I couldn’t find any feedback function on forumosafriends. But I did see that to any Taiwanese city entered into one’s own profile the wording “Taiwan (China)” is added. That’s absolutely awful for a site focusing on Taiwan. Fix this asap!
Maybe it’s not such a good idea to find a Hong Kong provider for forumosafriends. No companies in Taiwan who are capable of providing the service?
he he… good point!
I agree with you - it’s a slap in the face. We’ve talked to them about it, but they just don’t “get it”. For online dating services, unfortunately, it’s as good as it gets. Behind the scenes, we’re revamping www.taiwanted.com, and there will be a personals section, so hopefully people can use that, too.
In the meantime, please accept our apologies for this wrong-minded thinking.
Hmmm…I can imagine they don’t “get it” in Hong Kong!
Actually, they’re based in Shanghai!
Hmmm…the about page on forumosafriends states "Name of the company: Meta4 Group Limited:
meta4-group.com/ with offices in Hong Kong, Shanghai and Japan (in that order).
The “About” page on www.meta4-group.com states that the company “was founded in January 2000 and incorporated in Bermuda. Meta4 Group operates from offices in Shanghai, Tokyo and Hong Kong, with small offices in London, Toronto and Seoul.”
Sounds somewhat weird…
Cockhounds know no borders.
Knobbers Sans Frontiers.
[quote=“Guenter”]Hmmm…the about page on forumosafriends states "Name of the company: Meta4 Group Limited:
meta4-group.com/ with offices in Hong Kong, Shanghai and Japan (in that order).
The “About” page on meta4-group.com states that the company “was founded in January 2000 and incorporated in Bermuda. Meta4 Group operates from offices in Shanghai, Tokyo and Hong Kong, with small offices in London, Toronto and Seoul.”
Sounds somewhat weird…[/quote]
Please feel free to contact them about this issue. Ultimately, they’re about business, not ideology, and they’ll do whatever is in their best interest.
[quote=“Maoman”][quote=“Guenter”]Hmmm…the about page on forumosafriends states "Name of the company: Meta4 Group Limited:
meta4-group.com/ with offices in Hong Kong, Shanghai and Japan (in that order).
The “About” page on meta4-group.com states that the company “was founded in January 2000 and incorporated in Bermuda. Meta4 Group operates from offices in Shanghai, Tokyo and Hong Kong, with small offices in London, Toronto and Seoul.”
Sounds somewhat weird…[/quote]
Please feel free to contact them about this issue. Ultimately, they’re about business, not ideology, and they’ll do whatever is in their best interest.[/quote]
So take them down until they change that policy. Direct action gets the goods.
[quote=“redwagon”][quote=“Maoman”][quote=“Guenter”]Hmmm…the about page on forumosafriends states "Name of the company: Meta4 Group Limited:
meta4-group.com/ with offices in Hong Kong, Shanghai and Japan (in that order).
The “About” page on meta4-group.com states that the company “was founded in January 2000 and incorporated in Bermuda. Meta4 Group operates from offices in Shanghai, Tokyo and Hong Kong, with small offices in London, Toronto and Seoul.”
Sounds somewhat weird…[/quote]
Please feel free to contact them about this issue. Ultimately, they’re about business, not ideology, and they’ll do whatever is in their best interest.[/quote]
So take them down until they change that policy. Direct action gets the goods.[/quote]
We’re in a contract - and one that supports us financially, so we won’t be leaving them, but I have e-mailed them, and I strongly encourage you guys to do the same. Here’s their e-mail address: support@support.worldfriendsnetworks.com
[quote=“Maoman”]I agree with you - it’s a slap in the face. We’ve talked to them about it, but they just don’t “get it”. For online dating services, unfortunately, it’s as good as it gets. Behind the scenes, we’re revamping taiwanted.com, and there will be a personals section, so hopefully people can use that, too.
In the meantime, please accept our apologies for this wrong-minded thinking.[/quote]
I don’t agree that it is a slap in the face. After all, after the Japanese pulled out, when was Taiwan considered not a part of China? Isn’t this preferable to “Taiwan, Province of China”, which is pretty much what we can expect of other websites outside of Taiwan.
WorldFriends is a company based in HK and Shanghai - most development was moved to Shanghai 2 years ago. What would be genuinely surprising is if they did NOT make some accommodation about Taiwan’s status. I’m glad that the method they chose is the least offensive and the most sensitive around.
