Fewer naturalizations - Spaint

Fascinating

Maybe now that it is easier to become a permanent resident, people choose this over nationality?

Yeah, probably. I don’t see any particular advantage in acquiring citizenship.

I don’t think Taiwan is especially reluctant to “open it’s doors” though. Compared to a lot of other countries, it’s an absolute breeze to live and work here. They’re just selective, which is a Good Idea, especially if their selection process includes me :smiley:

That was from a Chinatimes editorial, it had zero comments from Taiwanese when I looked at it, translation: nobody gives a rats arse.

besides, getting Taiwanese citizenship has too many restrictions and it is too risky as they can cancel it easily within 5 years.
permanent residency doesn’t give you anymore rights than joining family visa so many like me haven’t applied yet, plus it’s weak as they don’t you a Taiwan ID number and you don’t really get treated better by financial institutions or the law.

[quote=“finley”]Yeah, probably. I don’t see any particular advantage in acquiring citizenship.

I don’t think Taiwan is especially reluctant to “open it’s doors” though. Compared to a lot of other countries, it’s an absolute breeze to live and work here. They’re just selective, which is a Good Idea, especially if their selection process includes me :smiley:[/quote]

Funny you mention that. The conclusion of the editorial was:

[quote]We propose that the government follow the examples of Hong Kong and Singapore and liberalize its immigration policy to accept whoever is willing to become Taiwanese. (Editorial abstract – Jan. 17, 2015)
[/quote]

I do not think Taiwanese people do not care about this issue, as much as they fear. Last boatload of strangers wasn’t that pretty. Current samples of foreign residents, though carefully chosen, and mostly law abiding citizens, do include protruding disgraces that stink the whole lot up. Taiwanese would prefer to leave the Island themselves and are rather wary of who would like to take their place.

I’ve considered acquiring citizenship as a way to travel more easily in China.

[quote=“headhonchoII”]That was from a Chinatimes editorial, it had zero comments from Taiwanese when I looked at it, translation: nobody gives a rats arse.

besides, getting Taiwanese citizenship has too many restrictions and it is too risky as they can cancel it easily within 5 years.
permanent residency doesn’t give you anymore rights than joining family visa so many like me haven’t applied yet, plus it’s weak as they don’t you a Taiwan ID number and you don’t really get treated better by financial institutions or the law.[/quote]

Please post the link to the article you are referring to . One thing…
Citizenship should give you a lower tax rate! My wife, who handles family accounting says that all my assets are taxed more. Plus, if you can get that ID number, you can buy things on Ruten! That is enough of a benefit.

Getting citizenship taken away easily within five years? I don’t think I’d do anything at all to even make that happen. If I can get citizenship without loosing my US citizenship, I’d go for it. Funny and unfair though. My wife can get US citizenship if she wants it. All my kids have dual citizenship, yet I can’t.

I hear some countries let you renounce citizenship as long as it takes then give it back to you. The US doesn’t play that way.

It could take one year to get citizenship meanwhile you wouldn’t be able to travel right? another Dealbreaker not that Id ever give up my Irish citizenship.

[quote=“Taiwan_Student”][quote=“headhonchoII”]That was from a Chinatimes editorial, it had zero comments from Taiwanese when I looked at it, translation: nobody gives a rats arse.

besides, getting Taiwanese citizenship has too many restrictions and it is too risky as they can cancel it easily within 5 years.
permanent residency doesn’t give you anymore rights than joining family visa so many like me haven’t applied yet, plus it’s weak as they don’t you a Taiwan ID number and you don’t really get treated better by financial institutions or the law.[/quote]

Please post the link to the article you are referring to . One thing…
Citizenship should give you a lower tax rate! My wife, who handles family accounting says that all my assets are taxed more. Plus, if you can get that ID number, you can buy things on Ruten! That is enough of a benefit.

Getting citizenship taken away easily within five years? I don’t think I’d do anything at all to even make that happen. If I can get citizenship without losing my US citizenship, I’d go for it. Funny and unfair though. My wife can get US citizenship if she wants it. All my kids have dual citizenship, yet I can’t.

I hear some countries let you renounce citizenship as long as it takes then give it back to you. The US doesn’t play that way.[/quote]

Someone got sued in a traffic accident…lost her citizenship.

So dont be so sure

[quote=“Confuzius”][quote=“Taiwan_Student”][quote=“headhonchoII”]That was from a Chinatimes editorial, it had zero comments from Taiwanese when I looked at it, translation: nobody gives a rats arse.

besides, getting Taiwanese citizenship has too many restrictions and it is too risky as they can cancel it easily within 5 years.
permanent residency doesn’t give you anymore rights than joining family visa so many like me haven’t applied yet, plus it’s weak as they don’t you a Taiwan ID number and you don’t really get treated better by financial institutions or the law.[/quote]

Please post the link to the article you are referring to . One thing…
Citizenship should give you a lower tax rate! My wife, who handles family accounting says that all my assets are taxed more. Plus, if you can get that ID number, you can buy things on Ruten! That is enough of a benefit.

Getting citizenship taken away easily within five years? I don’t think I’d do anything at all to even make that happen. If I can get citizenship without losing my US citizenship, I’d go for it. Funny and unfair though. My wife can get US citizenship if she wants it. All my kids have dual citizenship, yet I can’t.

