Filipinos to Start Teaching English in Taiwan

Have you ever spent much time trying to speak to any of those Filipina maids and factory workers? You can definitely tell that they are non-native speakers. Yes, their English is better than that of Taiwanese and Japanese, but that’s not saying much. Filipinglish is fine for basic conversation but anything advanced? Can your average Filipina maid teach Business English or explain grammar (especially when their grammar lapses into Pidgin English quite often)? If you’re going to let non-native English speakers from the Philippines in, then to be fair you’ll have to let all non-native English speakers from all countries in. Because I’ve met many French, German, Eastern European, and Dutch (they’re especially good) who speak better English than Filipinos. The Philippines’ proud claim that it is the third-largest English speaking country in the world is a bit overblown, IMAO, considering that nearly everbody speaks Tagalog or their native dialect in everyday conversation, only using English in schools and on formal occasions, and when they do speak English, it’s a simplified pidgin with lots of grammatical mistakes.

Granted, Filipino English is better than the Jamaicans’ or Scots’, but that’s not saying much either…

On edit: This isn’t to say that those with the correct degrees, the educated middle classes of the Philippines, can’t teach English properly if they’ve studied it in university as their major…I’m sure there are plenty of those qualified. I’m just pointing out the majority don’t speak standard English and shouldn’t be fobbed off as native speakers.

We are not talking about “your average Filipina maid”, we are talking about people who speak good English and are qualified to teach it.

We are not talking about “your average Filipina maid”, we are talking about people who speak good English and are qualified to teach it.[/quote]

There are just as many continental Europeans who speak English just as well and are just as qualified to teach it. Why not let them in as well?

The reason why is that the Taiwanese government isn’t qualified to judge foreigners’ level of English. They honestly have no clue whether someone’s English is good enough or not. So, to avoid this hassle, Taiwan only allows people from countries where English is the native language of the majority, to be allowed to teach English. The Philippines and India and Singapore are not a native English speaking countries, even if many people there speak English at a high rate of fluency.

Why do you need continetal Europeans when Filipinos are much cheaper, ready willing and more than able?

HG

A) Because the ROC government is not competent enough to administer exams judging the quality of a speaker’s English level

B) Because too many Taiwanese are bigots who will not accept dirty black people as teachers, they are only fit for menial jobs such as maids. Only blue-eyed white people can really speak English, in the minds of many people on this island.

I understand what you are saying, though I mightn’t have put it quite so forcibly.

Still I always like to remind the Taiwanese that they were the Amhas to a generation or more of Filipinos - it always pays not to kick anyone on the way up, etc.

HG

Yeah, I can see it all! Ten years from now all the Taiwanese parents will be squabbling over which English accent is better, the Filippino or Indian one. Then there will be some grayed old nob who will wish for the good old days when life was more simple.

Get a grip guys! The Phillipine governmet routinely makes these grandiose offers to the world. The recently offered skilled pilots to fly 747s to the EU. They guaranteed that their highly skill pilots would fly for less that 30,000USD a year.

This is just so much whitewash by the government there, and regardless of the claims of the Phillipine’s government, the predominant question of most Phillipines is, "What can I do to get out of this f##kin’ country?

Teach English, fly an airplane?

If Cuba were the Philippines, everbody in Miami would be speaking Tagalog.

As for the Indian accent, let’s all sing a song!

The eternal question remains: if there are so many intelligent, skilled Filipinos all over the world, why can’t they get their shit together and turn the Philippines into a liveable country?!

Oh, that’s right, because all the Filipinos with brains and talent get the hell out as soon as they can. Which leaves nobody with brains or talent back home to run the country. Which makes Filipinos who can leave…see, it’s a vicious circle.

[quote=“mod lang”]The eternal question remains: if there are so many intelligent, skilled Filipinos all over the world, why can’t they get their shit together and turn the Philippines into a liveable country?!

Oh, that’s right, because all the Filipinos with brains and talent get the hell out as soon as they can. Which leaves nobody with brains or talent back home to run the country. Which makes Filipinos who can leave…see, it’s a vicious circle.[/quote]

That sounds like a place I know.

