No part of the US constitution discriminates between a born citizen and a naturalized one (except for serving in the presidency). If a court can’t strip me, a native Californian, of my US citizenship, why should it be able to strip anyone else of it?[/quote]
It shouldn’t, unless you were proven to have commited high treason or something equally horrible. After all, we could argue what’s worse, if revoking your citizenship or killing you in the name of the law.
[quote=“headhonchoII”]I don’t think you understand the meaning of the word citizenship Tommy.
I can understand it being revoked if lying on the application or having committed war crimes prior to application.
But any crime after gaining citizenship you should still have full citizen rights…that’s the whole point! You can’t have different classes of citizens![/quote]
Yes, I didnt’ say that I did not agree with this 
YES, once a citizen, there should be no difference, as long as one did not lie on the application thus changing the basis upon which citizenship was conferred.
IN the case of marriage, in the USA, the spouse has to live in the USA continuously for 3 years before he/she is able to apply for citizenship. And must pass a citizenship test (one which apparently most Americans would fail).
Before getting such citizenship there are actually two green cards the spouse must first acquire.
One is the provisional two year green card. Where they make enquiries as to whether your marriage is real or a sham. And then once again when you apply for the permanent green card, they again examine whether your marriage is genuine or not.
IF your marriage had dissolved in the first instance or in the second instance the spouse may lose his/her green card status. I say may because he/she may not. It depends upon the individual circumstance.
I dare say that if the spouse who acquired a green card was having an extramarital affair , he/she would likely get his/her green card cancelled. Because the basis for the issuance of the green card was marriage. And if that marriage was no longer in working order there would be no further condition for the green card. Some exceptions are allowed. For example if the spouse was subjected to abuse or physical or mental harm, the court may allow a divorce and allow the spouse to continue to enjoy his/her green card status. But if the spouse was cheating outside of marriage, I am pretty sure the green card status would be cancelled and the spouse likley deported. Divorce optional. Deportation assured.
Once a person becomes a US citizen, it would be very unlikely for that person to lose his/her citizenship. Provided the questions answered during the initial green card application remains NO in all instances. NO to being a member of a foreign government, spy, murderer, person of il repute, etc , etc , etc.
[quote=“Icon”][quote=“spaint”]Fewer naturalizations.
That is all.[/quote]
Non Native.
Less = non countable nouns
Fewer = countable nouns
[/quote]
Only teasing, Icon. I know you’re a non-native speaker. Anyway, it’s a typical native-speaker mistake.
There is nothing strange about this if it happened as described, and similar ways of losing one’s status exist, for example, in Japan, Canada, and Germany (just to mention a few countries with whose legal systems i am a bit familiar).
There is no universal definition of what citizenship entails - some countries even expel people who had citizenship from birth onward.
And revoking an acquired citizenship if it turns out it was granted on false premises seems logical enough.
I can imagine it would not be ‘simple enough’ at all, I can see such a case failing in front of the court of EU human rights every time.
You can try to justify it, Yuli, but there’s no excuse for making a woman and her two children stateless and stranded in Taiwan.
Possibly, since the crime was committed before citizenship was granted; it’s not so much that citizenship has been revoked, it was never really valid in the first place.
Still, you would expect the authorities to do their due diligence first. Likewise with BP’s example of criminal gangs. Once citizenship is granted, you would expect that a Citizen is a Citizen. Otherwise, there ought to be another word for Citizens who don’t actually have the rights and duties of Citizens.
Point is, citizenship shouldn’t be handed out to every random passerby who asks for it … as the journalist in the OP was suggesting.
Also as previously said, such cases are aplenty, by reasons of their own volition but mostly not. Common case is that they lose their nationality when marrying abroad. I know a couple of cases women were brought here under false pretenses, and at least one where hubby ran away with passports and all IDs and kids cannot be registered as ROC citizens since that has to be done by daddy but he’s gone.
Please educate me… If you are stateless here, and there is no place to deport you to… plus you have kids, how do you put bread on the table? Do they have special “stateless” work permits? Do the kids still get to go to school? Where do they stay, and how do they pay for it?
Please link to a few stories about being stateless in Taiwan.
The case I know kids couldn’t go to school nor had NHI. This mom and family survived off donations, but most work illegally, paid under the table. They stay until they get caught. As to deportations, that is a funny one.
There is a particularly poignant case where baby’s the parents were both deported, baby is here in limbo, no ID, no way to reunite with parents. No way to go to school or receive medical attention.
[quote=“Icon”]
There is a particularly poignant case where baby’s the parents were both deported, baby is here in limbo, no ID, no way to reunite with parents. No way to go to school or receive medical attention.[/quote]
That’s terrible, Icon. Who looks after the baby ?
