Let me explain some more. I’ll be leaving South Africa next month, and have no real intention of heading back there in a hurry.
Given, the country is experiencing a boom, a lot of people are doing well for themselves and there are plenty of opportunities for those with a good idea and a willingness to work hard at the idea.
However, after having lived in Taiwan for three years (’03 – ’06), teaching kids, teens, and adults, I’m ready for more.
Teaching that is. And living in a country/culture outside of my own.
Teaching proved to be profitable and enjoyable, with a big learning curve that kept me on my toes, and forced me out of my shell that I find myself slipping into with my editing job here in SA.
It also afforded me a lot of free time to do my own shit – reading, writing, surfing (the net), late mornings, or mornings at the pool topping up the tan.
Taiwan does test you on a lot of levels, and I rode some highs and lows, but would do it all over again, at the drop of the hat.
Which brings me back to my question.
I need to choose a country – a country I’ve lived in for three years, or a brand new one (so to speak), where I’ll have to learn the ropes, the streets, the people, the ways and whys.
Taiwan affords me a salary where I can save up to NT30 000/month (THB35 635), and still live very comfortably.
Thailand however sounds very alluring – warm people, beautiful country, cheapish cost of living, good nightlife, etc. The week I spent there in ’05 was awesome, but I didn’t see a lot to be honest.
China, Japan, Korea, Vietnam, Cambodia are all distant back-up destinations, and I haven’t researched them nearly as much as I have Thailand.
What ya reckon? Wherever I go I’ll be putting at least three years into. No less, probably longer, with the idea of possibly moving onto the next country, probably in Asia (unless of course I set up shop with a missus and it works out that I settle in that country).
Well, sorry to dissapoint you but i havn’t been to Thailand so i can’t say anything about it.
However, it’s really your decision. It really depends on what you’re up for.
If i was in the mood to tackle a completely new country i would definately do that. I don’t know anything about Thailand, and i’ve only met one Thailandish (is that right?) person… but they were very very nice .
So it’s really your decision. It sounds like you would live very comfortably in Taiwan and, since you’ve already been there, you know what you’re doing. However, Thailand would be incredibly interesting (since you’ve never been there before).
So it’s your decision really. I still haven’t been to Taiwan yet (going in a couple of months) let alone Thailand… so don’t have a real say in the matter, but i hope you do well in wherever you end up!
I hate people that only think of Thailand as a place for cheap sex. :fume:
Anyway I have lived in and taught English in both countries. I found it difficult to adjust to teaching in Thailand. The culture in the education system is very different to Taiwan. I found the students in Thailand difficult to teach and the administration of the schools incredibly hard to work with.
After a year in Thailand I decided to come back to Taiwan. Teaching in Taiwan is not perfect, but I feel more comfortable working here.
Also if you want to go to Thailand make sure your financial situation is secure. WHile you can live quite comfortably on the low salaries you cannot really save a significant amount of money.
Also it’s a bit easy to get sucked in to the allure of Thailand if you go there on holiday. The reality of living and working there is very different.
www.ajarnforum.net are excellent sources of information about teaching in Thailand.
PM me or post here if you have some more specific questions.
I think Mod Lang, as usual, summed it up rather nicely.
Couple of other thoughts. While both Thailand and Taiwan offer their unique frustrations, Thailand on a longer-term basis seems to throw up considerably more frustration for foreign residents. Basically it’s the legacy of a still developing country. Crime and poverty chief among them. While on a holiday this can be overlooked, however, living there and dealing with it on a daily basis is an altogether different matter. While there seems to be signs foreigners are wearing out their welcome in both countries, in Thailand this has manifested in a rise in unprovoked physical attacks on foreigners by Thai guys.
Have you considered China? There is a flourishing English teacher scene there and the pay is similar to Taiwan but visa issues are easier to navigate and the cost of living much lower.
HG
Edit:
Agreed, but the Thais themselves have done almost nothing to offset this perception. Anyway, China is cheaper.
Agreed, but the Thais themselves have done almost nothing to offset this perception. Anyway, China is cheaper.[/quote]
Neither have the expats in Thailand, either. You read your recommended links, and places like ajarn. com are filled up with sexpat trash posting about bargirls. 90% of the postings in that forum are about either beer or girls. I’m sorry for stereotyping, but there’s a reason for that, and everybody knows that, whatever the PC brigrade try to tut-tut as “well, not everybody, I know 1% that aren’t that way…”
Another thing to think about is if you may stay for several years (and bear in mind that many of the long-time, ie. 10, 15, or 20 year veterans of Taiwan, initially planned to stay for only a year or two) and you’re a single man it’s entirely possible you may end up marrying a local.