As Maoman has indicated, this is a matter that has been brought up and brought to their attention. I’m satisfied with their explanation, which in short said that they comply with the position held by most of the planet. When I find the other thread about this, I’ll merge this one with it.
Where I am still concerned is whether “Taiwan (China)” searches are lumped together with those in the rest of China. That is a real problem for Taiwan based users and makes the service so much less valuable. We have asked for better filtered profiles that we can use. We’ll continue to ask for them.
I do know that the system does work for Forumosans in Taiwan, ie. they have found suitable partners this way. And that is the most important thing - no matter how you refer to Taiwan
Well, it’s a Chinese policy tool to deny business, recognition etc. to entities that disagree with its core beliefs. In the same way, I avoid sites that follow the “Taiwan, China” or “Taiwan, province of China” folly. I am not going to encourage them to continue with this misguided policy by refreshing their ad a hundred times a day. Yes, I realize that this small gesture is insignificant, and I’m sorry if it puts a dent in the flob’s revenue stream!
[quote=“Goose Egg”]I don’t agree that it is a slap in the face. After all, after the Japanese pulled out, when was Taiwan considered not a part of China? Isn’t this preferable to “Taiwan, Province of China”, which is pretty much what we can expect of other websites outside of Taiwan.[/quote]I think the two names you cite are pretty much equivalent, I mean, if you believe that Taiwan is part of China, then you most likely believe it’s a province of China. I’m pretty sure that either of those names would be distasteful to most people on both sides of the political divide here. I don’t think it’s the most sensitive solution when most of your target market look askance at it. Other ways this has been dealt with on different sites is reclassifying the top-level division from “country” to “country or region” or just “region”, allowing the name “Taiwan” to stand unadulterated without the Chinese throwing their toys out of the pram.
But hey, it’s only a dating site and it does support Forumosa financially, so I would say that there’s not much point getting het up about this. I don’t think there are many people who will refuse to sign up based on the name alone. However to say it’s the best solution is a little wide of the mark - I think most people in Taiwan (foreign or local, blue or green) would disagree with you. They might accept it as something they can’t change, but they don’t like it one bit.
It would be easy to be pedantic and go into long winded arguments about the San Francisco Peace Treaty and so on, but I think it is more useful to just look at what words mean.
China is usually synonomous with the PRC or a country that has historically occupied a large part of the East Asian continent. Taiwan can either mean the island of Taiwan or the political entity that includes Taiwan, Penghu, Jinmen and Mazu. Generally the use of the words Taiwan and China is clear and unambiguous. It is only in technical discussions about constitutions and territorial sovereignty that you may need to be more specific about the terms used.
There is a clear consensus within Taiwan that Taiwan is a de facto independent country which includes Taiwan and the outlying islands. While one side of the political divide in Taiwan may prefer to call it the “Republic of China”, it is usually referred to as Taiwan in the vast majority of contexts.
Unfortunately when people outside Taiwan see the words “Taiwan (China)” they don’t think it means that it is Taiwan (Republic of China). They would generally perceive it to mean Taiwan is a part of the PRC, i.e. Taiwan (Province of China) or Taiwan (PRC). Those who live in Taiwan know that Taiwan definitely isn’t part of the PRC and it is why most people in Taiwan would object to the use of “Taiwan (China)”. It is also worth noting that even the current KMT government objects to the use of Taiwan (China) when Taiwan participates in international meetings.
Let’s just insist on calling Taiwan, Taiwan. It is the most clear and concise way of communicating without confusing.
I’m with Taffy, Wix, and most others here. It’s bad enough that many in the world are willing to toe the PRC’s line regarding calling Taiwan just about anything other than what it is: Taiwan. But when people in Taiwan itself – and on a site associated with the main forum in English about Taiwan, no less – are forced into associating themselves with belittling and fundamentally misleading labels like “Taiwan (China)”, there’s something at best distasteful about that. This really shouldn’t be happening.
And, anyway, when filling out info for a dating site, who wants to be forced into “self-dwarfing” behavior? 
There seem to be various levels of understanding of Taiwan’s history in forumosa’s management and a lack of awareness of sensitive issues for the main English language forum on Taiwan.
Maoman writes: "We’re in a contract - and one that supports us financially, so we won’t be leaving them, "
Not a good idea to become financially dependent on such a contractor! (sounds like a mini preliminary version of ECFA ).
I wonder whether they were aware of the “Taiwan (China)” thing when they signed the contract with the provider or “suddenly” only realised through my post? I also wonder how long the duration of the contract is? (business secret?). There should be an exit option if the contractor in carrying out his task insults the customer. What law applies?