[quote=“pgdaddy1”][quote=“Icon”]
There is a particularly poignant case where baby’s the parents were both deported, baby is here in limbo, no ID, no way to reunite with parents. No way to go to school or receive medical attention.[/quote]
That’s terrible, Icon. Who looks after the baby ?[/quote]
La caridad.
There is special UN statute for stateless people. And mostly they deport you to your original country, unless you can get a long procedure to hold it up.
Your “original country” won’t accept you, because you have nothing to do with them. They might as well export you to Iraq.
Your “original country” won’t accept you, because you have nothing to do with them. They might as well export you to Iraq.[/quote]
It depends on the country but Iraq seems a good choice.
While I don’t think Confuciuz’s example is a real one, there is a similar case where an ethnically Vietnamese immigrant cheated on her Taiwanese spouse. She lost her Taiwanese citizenship because of “bad morality” and was rendered stateless. Even her kids ended up losing their nationality.
appledaily.com.tw/appledaily … /35496894/
Basically, if you are not born Taiwanese or one of your parents isn’t, you are a second class citizen and can have your right to citizenship revoked at any time. What a joke of a country.[/quote]
I can’t read Chinese. No one around to help me interpret right now. I assume the article states that her kids were stripped of citizenship too.
Were these kids adopted by the Taiwanese father from the girl’s previous relationship or are these kids children of the Taiwanese father.
If these are his kids something is really different from my understanding of the rules…
Just before I had my first kid here, the understanding of Nationality was that the children were the nationality of the father. Whether the father was good or bad, wanted the kid or not. When the child turned a certain age, he or she was shipped out of the country. As to where they go, I don’t know. I’d like to learn more.
Right now, under the new rules. The kid has the nationality of both the father and mother. You’re not even allowed, I believe, to refuse Taiwanese citizenship. I was scared my kid would not be a Taiwanese citizen unless I applied for something. They told me that she already was. Just worry about AIT.
These children’s father is Taiwanese? So, I’d assume that they would “belong to the father” or at least 50% belong to the father. Why is the father not going for custody of the kids? How can you remove citizenship from someone whose parent is a national.
By the way, I’m condemned to the country bumpkin lifestyle. I can tell you there are a good number of men here who are , well somewhat mentally deficient. They choose mail order brides. One mail order bride was open about leaving this dude as soon as she gets here citizenship Bingo, that day came and she left, leaving the children behind. Let’s just say that people from these particular countries are not well liked among some locals down here.
And Tommy has given a detailed explanation addressing this issue, as well.
For the answer see above.
Are you talking about the world as you’d like it to be or the world as it is? You can do the former if you like - my comments were only about the latter (i just happen to be somewhat familiar with laws regarding visas and residence permits and citizenship and all that in several countries). 
The way you described the situation of a particular woman it looks pretty obvious to me that/why more countries than just Taiwan would see a reason to at least consider stripping someone in that situation of her acquired citizenship (even if other countries might arrive at a different decision than Taiwan or handle the situation differently, especially if the well-being of children is an issue).
Obviously there is an altogether different problem that needs solving: the question that Icon addresses, whether the Taiwanese procedures for conferring and taking citizenship away are adequate by design and if so, whether they are properly applied, those are different issues on which i have no opinion since i have no experience with them. In a general sense, i agree with this:
[quote=“Icon”]The case I know kids couldn’t go to school nor had NHI. This mom and family survived off donations, but most work illegally, paid under the table. They stay until they get caught. As to deportations, that is a funny one.
There is a particularly poignant case where baby’s the parents were both deported, baby is here in limbo, no ID, no way to reunite with parents. No way to go to school or receive medical attention.[/quote]
It sounds like either the applicable rules and procedures are inadequate or people don’t know how to apply them properly.
Oddly enough, even in countries that have a lot of experience with immigration and a well-established set of rules and procedure, like Canada, end up looking really foolish and inept at times (i recently posted something about two badly bungled citizenship cases in Canada, one involving a person who has lived most of his life in the country and who has a family but who can’t get citizenship because he has no papers). At the end it comes down to people: people passing the buck, people acting like robots instead of humans, people not recognising that no rule set can ever fully account for all possible situations and that some common sense is needed to deal with reality.
Those that are stranded in Taiwan who fell out of the box should be reconsidered for citizenship. We have people in America too that fall into grey areas.
In the USA, if a woman gets married to an American citizenship and she has children that she brought with her (and the father is not the husband). The children get a green card at the same time as the woman. If the woman ends up abused. The court will allow the woman to get divorced if she so chooses and her and the children will retain their green cards, and be able to apply for US citizenship after the prescribed three years of residency.
If however, she commits adultery, the courts MAY strip her of her green card and her children’s green cards MAY also similarly be stripped. They will then be deported back to their home country.
It is understood they still retain the citizenship of their home country and can return there. IF for some reason there is no way for her to return. She can seek the services of an immigration lawyer to petition for her and her children to retain their green cards and legal residence. The court may find favor in that and allow her to retain legal status.