I started the Guardian angel thread in the open forum and two posters thought it was a bad idea so they posted their insults instead of posting on topic(such things as this thread sucks, you need help). I contacted the open forum moderator and reported this situation as per the rules and as per Tigerman’s recent advices. The initial response I got is that he(Brian) did not consider the following a breach of the rules:[quote]This is a pointless thread hatched by a very bored person. Haven’t you got anything better to do? Who gives a shit? How sad.[/quote]
Then I sent him these two quotes.[quote]The administrators of Forumosa are working to provide a place where foreigners living in or interested in Taiwan can share ideas and debate in an atmosphere of mutual respect.[/quote] and[quote]If you are going to disagree with someone, please stick to the message rather than the messenger.[/quote]
At about the same time, another poster posted this in the guardian angel thread:[quote] It’s got nothing to do with you. If you don’t like what Hatch is posting, then don’t read it! And you are outside the rules here. Mod.s?[/quote]
Then I received a last pm from Brian telling me that he floundered the whole thread and that I should make use of the flounder forum for that sort of thread? I don’t get it? I have personal experiences related to this topic and I wanted to start a thread for it. Why is a thread like that not worthy of being archived? Why was the whole thread floundered? I would understand if I started a pissing match in it but I didn’t.
Again why was Guardian angels floundered? These are a few threads in the open forum right now: “If I had a bar…”," the dumbest thing my wife has said", “Personal quirks”, “I done something silly.” I have absolutely nothing against these threads personally. They are interesting if anything. Besides,people are allowed to talk about what they want here as long as it is within the rules and I would not post something like"this thread sucks" in any threads even the ones I really don’t correspond with.
What I find is not fair is that the thread was not even given a chance because some guy decided to post a snide remark in it. Why not flounder only the posts that are off topic?
I would also like to know why I would be told to use the flounder forum for such a thread? There is nothing wrong with this thread! It opens the door for a discussion about “spiritual guides” also opens the door for a discussion about the people who died in our lives. Why should that be posted in the flounders?
In brief. If I want to post about guardian angels, about my dead cousin or about things that relate to me like that, why can’t I use the archived forums? Under what principle does that sort of thread become not suitable for the open forum? I am honestly confused.
We are all different, so why tell me that what I post is not wanted in the open forum especially if other posters actually posted on topic in the guardian angel thread which suggest that I’m not the only one interested in this subject. Besides, “Guardian Angel” is a subject that I for one find pretty interesting and I’m not forcing the subject on anyone.
Now can the thread me moved back to the open forum and leave the inflammatory posts which aren’t mine in the flounders please. That would be appreciated.
From your initial post, I thought it was a joke. Some sort of light-hearted writing, not meant ofr any actual discussion. I didn’t realise people actually believed in guardian angels that they can talk to.
A lot of the thread, was an argument between Hatch, BroonAle, Amos and Tetsuo. Given the choice between the laborious process of splitting off the arguments into the Flounder forum, or just moving the whole thing, I decided to move the whole thing, becuase I was in a hurry and didn’t really think the original was that important.
Well, I might have been in error. I don’t really care. You shouldn’t either. It’s not a big deal.
1-I know it’s not a big deal. Just like half the feedback in this forum.
2-there was no argument between these posters. Only an argument between housecat and brooAle because broonAle posted in breach of the rules. It’s a short thread, See here: forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.ph … 6&start=15 My post to tetsuo was posted after you floundered the whole thing.
Also, I may not always post things that you find “normal” because we are different. It was not a joke and I appreciate that you are busy and doing this work for free out of the goodness of your heart and I thank you for that. But when you do get time, since you know it’s not a joke and that I’m not the only one believing in angels, perhaps you could merge it back.
Forumosa moderators are certainly within their rights to move posts and or threads to whatever place they feel is more appropriate. On the index page, the forum description for the Open Forum reads:
The Flounder/Temporary Forum descrition reads:
Who determines if a thread or a post is “especially silly”, or if a post deserves a permanent home on Forumosa? The moderators, of course. Forumosa cannot function without active housekeeping being done by our busy volunteers moderators. If you’re serious about not wanting to be floundered, read carefully and consider the four points to the right of every reply box:
A Friendly Reminder:
1.This is a message board for people interested in expat life in Taiwan.
2.Treat people with respect. Don’t be rude or bigoted. Discuss the message, not the messenger.
3.Familiarize yourself with the site before you start posting.
4.Respect the wishes of the moderators and administrators
I agree with Brian on this one. The post was pointless, and I somehow have a feeling that you like causing mischief or you need looking for attention. I’m not going to respond to whatever comment you have Hatch, just let it go.
Hatch -
I happen to side with you on this one.
I believe you demonstrated sincerity in your original post and continued to show your sincerity as the thread continued.
My posting on the thread was also made in sincerity.