Anyway, we can give the contractor a chance to correct his mistake. As Maoman suggested, I wrote an e-mail to them:
“When entering my profile details, eg the city of “Taipei” (or any other city in Taiwan), the caption “Taiwan (China)” is added automatically.
As forumosa is the main English language forum for foreigners living in Taiwan, you should be aware that forcing the phrase “Taiwan (China)” on the users of forumosafriends is considered highly offensive not only by Taiwanese but also by foreigners who identify with the place where they are living.
I believe your relationship with forumosa is a business relationship and not an ideological relationship.
For a professional business, the top priority should be customer satisfaction. I therefore strongly urge you to change the template from “Taiwan (China)” to “Taiwan”.
You are free to regard “Taiwan” as a geographical name rather than a political entity, if you choose to do so. Users are also free in their understanding of the term.
I am eagerly awaiting your response.
If I receive no satisfactory response within a reasonable period of time, I will delete my forumosafriends profile - and I may not be the only one to do so.
So, in the interest of customer satisfaction and professionalism, please act swiftly!”
The phrase “you are free to regard…” may be superfluous, I just wanted to “build them a bridge” - if it enables them to act the way we want them to, it serves its purpose.
So, go on everybody, mail them!
[quote=“Guenter”]There seem to be various levels of understanding of Taiwan’s history in forumosa’s management and a lack of awareness of sensitive issues for the main English language forum on Taiwan.
Maoman writes: "We’re in a contract - and one that supports us financially, so we won’t be leaving them, "
Not a good idea to become financially dependent on such a contractor! (sounds like a mini preliminary version of ECFA ).
I wonder whether they were aware of the “Taiwan (China)” thing when they signed the contract with the provider or “suddenly” only realised through my post? I also wonder how long the duration of the contract is? (business secret?)[/quote]
Hi Guenter,
No secrecy here - Gus (Goose Egg) and I are pretty much open books about most things.
We can terminate our agreement anytime we want to. So far, we’ve chosen not to because it is financially advantageous to us. The good people at TaiwanHo! and Taiwan Fun/Compass also partner with World Friends, for the same reason. It’s a partnership that allows us to earn a little bit of extra money, which we use to develop Forumosa and its sister sites (taiwanted.com, etc.)
I think Gus and I both agree that Taiwan is the preferred nomenclature. Where we differ is probably what action to take. On the grounds of principle, I think the more people that e-mail World Friends the better. You can do that with these two e-mail addresses:
press@meta4-group.com
support@support.worldfriendsnetworks.com
On the grounds of user-friendliness, I’d consider implementing a “personals” section on Taiwanted, which is currently being revamped. I think there’s room for both an online dating service partner, and a quick-and-easy personals section on Taiwanted. Gus isn’t convinced yet- I don’t want to speak for him, but I think he’s concerned about overlap. Although we don’t see eye-to-eye on this issue, we’re both comfortable with that, and both of us are willing to be persuaded. Heck, we’ve lived with the status quo on this particular issue for quite some time already! Another week, month, or year of the same won’t really matter.
Meanwhile, I’m grateful to you for reaching out to World Friends with your polite but no-nonsense e-mail. If enough people do that, I’m sure we can make it happen!
“Simpler” for overseas customers? :s
As a translator I work mostly for customers from Western Europe. I never use “Taiwan (China)” or “Chinese” when I mean Taiwan. “Taiwan (China)” is confusing whereas there is no ambiguity in using “Taiwan”.[/quote]
Definitely. It’s the oft-repeated thought (and I don’t know how true it actually is) that due to the cultural revolution, Chinese culture is better preserved in Taiwan than in mainland China. When an editor needs license for a photo along those lines, they’re going to search for China or Chinese, not Taiwan.
In that general cultural context that maybe the case, and I would also include a reference to China in the metatags of a Taiwan site to generate more traffic and allow for the lack of knowledge of Taiwan on the side of the general (Western) public.
Btw, the best example of confusion caused by using “China” in a Taiwan related context, is the “China Airlines”…
The issue in this thread is how to appropriately designate “Taiwan” in a Taiwan related site. “Taiwan (China)” is certainly not appropriate.
I got a first reply:
Dear member,
We are sorry to hear your recent experience with our service. We have
passed your comment to the appropriate department for their review.
Thank you very much for your feedbacks.
Kind Regards,
Worldfriends Networks CustomerService
<<
That’s good for a start. Let’s see what follows.