I’m afraid that by the strangest of personal moral standards, this, if it takes place, will mean that I will be forced to leave my family to return to the U.K.
Now I agree with certain contractual obligations to do with my relationship with the Taiwan Government company, but at officially offering my biometrics to them, I have to draw the line. Is there anyone out there with greater knowledge who can shed any further light on this segregation issue?
Seems to be becoming standard practice nowadays, sad to say. US definitely does it all the time.
If it makes you feel any better, they tried to promote fingerprinting amongst ROC citizens maybe 5 or 6 years back I think. Don’t remember what for… maybe that thing that lets you do government stuff online with a card reader? They gave up after a bit.
If you don’t want to be fingerprinted, you can always try getting ROC citizenship. If you’re an UK citizen, you should be able to get your citizenship right back.
Applying for a residence visa may not be the same thing as renewing one.
True.
Its even sadder to say that its only because the masses don’t see an issue with it. In just the same way as when Germans didn’t see an issue with having their religion printed on their I.D. cards.
theres no religion stuff in german ID cards btw.
Or you can just apply a thin layer of superglue to your fingers. If youre lucky, they wont insist and simply give up at the point when they believe you cannot be fingerprinted. Has been proven to work in my home country.
Theres also lots of tutorials on the internet on how to fake fingerprints. Only takes a couple minutes.
Basically you’ll need a printer, some super glue and some wood glue plus a few other things that are usually available in any household.
(Theres also a couple fingerprints of famos politicians available to download, just in case you find it too boring to fake some random print you’ve found on a door knob. might find them google)
I believe it will be hard to stop the trend fingerprinting in general, but proving how vulnerable that technology is might prevent them from actually using fingerprints as means of automated identification. I mean the security of this is a joke anyways, so why not add some fun to an otherwise very serious and worrying topic and get some fake John Lennon Prints in your passport/visa. (if available)
Of course there might be tough consequences to this, especially if a family is involved. But I think not only is it the right thing to do,
also if leaving the country for good is the only other viable option here (to avoid being fingerprinted), I wouldnt be too afraid of being deported someday.
Which is unlikely anyways. Cause the current generation of fingerprint scanners sucks, and it really doesnt look like that will change that in the near future.
apparently governments like japan, germany etc. wont just change their billion dollar fingerprinting infrastructure only because its useless and can be fooled by a 12y/o with some superglue.
Instead they would just repeat over and over how safe they are. Maybe people will start to believe it one day.
Unless you’ll get physically printed by an officer or so, youre safe with the fake prints. And usually entering and exiting the country should be the only occasions when youre asked for your fings.
edit:
oh crap! i just read the china post article which said the fingerprinting is for the sake of NATIONAL SECURITY.
it actually WAS in the first sentence, but since it wasnt capitalized, i must have overlooked it.
since i support everything and anything to fight the dirty terrorists, i hereby revoke everything i wrote earlier.
fingerprinting is good. be a patriot and help us fight those bastards!
and dont tell them about the superglue
I dont see a problem having fingerprints of all citizens on file. The FBI has all ten of my digits. I offered them my toes to toeprint as well but they declined. NO biggie.
Even 24 hour fitness now wants a fingerprint for club access. Which I find is fine. I use my finger instead of carrying around a card. No biggie.
good to know, which club is that?
now that i can get in for free…
i mean, i understand some people don’t care about being fingerprinted by governments,
and they dont care about companies being able to automatically record and analyse their daily routines,
but using a technology for entrance control that is known to be a joke…
thats kinda funny
I noticed something related at imigration in Malaysia recently: Citizens admited w/ automated processing. ID card scanned, finger(s) applied to touchpad, no need for forms or questions. There have to be more controls in place than just that, but it did look easy and quick.
Its not what they don’t do with them that bothers me, its what they could do with them if they wanted to that’s the issue for many such as myself. Its just presently a more polite procedure than what the Germans were offered. Here’s a nice description of an older German policy.
[quote=“tommy525”]I don’t see a problem having fingerprints of all citizens on file. The FBI has all ten of my digits. I offered them my toes to toeprint as well but they declined. NO biggie.
Even 24 hour fitness now wants a fingerprint for club access. Which I find is fine. I use my finger instead of carrying around a card. No biggie.[/quote]
So, what are you doing 24h on Forumosa, instead of going to the gym … 24 hours …
I saw 2 years ago that they have the fingerprint scanners already, in Banxiao … I asked them if they needed them or what they were for … didn’t get a straight answer.