It is unfortunate that others felt threatened enough by your thread to post rude insulting responses and turned it into some personal p*ssing contest.
It is also apparent that the posted rules of conduct do not apply to some members. Hit & run wise-cracks may have their place on some threads; one such as yours does not seem to be one of those places.
Each of us have personal credos or beliefs. To treat other members of this forum rudely on a thread regarding those beliefs is quite shabby.
I would like to believe that the Forumosa Administrators would agree to this.
Wow! So much I want to say and so brief I’d like to be. It’s not going to happen. I’m sorry but I have a lot to say and I hope after this I don’t have to talk about Forumosa ever again.
First things first, Thanks to Forumosa. Despite a difficult start here, I admit that all things considered…, I’m given a solid chance to voice my opinion here and I appreciate it. Goes without saying,thanks to Maoman for everything… Thanks for your post and your advices. I read it all very carefully.
I would like to thank other posters for posting their opinions. Regardless if you agree with me or not. As brian said, it’s really not that important. It’s just a thread. So no hard feelings here but perhaps a need for some clarification.
Now what needs to be clarified? Well… before I get to my point, I need to say this: Brian is telling me that I care too much… I care too much about the little things. I’m told to stop talking about Forumosa and to just post. I’m told stuff like this:[quote]The post was pointless, and I somehow have a feeling that you like causing mischief or you need looking for attention. I’m not going to respond to whatever comment you have Hatch, just let it go.[/quote] Frost is writing “just let it go” in this thread? Let go of what? Seriously!!! This thread is about a floundered thread and there he is; a moderator telling me to let go like if I’m just looking for troubles. IT IS MY OPINION! I believe that(Frost comment) was a transgression of the rules or it’s telling me “shut up with your feedback”. Why do I say that now? Oversensitivity? I return this and say this to Frost, brian, broonAle and anyone else interested in picking at me anymore: Let it go yourselves please! Frost posted two days ago in a thread that had nothing to do with “angels”…:
Now I’m getting to my point. The above quote along with the following quote illustrates what is happening to me when some posters decided that I post self-pitty stuff and that I’m the “be nice preacher”, “pseudo moderator”, “be nice advocate”. Whatever![quote]This is a pointless thread hatched by a very bored person. Haven’t you got anything better to do? Who gives a shit? How sad.
BroonAngel[/quote][quote=“the rules”]Do not follow someone into another thread to try to continue a disagreement you had elsewhere.[/quote]
Call me oversensitive all you want but it’s clear that both Frost and broonAle’s posts were directed at the poster and are related to previous discusions from other threads.
My question would then be the following: Why would you ask me to let go of something, (whatever it is…)if you can’t stop compulsively posting comments that are adressing me personally in a feedback thread and in a guardian angel thread of all? Again. Let it go yourselves.
Now what does that have to do with this topic. Well, I’m told to let go or give it up by two moderators here? They are suggesting that my opinion is annoying and less than valuable? “You should not care” I’m told. What do you care about gentlemen? Is it any of my business to tell you what I think about you? I don’t think so.
So stop trying to figure me out and give benefit of doubt. If you don’t like what I post, don’t read it or at least read it with a grain of salt so you don’t have to go personal on me like Frost, BroonAle, Bu Lai En, Tetsuo.
I read this thread after work today and also read the pms I received. One of the poster who posted in agreement with me here sent me a pm and asked me this question: “Are the things that you post about yourself actually true?” It made me laugh but it made me think.
The above is just me arguing. You see I’m like Tigerman to that respect. I love arguing. People think I just take things too seriously though.
Finally, here is the clarification part of this post: Yes it’s true. The things I post are true. Some say I’ve had it rough. You pushed me Frost and Brian, now you’ll have to hear it I guess.
My father was an alchoolic and I’m a beaten child. My brother is a junkey. Addicted to heroin and my mother is hooked on a respirator and she can’t leave the house. She broke her spine about 6 times(I lost count)because she also suffers severe arthritis and she’s been on cortizone for 10years now which weakens the bones. She applied for a lung transplant and within about a year, there is a fifty fifty chance that she’ll be leaving. Yet I’m here in Taiwan posting this self pitty shit and it’s really what I care about. Really! This forum is all that matters? Now there’s Eric from the Guardian angels thread who killed himself, his buddy, my other best friend Nicolas, went missing about six months after Eric hanged himself and he hasn’t been seen yet. That was over a decade ago. Did I mention my junkey brother isn’t my real brother? My mother cheated on my dad but you know religious family in the late sixties…They never told him but my mom told me when I was 18 years old. I forgot, Eric, Nicolas and I were a small ski team. I actually won the canadian national championship in 1986. Gold medalist and the nationals. It was a big deal back then. Anyways, it was a small ski team and some of the best times in my youth. Our coach was found in his cottage, he had also hanged himself. I’m the only one left of that once decent small ski team. Eric won silver at the junior world cup in Europe. Now would you like to hear about how I was exceptionnally bullied in school? How about half adozen other close who took their lives? Do you want to hear about that too? Do you know what it’s like to bare memories of having a whole playground of kids chasing you? Your loss, I would have told you but now your pissing me off and I’m about to call Roger Lalumiere for back up. And you have the balls to tell me that you are tired of reading my self-pitty posts? You have no idea what being annoyed with reading the same “poor me” crap is about. Trust me on that.
So what now? Are you crying yet?
I have luckily come out of this turmoil of shitty events remarkably sane. I have run three businesses in the last 10 years including my own and I live my life day after day just like all of you. I D’ONT WANT SYMPATHY! Just to talk with people who have similar interests which clearly doesn’t seem to be the majority here but that doesn’t matter. I don’t need dozens of replies in my Guardian angel thread. Just no offensive ones and having my thread left in the open forum since I’m not bothering anyone.
I have learned to appreciate strong emotions because otherwise, life would suck for me since I have had my share of emotions. This said and it’s my point to this very long post, I think the people I’m arguing with here are telling me that I’m beating a dead horse but am I? Or are they?
In brief, my interests seem to differ greatly from the ones of some local moderators and other posters. Is that a problem? Can we move on? I won’t post in your “inflatable doll” thread and don’t post in my guardian angel thread. I won’t tell you to let it go if you post in the feedback forum and return the favor. Don’t delete my threads please moderators “WHEN IN DOUBT” under assumption that I’m trolling for attention or what ever else. Give me a chance to post in my own thread before you dismiss my intentions.
One more time, I’m not like you and I’m not forcing anyone to read me. Now if Forumosa values having different backgrounds posting here, and that you guys are so"hip" and up with this place, I guess I’ve got something different to put on the table so I’ll conclude with this: Take it or leave it. Take it because I mean well and leave it if you don’t believe me Frost and Brian and anyone else because as I said, I’m not forcing anyone to read my posts and besides I’m not going nowhere. Either I’m hatch or someone else…Think it over and…
“I beg your understanding”
Sincerly,
hatch
ps.What do you post for? I post for fun. Nice is “fun”. Mean is “not fun”.
As I see it, what’s unfortunate about floundering the thread is that it implies that if someone doesn’t like a thread, then all he or she has to do is make some abusive posts on the thread, and the thread will be floundered. This might give the impression that abusive posts may be rewarded under some circumstances.
[quote=“Maoman”]If you’re serious about not wanting to be floundered, read carefully and consider the four points to the right of every reply box:
A Friendly Reminder:
This is a message board for people interested in expat life in Taiwan.
Treat people with respect. Don’t be rude or bigoted. Discuss the message, not the messenger.
Familiarize yourself with the site before you start posting.
Respect the wishes of the moderators and administrators
Follow these four points and you won’t go wrong.[/quote]
I don’t see which of the above was in any way violated by the particular thread that was Floundered… :s Can anyone identify which of the above four principles was violated by the subject thread?
I’ve said it before to the moderators in the mod forums… I think we mods can be a bit nicer, especially when we are apparently wrong in a moderating decision. What trouble would it be to move the subject thread back to the original forum in which it was posted?
The whole post was about you; how is one supposed to refrain from referring to the poster when the poster is talking about himself and an imaginary being called Eric?
Everyone likes attention to some degree but you invited it. When the response wasn’t what you wanted, you went running to the mods with a complaint.
If you are going to post about your imaginary buddies like Eric, brace yourself for the responses or don’t bother posting at all.
Plonker
And that epithet is based on the post which you posted and inextricably linked with yourself, the poster.
Oh, and I have never posted in response to any of your previous posts so the latter half of your sentence is false and a blatant lie when referring to myself. I am preparing a 29 page complaint to file with the mods to act immediately upon. And if they don’t reprimand you, I have another 100 page complaint prepared as a follow-up.
Well, now you know. I guess it was a mistake then. I don’t see why the thread couldn’t be moved back into the open forum now.
I’ve never given it much thought, but I’ve had a couple times in my life when I thought “someone” was watching over me. Some people would call it a guardian angel, some the force, others ninjas.
This is understandable. At first I thought to myself “You lazy bastard, it’s you’re ‘job’ go through the laborious process of splitting posts”. Then I realized how many post you must need to go through moderating the TP AND Open forum, so I think it was an honest mistake.
I just read through the whole thread and don’t see any reason why it should have been floundered.
[quote=“Tigerman”][quote=“Maoman”]If you’re serious about not wanting to be floundered, read carefully and consider the four points to the right of every reply box:
A Friendly Reminder:
This is a message board for people interested in expat life in Taiwan.
