I think the promoters of the Gold Coast Indy car race at Surfer’s Paradise in Queensland had their attempt at that laughed out of court about 12 years ago.
[quote=“Lord Lucan”]
I often felt extremely guilty watching the races at Happy Valley from my uncle’s friend’s window without paying the HK$0.20 entry fee. I hope the Jockey Club isn’t reading this… 
[/quote]
We used to watch Northwich Vics play in the mighty GM Vauxhall Conference from the Kwik Save car park. Some of us used to climb on the bins to watch.
The same would be the case even if I don’t download the file. What am I supposed to do, buy every album ever made?
Yes, I could spend a year or two listening to radios until I happen across a song I wanted to test out. And I’m not aware of record stores that actually let you listen to CDs they have…except for a tiny sampling of hot sellers.
Or I could borrow a CD from a friend. But if I did that, the artist wouldn’t get any royalties… 
You assume too much. Where did I say in the above that I was actually doing this? Can’t I play Devil’s Advocate?
[quote=“Satellite TV”][quote=“Okami”]Why do you need to download music when you have youtube? FFS
I download TV shows, would probably even pay for it if their was a mechanism to do so. I also don’t want any censorship, so Taiwan’s TV is out.
I must have my Breaking Bad(My favorite), True Blood, Fringe, Tudors, Dexter, Damages, South Park, House, Heroes(has jumped the shark), and Supernatural.[/quote]
THere is a legal mechanism, it’s called satellite TV, where you pay subscriptions and yes these programs are available.[/quote]
That’s right, because the satellite TV provider is paying a licence fee to the original broadcasters, so they’re getting their expected revenue.
In addition, the provider adheres to the local government’s requirements to be a licenced provider.
Otherwise, it would be stealing on a much larger order than downloading, because the downloaders, at least, aren’t profiting from the illegal acquisition of the material.
If I can’t find a certain song any other way, I will download it. I don’t see how that is affecting the artist’s income. If Apple let me buy music on iTunes, I would. But it doesn’t, so I download it. Funny how they’re promoting illegal downloading while complaining about it at the same time. Of course I would prefer if people bought out album, but if they can’t find the CD any other way, I wouldn’t mind them downloading the songs and enjoying them. I wouldn’t even mind if they downloaded just a couple to see if they like it, because that way there’s the chance that they’ll like it enough to buy the album, whereas if they never hear it at all, there’s no chance at all.
Ah…therein lies the struck nerve!
I’m not big on TV anyway…of the few TV shows I like, I buy the DVDs.
[quote=“Maoman”]To be honest, a 20k (NT) fine would be scarier, because I could potentially afford to pay it. They might as well fine her 190 million dollars - it’s not going to make a difference to her.[/quote]But I’m guessing that with a 2 million fine, she’ll have to either make payments for the rest of her life and pass on the debt to her kids, or go bankrupt. The debt will not just go away because it’s too much to pay. At least I don’t think it would, but I’m not certain how that works.
marboulette
I have to wonder about her legal advice though. Who in their right mind would take this all the way to court believing they would win against the record companies? Why didn’t she just settle earlier like most people would do if they were caught?
You can’t squeeze blood from a stone.
With crushing debts like that, many opt for suicide. If that were to happen, the blood would then be on the hands of the recording industry.
A very poor outcome for the record companies: it just makes them look unreasonably greedy.
Such a punitive punishment would not have been handed down even if she had stolen every car in the record company car park.
In the UK, the PRS collects money from every single business to pay recording artists. They also collect from radio and TV stations. Their collections from radio and TV stations are based on estimates, not actual playlists, for the most part, and they will charge a tiny little cafe several hundred pounds a year to have the radio on. Even if you are only showing Sky TV, which you pay several thousand pounds a year for, they will still collect this money. And the government will collect its licence fee.
I have so far bought Rumours by Fleetwood Mac on vinyl (twice), my parents had it on 8-track, and I have also bought the cassette and CD. I have around 500 vinyl albums in the UK and a couple of hundred CDs. I am now expected to buy mp3s of the same thing, even though their quality is shocking.