[quote=“nomatt”]theres no religion stuff in german ID cards btw.
Or you can just apply a thin layer of superglue to your fingers. If youre lucky, they wont insist and simply give up at the point when they believe you cannot be fingerprinted. Has been proven to work in my home country.
Theres also lots of tutorials on the internet on how to fake fingerprints. Only takes a couple minutes.
Basically you’ll need a printer, some super glue and some wood glue plus a few other things that are usually available in any household.
(Theres also a couple fingerprints of famos politicians available to download, just in case you find it too boring to fake some random print you’ve found on a door knob. might find them google)
[/quote]
I also do not want to see fingerprinting, but just offhand I suspect the fake print strategies you are raising here would constitute a serious crime of forging public documents under Taiwan’s law.
For anyone who reads Chinese, the proposed law changes are here:
http://gazette.nat.gov.tw/EG_FileManager/eguploadpub/eg017057/ch03/type3/gov20/num7/Eg.htm
[quote=“riceworm”]For anyone who reads Chinese, the proposed law changes are here:
http://gazette.nat.gov.tw/EG_FileManager/eguploadpub/eg017057/ch03/type3/gov20/num7/Eg.htm[/quote]
Under paragraph (?) 5 you find currently the following wording
[quote]外交部 及 駐外館處 得要求申請人
面談、提供旅行計畫、親屬關係證明、健康檢查合格證明、無犯罪紀錄證明、財力證明、來我國目的證明、
在我國之關係人 或 保證人資料 及 其他審核所需之證明文件。[/quote]
Here is my rough translation:
[quote]MOFA and overseas offices may require from applicants
an interview, the provision of an itinerary and certificates concerning relatives, a health examination,
the absence of criminal record, financial resources, and the purpose of the visit to Taiwan, as well as
information concerning a related person or guarantor in Taiwan and other documents necessary for a thorough investigation.[/quote]
The new (proposed) wording is:
[quote]外交部 及 駐外館處 得要求申請人
面談、提供個人生物特徵識別資料、旅行計畫、親屬關係證明、健康檢查合格證明、無犯罪紀錄證明、財力證明、來我國目的證明、
在我國之關係人 或 保證人資料 及 其他審核所需之證明文件。[/quote]
Translation:
[quote]MOFA and overseas offices may require from applicants
an interview, the provision of personal biometric information, an itinerary and certificates concerning relatives, a health examination,
the absence of criminal record, financial resources, and the purpose of the visit to Taiwan, as well as
information concerning a related person or guarantor in Taiwan and other documents necessary for a thorough investigation.[/quote]
個人生物特徵識別資料 means “personal biometric information”, so the law provides for various measures, such as fingerprints, iris scans, face recognition, and whatever new methods may come on the market…
[quote=“Belgian Pie”][quote=“tommy525”]I don’t see a problem having fingerprints of all citizens on file. The FBI has all ten of my digits. I offered them my toes to toeprint as well but they declined. NO biggie.
Even 24 hour fitness now wants a fingerprint for club access. Which I find is fine. I use my finger instead of carrying around a card. No biggie.[/quote]
So, what are you doing 24h on Forumosa, instead of going to the gym … 24 hours … [/quote]
Thats just it, I did not actually GO to the gym. After a years membership , paying 35 bucks a month, i finally called it quits . I think i maybe went there a grand total of 20 times max in the whole year.
Its not what they don’t do with them that bothers me, its what they could do with them if they wanted to that’s the issue for many such as myself. Its just presently a more polite procedure than what the Germans were offered. Here’s a nice description of an older German policy.[/quote]
I think fingerprinting of all citizens is going to be the norm in the future and having your prints on file for visits to foreign lands is likely going to be the norm as well. Get used to it. IF you aint got nuthin to hide?
I dont think fingerprinting is going to lead to religious discrim and burning people at the stakes really.
We do it in the UAE as well. All of us need to get national ID cards and we have to give fingerprints as well as scans of the sides of both hands and the palms of our hands. No biggie.
Ummm – aren’t most foreigners in Taiwan already routinely fingerprinted? Whenever I go to get my ARC renewed in Taoyuan, there’s always a long line of Thai, Vietnamese and Filipino workers at the fingerprint desk.
That’s because they can’t tell them apart … or, some go home and change identity … than come back