Of course there are endless variations within any culture, but I think it’s reasonable to question whether there are basic differences between Taiwan culture (and women) and Thai culture (and women), that could result in greater or lesser long-time happiness for you.
Most people would admit there are differences between people of Finland v. people of Brazil. Couldn’t the same be true between people of different Asian countries? It’s a simplification, but I believe Thai people tend to be more relaxed, easy-going and laid back. Key phrases in Thai speech are “bo pen yang” and “mai pen rai”, which roughly translate to relax, don’t worry about it, no biggie, doesn’t matter. Notwithstanding the hustle and bustle of Bangkok, Thailand is more relaxed, rural Buddhist land. Taiwan, on the other hand, is more of an uptight, screwed up, polluted, urban, modern land where everyones pushing to get ahead through cram school, overtime work and whatever it takes to claw oneself to the top of the pile, with a black mercedes and a Gucci bag.
Consequently, I would think if one wants to make lots of money and worry about lots of little things in life one might be better with a Taiwanese women. Or, if one prefers a relaxed, peaceful, easygoing lifestyle, one might be better off with a Thai woman. But, Huang Guang Chen could probably address that better than any of us.
Of course that’s a gross oversimplification, but I wonder if there might be some truth to it. Incidentally, I spent almost a year in Thailand many years ago and loved it, but I was on vacation, not working. When I first came to Taiwan, Thailand and Vietnam were also on my list. I’m now married in Taiwan with child (my short stay has now been 6+ years), so there’s no turning back for me. No regrets here, but still curious about how it might have been.
I think after you’ve cleared those pesky cultural nuances it all just boils down to individual personalities. I have to say, I’ve been lucky twice. Still, I think there maybe some truth to the your pocket being better off with a Taiwanese lass. Generally speaking I reckon they are better at finance than Thais.
While it doesn’t apply to me, many Thai families require a dowry for marrying their daughters. They also expect you’ll look after the extended family. Obviously this has great scope to play havoc in a relationship. There are also many tales of fleeced farangs.
On my last visit I a friend of mine living in Chiang Mai mentioned a retired Englishman living near him who had poured his retirement money into a touristy shop he’d bought for he and his wife. It being Thailand everything was in her name. She was off having an affair with some other foreign bloke and very much rubbing it in hubby’s face. The guy was about to be royally screwed, knew it and there was not a thing he could do about it.
It can be worse than that of course, far worse in fact. Here’s a recent horror story from Stickman. I don’t particularly like this site, which is very much focussed on the whole whoring side of Thailand, or the rabid paranoid and racist ravings that appear in it, rather a friend pointed me to this story.
After visiting Pattaya and reading the local paper I became fascinated at how many foreigners were being so obviously murdered by their Thai partners. The usual story is a middle aged foreign man jumps from his apartment. incidentally he leaves a bar and property to his Thai girlfriend/wife. Jumping from buildings is actually more an Asian thing, as foreigners tend to hang, shoot or drug themselves. It’s just the way it goes.
By the way, the story that follows was the second incident involving farangs shot dead in Pattaya, obviously at the behest of their partners, in two weeks. An English guy copped four bullets in the face the following week. he was married to a Thai woman and having an affair. It looked and sounded like a simple robbery attempt until further details emerged. She wasn;t charged, of course, and the two gunmen were also never found.
Steve Miller, a soft-spoken 39-year-old New Zealander and five-year resident of Pattaya, was shot and killed in broad daylight 10 days ago as he drove his motorbike on a quiet street in North Pattaya. What initially appeared to be just another random killing of a farang—so common in Pattaya—has, however, developed into a crime story that police might not have fully investigated if the victim’s friends and family had not hounded the boys in brown. The real story began six months ago…
By the standards of most men, Jen—a 30-year-old gogo dancer—wasn’t much to look at as she gyrated around the chrome pole. But like most things in Thailand, she was beautiful in the eyes of Steve Miller. Steve loved this country and was genuinely grateful to be living here. So the Kiwi bar-fined the dancer for the night and, eventually, bought her out entirely, moving her into his Pattaya apartment. He provided well for her and her family over the last six months, treated her like a princess, showered her with gifts, and remained faithful despite the temptations Pattaya offers all foreigners—even more so a handsome, mild-mannered young hunk with a constant smile.
Several months later, the expat was preparing to help purchase a house for his live-in girlfriend beginning by making a down-payment on the house. He had sold some property for two million baht and deposited 500,000 baht of that into Jen’s bank account so that she could qualify for a home loan. When the loan was approved earlier this month, she agreed to return the 500,000 baht, but said she must first go to Udon Thani to vote in the national election. She returned to Pattaya for a brief stay, only to return to Udon almost immediately to visit her family for Songkran. She insisted on driving home in the couple’s new car, leaving Steve no option but to tool around Pattaya on his motorbike. A week-ago Thursday, she left Udon en route to Pattaya with the understanding she would return Steve’s money the following day. That same morning, as Steve drove his motorbike from Big C toward Third Road, a passenger on a second motorbike produced a pistol, took aim, and shot Steve dead.
Jen was notified of Steve’s murder when she arrived in Pattaya. Being a dutiful if inconsiderate girlfriend, she immediately placed a call to Steve’s parents in New Zealand, shouting into the phone, “Steve dead. Come to Pattaya.” She repeated her terse statement, then hung up. The family was understandably mortified and bewildered. They learned more only when Steve’s friends called to inform the family of details surrounding his death.
Those same friends were able to piece together the financial dealings between Steve and Jen, and dug up other information as well—learning that Jen had two Thai boyfriends even while she was living with Steve. Her roommate revealed that she never loved Steve but was hardcore and a skillful manipulator, even in past relationships. Friends immediately suspected the Isaan woman’s role in the murder. They gathered what evidence they could and presented their case to the police. Jen was arrested, interrogated, and ultimately confessed to having hired a hit-man to kill Steve. Since then, the motorbike driver has been arrested, but the identified gunman has avoided capture.
At a televised news briefing—where police allowed no questions, Jen attempted to justify her crime, claiming that Steve beat her, forced her to participate in drug dealings, and stole property from her. Police encouraged her story yet produced no supporting evidence that the health-conscious body-builder was into drugs or dealing (his friends insist he was not, nor had he ever been known to strike anyone). Furthermore, the police denied any knowledge of the accused girl having 500,000 baht in a bank, or that Steve lent her the funds. However, friends presented financial records substantiating the transfer of the money from Steve’s account to Jen’s.
When family members arrived here from New Zealand, they were denied access to Steve’s apartment. Police explained they needed to take inventory of his possessions first. The family was finally allowed into Steve’s home this past Sunday, but found the place devoid of all valuables. According to the apartment manager, the previous day police had brought Jen to the apartment to collect her belongings; she took everything—including her savings passbook.
While the case now has been solved and two of the three suspects have been arrested, the question of justice remains unanswered. The glorious triumphs of police in arresting those involved in crimes generally are well promoted by police and the press; subsequently, little is reported on the fate of such criminals. Sources intimately involved in this case imply that the 500,000 baht might disappear into police coffers or may go to finance Jen’s bail, following which she may be allowed to do a runner or the matter may be delayed until forgotten by most. The family has hired an attorney to help ensure justice and return of the 500,000 baht, and friends—at their peril—promise to hound the police until all questions are answered and the killers prosecuted. While they are aware of the inherent dangers to themselves in accusing the boys in brown of misdeeds, they also know the influence that can be purchased for 500,000 baht. More importantly, they know how little value was placed on the life of a young, serene man from New Zealand.
Bart Vandermolan, the current Mr. Universe, hosted memorial services last Tuesday evening at the new Fairtex Sports Club and Resort on North Pattaya Road.[/quote]
I would look at Korea if it is about money. If it is about lifestyle then Thailand might work. i love Thailand and have been many times but would never live there as I think it would quickly drive me nuts. I enjoy Taiwan and could imagine myself getting sucked into staying here, I think it is a good middle ground but also think you will appreciate it more if you spend time in some other Asian countries. You could of course do a year in Thailand, a year in China, a year in Korea and then decide which if any of the 4 you would like to live in. I also understand that Japanese wages for English teachers are very good but I wouldn’t want to live their either.
I have lived in Korea, HK, Vietnam and now Taiwan and Taiwan is my favourite.