Great thread. Its fun to see the racisn coming out among those feeling threaten by this.
They can do the job and damn well deserve the current going rate.
And it is more racism to think they need the “agents” to find this work here. This is simple economic slavery and racist discrimination.
Disclaimer: I have spent quite a few years living and working among very well educated Pinoys and Pinays.

Many of those Indians and Singaporeans that people laugh at for their funny accents can of course segue (heh heh) into a jolly pucker RP accent as and when required.

It’s not just the British connection either, although that got the ball rolling. They have, despite throwing off the yoke of Nasty British Imperialism Yah Boo realised that it is worth continuing to regard English as important and maintaining high standards in education and public discourse. And it is a matter of pride, and often, in India for example), necessity.

Send a bunch of qualified Asian English teachers off to West Sussex for a month’s elocution lessons (if you feel you must - I don’t) and you’ll have some great teachers of English. Easy.

(Not RP as in the Philippines, obviously)

[quote=“TainanCowboy”]Great thread. Its fun to see the racisn coming out among those feeling threaten by this.
[/quote]

Where is all this “racism” in this thread? If you had been paying close attention, you would that is not the case. “Racism” is the easiest thing in the world to accuse anybody of, so please take such ugliness elsewhere.

[quote=“mod lang”][quote=“TainanCowboy”]Great thread. Its fun to see the racisn coming out among those feeling threaten by this.
[/quote]Where is all this “racism” in this thread? If you had been paying close attention, you would that is not the case. “Racism” is the easiest thing in the world to accuse anybody of, so please take such ugliness elsewhere.[/quote]Mod Lang -
Cool your jets. My comment is direced towards the Taipei gov’t offices who are treating those from the PI as chattel and their acquiescence with the ‘agents’ who are nothing more than modern day slave traders with their ‘official’ alliances and sanctions to conduct their extornionist business. Their is no justifiable reason that techers coming from the PI should not be ale to enter the Taiwan english teaching world in the same independent manner as those from England, NZ, Oz, the USA, SA and the other accepted countries.
Thats my opinion and meaning.

We are not talking about “your average Filipina maid”, we are talking about people who speak good English and are qualified to teach it.[/quote]
But are they more qualified than the Taiwanese already here? I’ve met a number of Phillipinas who have a good command of English. But I have yet to meet one who doesn’t have the same sort of 2nd languge learner mistakes I hear from advanced Taiwanese here who lived abroad for a time.

Personally, I don’t see them competing for my job, but rather for the jobs of local teachers here. But then, isn’t there already an oversupply of teachers here on the whole? If I were a local citizen I’d be up in arms over this demanding the government keep local jobs for local people.

If this is meant to bring in Phillipinas/Phillipinos with near native competency to join the ranks of “native English speakers” I am skeptical about the number of people who qualify and very skeptical about the government’s ability to determine who should be brought over.

Your message sounds to me like you believe all brokers (‘agents’) are modern day slave traders

I agree that there are certainly bad brokers- there are bad businesses everywhere. But do you go further than me and believe that there shouldn’t be any brokers at all?

Well, given the incredible financial outlay thus far and the results, I’d have to agree with you. :wink:

By the way, the Flips are going to undercut our livelihoods thang is a perennial freak out for English teachers in the region. ESL teachers in Thailand recently went through their own freak out after yet another teacher got inappropriately close with his kiddlies.

HG

[quote=“ed”]Your message sounds to me like you believe all brokers (‘agents’) are modern day slave traders
I agree that there are certainly bad brokers- there are bad businesses everywhere. But do you go further than me and believe that there shouldn’t be any brokers at all?[/quote]ed -
I would make the distinction between professional “Headhunters”, who I do believe might be a useful asset in some fields, and the detrius known as ‘agents’ here on Taiwan.
I believe that a person is entitled to all their wages for their labors. This currently legal (although in very gray standards) process is nothing more than indentured servitude and in a lot of cases slavery, plain and simple.
The system as I have seen it, up close and personal, here on Taiwan is disgusting. And IMO are in violation of most of the so-called “Human Rights” issues so widely voiced by a lot of people.