Much of what I have on vinyl is deleted from back catalogues and only ghastly remixes or remastered versions are available on CD or mp3. (Including the album that is my avatar!)
And while we’re at it, let’s shed a tear for the artist. It is not the consumer that is shafting the artist, but the record companies. And I am talking here about genuine musicians, not ciphers selected by the record companies to be the vehicle for some new faddish nonsense to be foisted on the public at minimum cost. I am talking about talented artists who have a product the record companies know they will have to bid for.
These artists know the royalties from record sales are a small proportion of income. They have lawyers and accountants. They know the record company contracts will still charge them for every bottle of mineral water they drink, every taxi they take, and every expense they charge to the company before profits are distributed, if any. They know also the record company will take a percentage for breakages in transit, a legacy from the days of 78 rpm shellac discs. So they set up separate companies called ABC Management, ABC Touring, ABC Merchandising, and ABC Recording. Then they try and make as much out of the merchandising and touring as they can. They engage in an ongoing fight with their record company which obviously wants to control all these income streams itself. But if the band has a marketable product, perhaps evidenced by internet downloads, media coverage, and concert venue receipts, then the band has a barganing chip. “Artists” manufactured by record companies have no such barganing chip.
In a nutshell, fuck the record companies. Good music exists for our enjoyment DESPITE the record companies, not because of them. I doubt anyone will argue an album is not worth the ten quid that we might pay for it, but that does not mean music lovers must collaborate with record companies to rip off artists and ourselves. I’ve spent a small fortune buying music and concert tickets and occaisionally buy rare vinyl at way above the original price, and I don’t like the idea of being portrayed as a criminal because I download a few songs off the internet. By God I bought N.E.R.D.'s Fly or Die album from FNAC and couldn’t even play it on my bloody computer! I had to download it off Kazza!!!
The whole industry needs to take a good look at itself. Yes we’ll pay for music, but record companies don’t OWN music any more than Penguin OWNS Winston Churchill’s speeches. Bands are likely to continue to operate as small businesses until they have a product to sell (license, even) to major distrubutors (i.e. record companies) and enter into negotiations with at least a tiny amount of barganing power. Selling yourself to a record label such as EMI for five albums and then finding out they drop you after one to make a tax loss after they can’t get Radio 1 to play you is not commercial or artistic sense and will result in the break-up of your band and no music at all. (And of course they will bill you the £500k it cost to make your album.) This happened to a mate of mine’s band. Seven years with a small label, six albums, top ten singles, gold records, European and Japanese tours, then EMI contract, then break-up. And they all had lawyers, separate companies and everything. Such is the power of the Big Record Contract. A shame, but very common.
Put best, I think, by Morrissey…
Paint a Vulgar Picture
Lyrics by Stephen Morrissey
Music by Johnny Marr
At the record company meeting
On their hands - a dead star
And oh, the plans they weave
And oh, the sickening greed
At the record company party
On their hands - a dead star
The sycophantic slags all say :
“I knew him first, and I knew him well”
[color=#FF0000]Re-issue ! Re-package ! Re-package !
Re-evaluate the songs
Double-pack with a photograph
Extra Track (and a tacky badge)[/color]
A-list, playlist
“Please them , please them !”
“Please them !”
(sadly, THIS was your life)
But you could have said no
If you’d wanted to
You could have said no
If you’d wanted to
BPI, MTV, BBC
“Please them ! Please them !”
(sadly this was your life)
But you could have said no
If you’d wanted to
You could have walked away
…Couldn’t you ?
I touched you at the soundcheck
You had no real way of knowing
In my heart I begged “Take me with you …
I don’t care where you’re going…”
But to you I was faceless
I was fawning, I was boring
Just a child from those ugly new houses
Who could never begin to know
Who could never really know
Oh …
Best of ! Most of !
Satiate the need
[color=#FF0000]Slip them into different sleeves !
Buy both, and feel deceived[/color]
Climber - new entry, re-entry
World tour ! (“media whore”)
“Please the Press in Belgium !”
(THIS was your life…)
[color=#FF0000]And when it fails to recoup ?
