friend to consult a lawyer and see what can be done.
By having sole custody he is not legally bound to notify the mother unless it is issued in the custody instructions. How would the mother now contest that if the courts have already issued custody is a matter best left to the legal eagles.
No one is saying that morally they don’t share your concern with the guy not having the courtesy to notify his sons mother.
It really seems that the whole custody issue is the crucial piece of information. As I said even though he has custody if the other parent has access ( visitation ) rights then permission may be required in the general case where one parent wants to relocate to another country.
However, as in my sons case, if one parent removes the child to a country where he/she is a national of that country then the issue becomes one for the country where the child now is. Sure a court in Taiwan may make a new ruling but it has to be enforced in the other country.
The German courts are unlikey to require him to return the child unless the mother can gain sole custody and access rights in Taiwan first. This seems to be unlikely. Her predicament may also be more difficult due to her financial situation. She may be required to go and reside in Germany for the legal processes to be completed, at which time she may not be a resident, and may not be able to stay for long enough. Proceedings can be delayed for whatever reason.
If he registers the Taiwan court order in Germany and it shows sole custody then it will be very difficult to change that.
Removing a child where one parent has custody and the other access is not necessarily a criminal matter. It’s a civil matter. If the courts had wanted to they could have placed a prevention order to prevent the child leaving Taiwan without having both parents permission.
Surely the mother must have known the father was going to leave?
It seems that the fathers rights in this case are legally stronger than the mothers… How can one steal one’s own child? Thats for the courts to decide.
When I went through my divorce, I was told by several attorneys that my wife would get custody. Why?
Because there is a law called something like “tender year law”. Basically, this law says that under five years old, the child needs to be with the mother.
I was a foreigner and the courts favored her. Also,I needed to prove that I had a job in my homeland, a good paying job, and that was hard considering that I was working in Taiwan.
It’s easier for a Taiwanese woman to show that she has family support which helps the judge decide in her favor. With family support, the judge often feels inclined to give the custody to the Taiwanese wife.
These courts are corrupt. I can absolutely prove it. I formally charged the high court with corruption. The court backed down. Why? Because I caught them red handed.
I personally would like to know how this German citizen got custody of his child. It sounds pretty amazing to me. If I were to guess, I would say that she gave up custody and now regrets it. There is a lot of stigma for a single mother with a foreign child.
I’d rather advise against that as a first step. Lawyers cost quite some money also in Germany.
On the other hand contacting the Jugendamt (‘Family Administration’) is pretty much for free besides postage. As they are the administrative body which will have a say in this whole issue anyways, I would turn there first in any case. Pretty easy procedure - IF you can use a German phone directory AND are able to do a few calls. With the address of the father in Germany find the bureau in charge. Write them a letter stating your case.
If a lawyer has to be involved to write that letter I like to leave open to debate. If it were my own case, I’d rather not involve one at that point and rather write the thing myself.
If REALLY a lawyer has to be involved for legal procedures or the thing goes to court (IF that is actually necessary), the Jugendamt will probably also explain if she can get Prozesskostenhilfe (i.e. get a lawyer paid by the German State). A LOT better than just contact a German lawyer out of the blue and probably pay through the roof unnescessarily for something he will do just because he will be able to charge for it later on.
Furthermore the Jugendamt can also do what a lot of posters here try in vain. Get a view of BOTH sides of the story.
[quote=“Satellite TV”]The German courts are unlikey to require him to return the child unless the mother can gain sole custody and access rights in Taiwan first. This seems to be unlikely. Her predicament may also be more difficult due to her financial situation. She may be required to go and reside in Germany for the legal processes to be completed, at which time she may not be a resident, and may not be able to stay for long enough. Proceedings can be delayed for whatever reason.
[/quote]
Well, she gaining custody again is one thing.
She getting letters, photos and speaking to the child ocasionally is a totally different matter.
Lawyers n stuff sound complicated and time-consuming…
If she wishes to raise the child in Taiwan, by herself, maybe she should lure him back.
From what you wrote, he still flirts with her and wants to exert control over her. So does that mean he still loves her, even though he is angry?
If he still does, then maybe your girl could feign missing him a lot, and tell him how miserable she is alone here in Taiwan without her husband and child, and how much she misses having a real family(with him and the baby)
She should do whatever she can to convince him to come back to Taiwan with her child to “start over as a family” or whatever.
If him taking the child to Germany was illegal, once she gets him back in Taiwan, she could call the cops on him quietly perhaps?
[quote=“lupillus”]Lawyers n stuff sound complicated and time-consuming…
If she wishes to raise the child in Taiwan, by herself, maybe she should lure him back.