But, at this point, this is a system so deeply ingrained in the business/economic model on Taiwan that, frankly, it is going to take some outlandishly horrible example receiving world-wide pulic exposure to even start the ball rolling to change it.

I have few real bitches about Taiwan - this is one of them.

We are not talking about “your average Filipina maid”, we are talking about people who speak good English and are qualified to teach it.[/quote]
But are they more qualified than the Taiwanese already here? I’ve met a number of Phillipinas who have a good command of English. But I have yet to meet one who doesn’t have the same sort of 2nd languge learner mistakes I hear from advanced Taiwanese here who lived abroad for a time.

Personally, I don’t see them competing for my job, but rather for the jobs of local teachers here. But then, isn’t there already an oversupply of teachers here on the whole? If I were a local citizen I’d be up in arms over this demanding the government keep local jobs for local people.

If this is meant to bring in Phillipinas/Phillipinos with near native competency to join the ranks of “native English speakers” I am skeptical about the number of people who qualify and very skeptical about the government’s ability to determine who should be brought over.[/quote]

Yes, that was my original point, but you expressed it better.

Taiwanese sometimes look down on other Taiwanese teaching English. What makes anyone think that they’re going to treat these English teachers any better than they do factory workers.

I feel sorry for any of these teachers that come here.

[quote=“TainanCowboy”]I would make the distinction between professional “Headhunters”, who I do believe might be a useful asset in some fields, and the detrius known as ‘agents’ here on Taiwan.
I believe that a person is entitled to all their wages for their labors. This currently legal (although in very gray standards) process is nothing more than indentured servitude and in a lot of cases slavery, plain and simple.
The system as I have seen it, up close and personal, here on Taiwan is disgusting. And IMO are in violation of most of the so-called “Human Rights” issues so widely voiced by a lot of people.[/quote]
TC, I am not trying to get under your skin, but I would like to take this discussion further. I am genuinely curious if there any alternatives to the broker system that you are upset with.

I actually hadn’t thought about executive search consultants when I read what you wrote about ‘agents’. By ‘brokers’, particularly in the Filipino migrant worker context, I was specifically thinking about companies that recruit and place blue collar labour (like the Thai workers in the current THRC issue) and care-givers, household help and personal family nurses.

I have read elsewhere that they are a ‘necessary evil’ - fine. But let’s focus on the first part, “necessary”. How are high school and college graduates in the Philippines, Vietnam, Indonesia, India, and other countries, supposed to find jobs outside of their countries?

Unlike me, most cannot hop on a plane and enter Taiwan or the EU on a tourist visa, then see for themselves the work possibilities on their own. Neither is there a forumosa-like website for workers to facilitate their own job search. And if there are such websites, I would be interested to know of such resources because I have friends who could use them.

But here are middlemen - the agents and brokers - who earn their keep making these matches happen. One could argue that these are not good matches in the first place (and I would argue strongly otherwise).

Are all of these merely filthy leeches taking advantage of our innocent proletarian comrades? Surely not all. Are many of them? Possibly, maybe even the majority of them.

But my point is that by dismissing them as you have seems to imply what is better is to remove them from the equation. OK, but now what would replace them - direct hiring practices? Open-borders?

I also believe that one is entitled to all their earnings. What’s tricky here is understanding who determines how much is enough. In the case of some Filipino migrants, what you might consider are slave labor wages here are in fact 3 or 4 times what they would earn for similar work in Manila. Now, imagine the earning disparity to the provinces of the Philippines.

This reminds me of the argument of many anti-globalization activists in North America (you wouldn’t happen to be a tree-hugger, would you?), who complain about the exploitation of workers in the 3rd world - like Nike factories in Southeast Asia. The flip side - pardon the pun - is that there workers who are happily earning more than they would under normal conditions, but at wage levels that are still below what the activist would consider ‘normal’. And these same workers would be rather unhappy that Nike must restrict its activities and operations as a result of the activists’s efforts.

Here’s an added twist. Even if the Philippines and Taiwan threw open their borders to one another (say they built a bridge connecting their 2 main islands), I bet there would still be a role and use for the dastardly middlemen you speak of.
:idunno: