Fired Three days after arriving

Legal Legal - Work
1

Hey, I need your help.

My employer decided to fire me three days after I arrived here. I just applied for my ARC but I don’t have it yet. (it is not a teaching job)
They said they want me to leave right now, but my contract mentions a two months notice, without any trial period.

I’m just quite confused about what to do, what are my rights and obligations.

The reason invoked is that my former employee in europe filed a complain about me for having done some hacking against their company, and they heard about it here through some mean.

Thanks for your help.

2

Sounds like gross misconduct, misrepresentation and several other contract negating factors have come into play. Hope you bought a return ticket?

3

Forget about that job, go home or look for another one.

4

The issue here is what the OP can get from the employer in Taiwan.

If the contract mentions two months’ notice, probably that is on the part of the employee, but if it is on the part of the employer as well – great.

Even if the contract mentions gross misconduct, that would be in relation to actions taken against the employer in Taiwan, not somewhere else – even supposing the allegations are true about what happened in Europe. So there should be no grounds for any action on the part of the employer in Taiwan based on European allegations. However, I’m pretty certain the TW employer needs no particular reason to fire. The question here would be how much notice is required by the employer before termination, and in the case of failure to give such notice, how much the OP is entitled to.

I’m not up on these aspects of the law. Hopefully someone who is will add an opinion.

5

Agreed. The first two responses were rude and inappropriate. In most cases I would think grounds for termination from the last job, in Europe, would have no bearing on subsequent employment in Taiwan. Of course one can’t give an honest assessment of the case without a fuller explanation of the facts.

Did the OP lie on his application, resume, job interview for the Taiwan job? Does he have a written contract with the Taiwan employer? What exactly does that contract say? What exactly did they say as grounds for the termination? In writing? Keep in mind that the employer apparently induced him to give up his prior situation in France, pack his bags and fly all the way over here in reliance on their offer of employment, which he probably had reasonable cause to believe would last for a reasonable period of time.

Depending on the facts, even if there was no explicit contract for a certain fixed term, it’s possible an implied contract of continued employment for a reasonable period may have been created. In the US that’s definitely possible. I don’t know about Taiwan. Telling him to pack up his bags and fly back is a crappy response. If the employer violated his legal rights and fired him without proper cause, breaching an express or implied employment contract, causing him thousands of dollars in damages, he shouldn’t just accept that and eat the loss. If he didn’t make material misstatements or omissions in the application process, I think he should explore further his rights under Taiwan law.

I haven’t brought any labor dispute to the authorities in Taiwan, but isn’t there some govt bureau for lodging and resolving disputes? What’s their name and contact info? Perhaps he should check with them. Also, to the OP, if you can read Chinese (or have a friend who can) you may want to visit 104.com.tw to look for another job. That’s Taiwan’s top employment website. Good luck.

6

Once you’re certain of the content of your contract and reason for dismissal, Contact the Council of Labor Affairs.

7

That would be Section 2 of the Taipei Labor Department located inside Taipei City Hall. I strongly recommend going there in person to file your complaint. It seems to me that the employee here relied on the contract of employment to come to Taiwan and should be able to claim at least travel expenses and start up costs here in Taipei.

However, the labor boards are mainly interested in enforcing your right under the Labor Standards Act (severance and so on). Unfortunately, those rights don’t kick in until after 2 months. Basically employment is at will (i.e. you can be fired at any time) for the first two months and after more rights kick in.

By all means, file your complaint. You might get something out of it but don’t expect too much. As MT suggested, put yiour energies into finding a new job. If you have technical skills, that shouldn’t be too hard.

8

That’s not correct. The CLA does not handle labor disputes. Those are handled at the city or county level. See my post above.

9

They really demanded that you leave Taiwan? That really isn’t up for them to say, right? Unless the job was regarding national security or some such issue…

edit
Are other jobs in your field available/common in Taiwan? Can you find another job quickly? You must have a resident visa. Has the company cancelled your work permit? I’d check in with the foreign affairs people to see how long you can stay in order to find another job.

10

i wouldn’t think that 3 days is enough time to have any legal recourse. There is usually a statutory 3 month cooling off period where both the employer and the employee can decide that it isn’t working and go their separate ways without having to serve a notice period. Maybe someone else on here knows more about Taiwanese employment law.

You certainly don’t have to leave the country on the company’s say so. You have a visa and if necessary you can do visa runs until you find another job.

11

Sorry but what employer is going to take the OP on given that he has a history of hacking with a prior employer? At the very least there will be issues of trust in any role that requires him to use a computer.

There is nothing in the original post to suggest that he left the other job to come here, in fact it sounds like he was lucky not to go to prison. If I were the employer I would also have fired him simply because his presence in the company presents a risk to the integrity of the entire organisation.

Lets assume that there was no lying at the application stage, and the OP simply omitted to mention his seedy past - would you not still feel there was a breach of trust? Its a bit like allowing a convicted padeophile to work in a kindy no?

As far as recourse - the apporpriate thing to do whether or not he leaves is for the OP to come to some kind of settlement with the last employer such that they do not divulge this information to future employers - this may mean an apology and recompense for any damages caused - or could be a lawyers letter suggesting that their actions have caused the OP loss and thus they should cease and desist or face legal retribution themselves.

Without resolving things with the previous employer the OP clearly cannot work in any field requiring computers or where there is access to sensitive data

12

Apparently the employer that just hired (and fired) him. But we still don’t know if he really did hack, or was just accused of it, and what exactly the hacking entailed, and if hte new employer was aware of it, or whether they have a legitimate right to terminate their contract upon learning of it, etc. You’re jumping too fast to conclusions. More facts are needed.

In the US 3 days would be more than enough time to create a binding legal obligation, if they recruited him, negotiated an employment agreement, induced him to pack up everything and fly across the world to accept the position. Heck, even 1 day on the job wouldn’t be required. In many such cases the court would find a binding employment contract was formed and even if it didn’t state a fixed term of employment there could be an implied agreement that the job would be for a reasonable time period unless the employee committed an infraction that gave reasonable grounds to terminate it early. That’s only fair and reasonable too, as he sacrificed a great deal in reliance on their promise.

I recognize, of course, that this isn’t the US and employees don’t have nearly the same rights here that they do there. But still, my point is simply that it’s entirely plausible he MIGHT have legal grounds to sue them for breach of contract and recover his damages, and if I were him (and didn’t commit obvious material misrepresentations during the hiring process or thereafter), then I would definitely look into that, rather than just quitting and eating the loss.

13

Wait just a minute here. Accusations of ‘hacking’ are made all the time by employers who are deathly afraid of employees who have skills that they don’t, who run the systems at the heart of modern business, and who usually underpaid and overworked. The mere filing of a complaint by a disgruntled ex-employer should not be given credence simply because the magic word ‘hacking’ was invoked?

And the comparison of hacking to pedophilia is distasteful at best.

14

MT is right. But the OP would have to go to court in Taiwan to get his claims enforced and that won’t be cost- or time- effective in most cases. The cost-effective way in Taiwan is to seek an administrative remedy through your local labor board. But as I mentioned before they are mainly concerned with enforcing rights and duties under the Labor Standards Act and those don’t kick until the end of the three-month trial period. It would be worth checking if a trial period is in the employment agreement. Sometimes employers leave this out because they are to cheap to seek legal or professional HR advice.

Is there an employment agreement?

15

I’d say take Feiren’s advice and go to the Labour Board. At least worth a try.
And then I’d be taking Edgar Allen’s advice regarding finding some way to stop your last employer following you with accusations. If they found you at this job, I’m guessing they’ll be able to find you at another one.
You certainly don’t have to leave the country on the say-so of the company that fired you – they don’t issue visas.

16

I thought the Salem witch trials were over !! I dont think we should jump to conclusions and hang the guy ! Lets get all the facts out on the table here. But certainly to fly all the way over here from France (and not just from Kaohsiung) should entail some sort of recompense. Hopefully he has a contract that lays out terms very clearly. I know of someone who came to work in Taiwan from England and he had a contract that could NOT be cancelled (outside of any illegal activities being done ) without payment in full . NOw that is a contract that is worth its weight in gold.

Reminder to everyone to make sure you have a solid contract (and dont just look on the bright side) before flying halfway round the world. And make sure they send you a roundtrip full value ticket up front.

edit: assuming “Frenchguy” came here from France here. Maybe he only came here from Sanchong. In which case… a taxi fare back may be in order?

17

Ok, thanks for all your inputs, wether they are supportive or not.

Actually MT got it quite right. I’m quite confident I didn’t do any hacking, and it is just that it ended very bad with my former employee, more on a personnal level (he actually physically assaulted me, but I just wanted to get away from it, now if I were to come back, I’ll sue this guy)

Also indeed, I packed up and came here for this job, and the contract mentionns a 2 year duration.

But wait, here’s the best, when I asked to actually see something official about them firing me, they just handled me a “mutual agreement of end of contract” which I of course refused to sign. They told me that in taiwan this is how they fire people, which of course I didn’t swallow.

Also interesting is that the beginning, they refused to pay my ticket back home, but by the end agreed, telling me I need to sign their agreement so that they could book the ticket.

Obviously something wrong is going on.

It is also to be noted that so far I just heard about rumors of an investigation, and it may well be my former employer who tried to tell them the polcie was after me to scare them.

To be honest, I’m not very confident in law institutions, and even less in taiwan.
I have 3 months on my resident visa, but I do’nt really picture me waiting for some trial to come.
Actually I’d be ok if they just pay me my ticket back, I don’t really picture me working in a company that can fire you for so lame reason, don’t try to understand what may be going on, and given how they behave.

18

Absolutely don’t sign. They don’t need you to sign to buy you the ticket. If you want to accept their offer, have them book and pay for the ticket first and then sign. They’ve already shown that they are untrustworthy by lying to you about this.

Tell them that you are going to the Taipei City Labor Board to file a complaint (are you in Taipei)?

Does your contract say anything about a trial period?

[quote=“Frenchguy”]Ok, thanks for all your inputs, wether they are supportive or not.

Actually MT got it quite right. I’m quite confident I didn’t do any hacking, and it is just that it ended very bad with my former employee, more on a personnal level (he actually physically assaulted me, but I just wanted to get away from it, now if I were to come back, I’ll sue this guy)

Also indeed, I packed up and came here for this job, and the contract mentionns a 2 year duration.

But wait, here’s the best, when I asked to actually see something official about them firing me, they just handled me a “mutual agreement of end of contract” which I of course refused to sign. They told me that in taiwan this is how they fire people, which of course I didn’t swallow.

Also interesting is that the beginning, they refused to pay my ticket back home, but by the end agreed, telling me I need to sign their agreement so that they could book the ticket.

Obviously something wrong is going on.

It is also to be noted that so far I just heard about rumors of an investigation, and it may well be my former employer who tried to tell them the polcie was after me to scare them.

To be honest, I’m not very confident in law institutions, and even less in Taiwan.
I have 3 months on my resident visa, but I do’nt really picture me waiting for some trial to come.
Actually I’d be ok if they just pay me my ticket back, I don’t really picture me working in a company that can fire you for so lame reason, don’t try to understand what may be going on, and given how they behave.[/quote]

19

I’m near Taichung.

The contract mentions about having no trial time at all…

Actually I’m not planning to pursue them for this.
I just want to get out of it.

I may consider signing their paper if they offer me some compensation.

My problem is that I don’t really now how serious is the case about me back home, and if I’ll have to appear in court or something…
Anyway it’s just a gross violation of presumption of innoncence, so they should pay for it.

20

Well, the case is more or less settled now.

They’ll pay me one month salary and my ticket back home, and gave me a termination of contract notice.

I don’t really feel like going further.

Thanks