From what you wrote, he still flirts with her and wants to exert control over her. So does that mean he still loves her, even though he is angry?
If he still does, then maybe your girl could feign missing him a lot, and tell him how miserable she is alone here in Taiwan without her husband and child, and how much she misses having a real family(with him and the baby)
She should do whatever she can to convince him to come back to Taiwan with her child to “start over as a family” or whatever.
If him taking the child to Germany was illegal, once she gets him back in Taiwan, she could call the cops on him quietly perhaps?[/quote]
I thought of this myself. I think it’s a good idea.
But to be honest…and I myself was confused about this in the past. I don’t think she actually wants her son back :s . What I mean is…she is a single mother from a not too well off family who hasn’t started her career yet. And the father comes from a well to do family…and lives in a much cleaner environment. I’m not doing a 360 on the issue…I’m just saying that right now it might not be in the child’s best interests to live here. But, she still just wishes she could see the odd picture or be allowed to talk to her own son. And that’s the true issue here…evidently. I was misled into thinking she wanted him back right away as well…it was clarified to me recently when I was explaining different avenues she could follow to regain her son. Her own mother is a single parent…so it might be best off with the grandparents who have the time and the money to raise him properly.
Yes, Mordeth we all agree that it would be considerate if the father would send pics and ley his son speak with his mother from time to time.
I know that my ex would make excuses at times not to let my son speak to me. Hopefully with a bit more time passing he will start to let the mother talk with her son.
I know that at the time of my separation that it would be good to let my son spend some time in Australia. He was 6 years old and didn’t speak any English, and I asked my ex to live in Canberra near enough to my sisters house where my son got to know his cousins. Anyway the kids in his primary school in Taiwan used to tease him for being Australian and not Taiwanese so he was happy to try something new.
I knew my ex would tire of the single motherhood and she did, after 5 years lol. It can take years for people to cool down. My ex wife parents would have me over for dinner to apologize for their daughters behaviour. I told them if they didn’t spoil her and grant her every wish things may have worked out differently.
My ex used to scare my son by saying she would send him back to Taiwan to a Chinese school where he’d have to study 14 hours a day…
But finally when he was here in Alishan he had a chat with my self and my sister ( she came for my wedding ) ( my ex wanted to come too , but I said No No No lol ) and decided that he liked it here enough to stay. He already had friends here from previous visits.
So one day his mom comes around to pick him up, so he teases her into saying she’d leave him here for chinese school… So he says, OK Mom, see ya later, you catch the plane home next week I’m staying here for 5th & 6th grade
And the rest is history
So as you know, things have come around for me and I’ve had my son living back with me the past few years, and he stays in Taichung with his mother during school term and spends some weekends and all vacations with me up here in Alishan.
The best interests of the child is sometimes hard to fathom for the parent who doesn’t have them.
On removing a child from Taiwan (not going on a vacation) where one parent has sole custody and the other has visitation rights . . .
The legal opinion of my colleagues who are admitted to practice law in Taiwan is that the parent with sole custody has a legal obligation, as is the law today in Taiwan, to advise the parent with visitation rights prior to moving the child so that that parent has the opportunity to make an application to the court to review the original order/agreement.
I do not want to get into a lengthy discussion on this point and I am just posting to hopefully add some clarity to the issue generally.
The grandparents have the time and money, but will they raise him properly?
Would the son that they raised slap his infant son and repeatedly beat his wife if he was raised in a loving, supportive, nurturing home? He is young, but that does not excuse this sort of behaviour.
Though her family does not sound very loving either. But she has the potential to provide him with love and support that he might not get if he were raised by other people.
If she trusts her ex husband’s parents to raise her son in a caring, loving, nurturing and supportive manner, then there is nothing to worry about.
I commend the efforts you are making to help this girl, not just saying, “she’s from a troubled family, she’ll be too difficult”. The world needs more white knights on their steeds.
I hope everything goes well for you two, and that she grows with your support.
[quote=“lupillus”]
Would the son that they raised slap his infant son and repeatedly beat his wife if he was raised in a loving, supportive, nurturing home? He is young, but that does not excuse this sort of behaviour.[/quote]
Well, first of all, I would say that the issue of Chind abuse is a very serious one, and not one I would look on lightly.
IE if this could be proven, then it ought to have a bearing on the custody issue. Slapping children is after all becoming illegal in more and more European countries, and at least in some parts of Europe, the courts would consider this a major issue when awarding or reconsidering custody.
However, we have only heard this from one source, and that’s not enough to determine if this has taken place.
Alas, this source is the source that has posted, thus the only source we are likely to hear from.
Therefore, regardless of what has actually taken place, we can only give the poster the best advice we have with the assumption that everything he tells us is true.