Well, maybe :
You just haven’t earned it yet, baby[/color]
I walked a pace behind you at the soundcheck
You’re just the same as I am
What makes most people feel happy
Leads us headlong into harm
So, in my bedroom in those ‘ugly new houses’
I danced my legs down to the knees
But me and my ‘true love’
Will never meet again …
At the record company meeting
On their hands - at last ! - a dead star !
But they can never taint you in my eyes
No, they can never touch you now
No, they cannot hurt you, my darling
They cannot touch you now
But me and my ‘true love’
Will never meet again
Let me guess you buy bullshit pirated copies from China because… [INSERT meaningless excuses here ad nauseum]
Let me guess you buy bullshit pirated copies from China because… [INSERT meaningless excuses here ad nauseum][/quote]
I was unaware that Amazon.com, Target and Best Buy sold pirated Chinese DVDs…
Let me guess you buy bullshit pirated copies from China because… [INSERT meaningless excuses here ad nauseum][/quote]
I was unaware that Amazon.com, Target and Best Buy sold pirated Chinese DVDs…[/quote]
I bought a Simpsons DVD in Blockbuster here in Taiwan a few years ago, took it home and found out it was pirated.
What I’m wondering is why we can’t simply have a reasonable discussion about this issue without the conversation degrading into personal attacks.
You might want add my name to that list too.[/quote]
Done. So everyone but Anubis and BFM are freeloaders. 
Of course not, and don’t get me wrong. I think you are absolutely right given the current legislations.
But I’m thinking… Enough with pointing to what is negative about piracy. Why not look at the positive? The widespread of piracy isn’t all negative. It’s a force toward change in the industry, and it has other benefits in terms of arts being what it should be; enjoyable by all. Not just by the rich and famous so to speak.
Almost half the world — over three billion people — live on less than $2.50 a day. 80% of the world live on less than $10.00 per day.
How are these people supposed to get their tunes? Be lucky to even have a computer to download anything at all… There is something good about art being free for all, but there needs to be changes made to the industry so that artists get rewarded for what they are worth. The Britneys, etc… That’s just an abomination and it is yet another thing that burdens the chances of real artists getting the recognition they deserve. It’s all ass backward.
And these kids still have to pay for music just like us. One would say that pointing to the inequalities in the world doesn’t make piracy anymore acceptable. Of course not, unless it was legal and not considered a crime. It’s not like the vast majority of the world’s population can afford to pay for art in any shape or form. Until then, I’m doing my part; I’m freeloading.
marboulette
Let me guess you buy bullshit pirated copies from China because… [INSERT meaningless excuses here ad nauseum][/quote]
I was unaware that Amazon.com, Target and Best Buy sold pirated Chinese DVDs…[/quote]’
So you won’t buy pirate copies of dvds but you will illegally download cds and mp3s, how exactly does that make any sense?
You are compartmentalizing your morality here and just won’t admit downloading mp3s is stealing. All your cleaver analogies don’t deter from the fact that it is stealing intellectual property. Be clever all you want but you are still coming up with lame excuses to justify your theft.
I would have more respect for you if you would man up and say " yea fuck it so what? I am stealing it! those record companies deserve to get fucked" or something… but all these mental gymnastics to justify your cheap ass crime of convince is just lame. If they did this or if they did that… blah blah blah where in life do you get to dictate the terms in which laws you feel like following?
I refuse to accept that an industry that promotes shit like Britney and so forth ad nauseam has any merit at all, nor deserves to be protected from those who think otherwise. Most modern music is marketing, not talent nor art. And the shylock industry that has grown fat pushing that crap is redundant, outmoded, irrelevant except as far as they can pervert the taste of naive listeners, and as such deserves to fail.
not that I wish to promote illegal downloading, for that would be illegal.
Why do you jump to the conclusion that I’m downloading CDs and mp3s?
You might want add my name to that list too.[/quote]
Mine, too.
[quote=“shifty”]where in life do you get to dictate the terms in which laws you feel like following?[/quote]You can’t dictate terms in the law, but you ALWAYS have a choice to follow or not to follow the law. That certainly IS on your terms, and of course, you have to live with the consequences. Negative or positive.
marboulette