I hear some countries let you renounce citizenship as long as it takes then give it back to you. The US doesn’t play that way.[/quote]

Someone got sued in a traffic accident…lost her citizenship.

So dont be so sure[/quote]

Link or it didn’t happen. I am on the news every day and I have not seen that one.

[quote=“Icon”][quote]We propose that the government follow the examples of Hong Kong and Singapore and liberalize its immigration policy to accept whoever is willing to become Taiwanese. (Editorial abstract – Jan. 17, 2015)
[/quote]

I do not think Taiwanese people do not care about this issue, as much as they fear. Last boatload of strangers wasn’t that pretty. Current samples of foreign residents, though carefully chosen, and mostly law abiding citizens, do include protruding disgraces that stink the whole lot up. Taiwanese would prefer to leave the Island themselves and are rather wary of who would like to take their place.[/quote]

Yes, that sounds like an astoundingly bad idea - the implication is (a) becoming a citizen of Taiwan is somehow a step down and (b) any halfwit or criminal should be allowed to apply.

Taiwan’s residence system isn’t perfect - permanent residents are still treated as second-class citizens - but it’s not too bad. The downsides are fairly minor IMO.

This seems a bit unlikely. The whole point of being a Taiwan National is that you’re Taiwanese, and therefore treated as such under the law. No Taiwanese citizen can have their citizenship revoked simply for losing a court case.

Ah…but they can. They can be thrown out for immoral behavior, such as cheating on a spouse. Famous case with a Vietnamese lady a while back who became stateless.

Google search
‘divorce leaves some Vietnamese women broken-hearted…’

Also google Frozen garlic second class citizens

Supposedly there are 1000s of these stateless women in Taiwan!

BTW, only 30 or so non Asians have received Taiwan citizenship!

sooo … “foreign” citizens are still not actually citizens, then? One more reason not to bother.

That’s an awful lot of illicit humping going on :smiley:

Well …given the quality of their husbands (in general) and how they were trafficked (sometimes)who can blame them.

Mostly, it is first of all being a woman -laws applied to the foreign spouses were also applied decades ago to local women. Which is why foreign women end up marrying these cads. Basically, they are used to bear children and dumped at the soonest excuse, without a chance to see their kids. Since they have no work and no legal recourse to stay, they remain stateless in the Island and undocumented for all purposes. Not the same condition as whitey educated fare but yes, even whitey is second class citizen in terms of lack of legal protection and worst enforcement. But many not so affluent Taiwanese can say the same.

The moral ground, for instance, as in adultery, is something that local Taiwanese can also be charged with. The consequences are dire for them too, though being stripped of nationality is not one of them. In the case in question, it was presumed that the marriage was illegitimate, for green card purposes only -or its equivalent- and that was the charge that made it stick enough to have the nationality removed.

And yes, we’d be sitting pigeons in case someone doe snot like us during those years, but face it guys, even with your marriage visas, we are all sitting pigeons. For instance, anytime your wife decides she’s had enough of you, and hell hath no fury, she’ll get y’all kicked out. So legally speaking, you have some advantages as citizen, standing on the same ground, as equals before the law, and if wise enough , not give wifey chance to have complains that stick. ARC or not, if someone makes a charge, you will have to fight it in court. You lose your temper, you will end up on Apple Daily.

So why bother? Increase the fighting chances, perhaps. maybe if you have more at stake, you have more to lose, indeed, but if you have already been here a while, you’ll know the ropes. It is a choice, it is not for everyone.

While I don’t think Confuciuz’s example is a real one, there is a similar case where an ethnically Vietnamese immigrant cheated on her Taiwanese spouse. She lost her Taiwanese citizenship because of “bad morality” and was rendered stateless. Even her kids ended up losing their nationality.

appledaily.com.tw/appledaily … /35496894/

Basically, if you are not born Taiwanese or one of your parents isn’t, you are a second class citizen and can have your right to citizenship revoked at any time. What a joke of a country.

Yeah we went over this a few mo ths back. A Dpp legislator was arguing against the good morals clause as too many trivial matters are criminalized here and a Taiwanese needs zero evidence to have you charged with such things as public insultment or infringement of liberty. Zero evidence.

By the way the prosecutor just through out the case against me. Freeedooom!!

Congratulations!

You get a recommend for this! Congrats. You should write a novella on navigating the Taiwanese justice system as an innocent foreigner facing trumped up charges.

[quote=“finley”]…

Yes, that sounds like an astoundingly bad idea - the implication is (a) becoming a citizen of Taiwan is somehow a step down and (b) any halfwit or criminal should be allowed to apply.

Taiwan’s residence system isn’t perfect - permanent residents are still treated as second-class citizens - but it’s not too bad. The downsides are fairly minor IMO.

This seems a bit unlikely. The whole point of being a Taiwan National is that you’re Taiwanese, and therefore treated as such under the law. No Taiwanese citizen can have their citizenship revoked simply for losing a court case.[/quote]

They can give it, they can take it away … same in Belgium now, you get nationality, you don’t behave … out! (not over a simple traffic case, but serious criminal cases)

That’s totally daft. You can understand a “probation” period, but a citizen is a citizen. If foreign-born citizens don’t have the same package of legal rights/obligations as natural-born citizens, then they’re not citizens. They’re just legal aliens.

Honestly, if lawyers were capable of thinking logically the world would be a much simpler place.