Treat people with respect. Don’t be rude or bigoted. Discuss the message, not the messenger.
Familiarize yourself with the site before you start posting.
Respect the wishes of the moderators and administrators
Follow these four points and you won’t go wrong.[/quote]
I don’t see which of the above was in any way violated by the particular thread that was Floundered… :s Can anyone identify which of the above four principles was violated by the subject thread?
I’ve said it before to the moderators in the mod forums… I think we mods can be a bit nicer, especially when we are apparently wrong in a moderating decision. What trouble would it be to move the subject thread back to the original forum in which it was posted?[/quote]
There we go, the gods step down to listen to the mortals. I know that the mods are normal decent humans, but the odd “Sorry, my bad” instead of “I really don’t give a shit” is much more appreciated than you may ever know. Thanks Tigerman, for standing up for the little guy.
The post from Hatch made an interesting point, Forumosa definitely has it’s own little cliques, MODS included. And it seems to be mostly males who are guilty of this! (Peace, ladies!) And those not in a clique may therefore think that their threads/ posts are floundered more quickly, more often than others. Discrimination? Alienation? Lack of understanding?
And yes, this is a FEEDBACK section, so really we can post whatever the heck we want, and should get responses along the lines of, “Thanks for your comments etc, duly noted,” not, “Im busy, I dont give a shit. Don’t care so much.” Imagine taking your car in to the dealership to point out a fault, and they say, “Im busy, it’s not that serious.” I love Forumosa, but damn i’d like to see some changes. Especially to RULE 4!
Final point, the post about Guardian Angels, to my mind, did not smell like a flounder. I believe that a ZOMBIE thread is still lurking in the open forum though… There is a sense of ‘what the moderator likes personally, or thinks is funny can stay’ rather than ‘these be the rules, this smells fishy, bye bye thread.’ But that is my opinion. Cut ALL the chaff from the wheat, not just the chaff that pisses you off. (How OLD am I, using an expression like ‘cut the chaff from the wheat!’)
Well, I might have been in error. I don’t really care. You shouldn’t either. It’s not a big deal.
Brian[/quote]
I was just warming up to posting again. I keep watching/ lurking and appreciate more and more just how damn well the site is run.
But, it only takes a whimsical floundering for me to review the decision to post again.
However, Bu Lai En is perhaps correct, just stated in an abrupt fashion. If you post then in a very small (tiny digital) way you become a public figure and just have to roll with the consequences for better or worse.
To further that analogy Bu Lai En was the editor and moved that particular news item to the back pages. His job, his call.
On the Hatch front, he went to the trouble of writing something he thought worthy of public viewing and was miffed that it got moved.
Seems the best answer is to have a thick hide and just roll with the punches or don’t turn up. I remain unsure how to proceed. Hatch, I suggest you just drop it and move back on topic or risk a tail spin and crash.
Cliques? Moderators get floundered too, you know. Can someone please unflounder my thread on sandwiches?
I wasn’t going to bother complaining because, frankly, it’s not important. Neither was my thread on blowjobs, although the topic is central to the human condition and deserves greater, er, prominence. I want them both back, and I want the mods responsible to be held accountable.
Bu Lai En should be sentenced to make my packed lunches for a month. I’ll think of something more appropriate for the moderators of love and discord.
Of course, this won’t come to pass because it’s just the bloody internet and it’s moderated by human beings who all have their own little foibles. The fact that we have differing opinions is what makes this community. Imagine pages of bland posts agreeing with each other about everything.
Everybody here is entitled to their opinion, and to express their opinion. That includes the moderators. We are not Olympian beings sitting on some mountain-top somewhere and casting judgement on ordinary mortals. We are just ordinary folks who sometimes find ourselves thinking “Christ! This guy’s a fruitcake and this is bollocks. This post is a waste of bandwidth.” Cue thunderbolts.
So what do you want? Rigid rules and a training program for volunteers. That’s basically saying “your common sense and intelligence count for nothing, like your opinions” and is unworkable anyway. It imposes one set of values on the site. Which set of values? The ones that say we can’t talk about nice things to put in our mouths? Or the ones that say people can abuse other posters and no action be taken? The values that say a volunteer with a wife and career to take care of in his spare time should patrol the open forum performing surgery on every pointless thread that seems to be going nowhere?
There is debate, often lively, among the moderators about how to do the job. The fact that we don’t all agree is part of the magic. The price is that there will always be someone disagreeing with some or other moderating decision, but it’s better than having the place ruled by the religious right or a bunch of woolly liberals, or some middle-of-the-roaders who won’t allow any extreme opinions.
I prefer a site where everyone, including the moderators, is allowed to have their own opinions. It means capricious decision-making, but it also means you have the right to challenge those decisions, to enlist the suport of other moderators, and it means having a broader consensus that evolves continuously. Diversity is good. Learn to live with it.