In my opinion, the class of English teacher is even lower in Thailand than in Taiwan. Why don’t you try Singapore, HK, Japan, or Shanghai?
There was once this blog linked to ajarn.com…Some teacher wrote extensively on his drinking in class and every hour of the day, about teaching lewd lyrics to his students (who loved them), and about banging anything with a pulse and spending 90 percent of his salary on hookers. The blog left me pissing myself laughing. Now while these traits and attributes probably can be used to describe a lot of expats in Thailand, but the man’s “steam of consciousness” ramblings and blunt language were truly delightful. He made no apologies for this behaviour and was one funny SOB. I was very sad when the blog link and his diary were deactivated (probably at the behest of a PC reader).
My advice — go there for vacation, get your two or three weeks worth of good food, flesh (if you are single), and fun, and then go back to another country.
For you Canadian hockey fans (Chewycorns was a goalie for 11 years before I decided to hang up the skates and hang onto the beer and gin), did you know that Howie Meeker’s grandson was busted for drugs in Thailand a few years back and that he taught English and coached hockey there ?
E.A. wrote [quote]I also understand that Japanese wages for English teachers are very good but I wouldn’t want to live their either.[/quote]
Not good at all - they’ve been virtually stagnant for over a decade. You’re looking at 250,000-280,000 yen per month. With the U.S. dollar worth about 115 yen this means US$2,174-2,435 per month. The government-run JET program that places foreigners in high schools offers about 300,000 yen per month. (US$2,542). Given the high cost of living, I wouldn’t go for the money. You get more bang for your buck in Taiwan, Korea and Thailand.
So I finally get to school, no lesson planned(On Mondays I can wing it), no food in my stomach, still a hungover from the night before, not ready to face a class full of M1 kids. Imagine my dismay that two of my classes were cancelled today. No classes= no money, no money = no booze. Oh I wasn’t told this, rather some students hanging around the classroom let me in on the secret.
A quick call back home to Suree confirmed the obvious, Suree didn’t give me the message. What good is having a girl if she makes you pay for bedtime, can’t take a message and doesn’t cook? Her words: I not secretary. You pay me, I make love you.
So now I have time before I go back to teach little rugrats. Prance around with little kids for 2 hours playing stupid games and generally acting like a clown. Not fun, but it buys me time with Suree and it buys me good whiskey. [/quote]
I guess it’s sort of ironic that I was looking to teach in Taiwan and stumbled onto this forum and consequently this post. I have been living and teaching in Thailand the last year and a half. Life here can be good but honestly if you thought Taiwanese people can be rather insular and narrowminded then you haven’t seen nothin’ yet. Thai people are relatively pleasant but they have just as many if not more narrowminded stereotypes, perceptions, and cultural quirks to work with.
Living here has its perks such as close weekend proximity to some beautiful beaches, low cost of living, and decent nightlife but socially foreigners or in a western foreigner’s case “farangs” aren’t really well regarded. The term “walking ATM” becomes synonymous with thai-farang relationships and there are lots of social presumptions based on this because of Thailand’s reputation. On the otherhand learning to speak Thai goes a long long way in determining the appropriate amount of respect you’ll receive in Thailand. Thailand is a tourist destination so it receives lots of foreigners everyday in Bangkok and the islands around the country. It’s not an easy language to fully grasp i’d say it’s almost as difficult as Mandarin. Nevermind trying to read thai script…good luck with that.
One of the other “perks” of this country is of course the famed nightlife if that is your thing. There are lots of sketchy establishments to spend your money on for cheap thrills but that sort of lifestyle is usually a path to nowhere. Too many retirees (sexpats), young drifters, and tourists get locked into that scene in Thailand. There’s plenty of beautiful locations to see and if you have the patience to develop language skills and acculturation here you can live a decent life but don’t expect to go very far financially or socially as a foreigner.
I guess could have named this post “Bang vs. Bucks” or “Loot vs. Lifestyle”.
I’m not into whoring, so that isn’t a reason for me to choose my next destination. That’s not to say I don’t mind ‘attractive’ scenery!
Much more focused on building my teaching skills and network, living (relatively) comfortably, and enjoying a reasonable quality of life, whilst saving for the future.
Having given it some thought I will in all likelihood head back to Taiwan, via Thailand (the latter seems to offer reasonably priced TEFL/CELTA courses, whereas there don’t seem to be any in Taiwan – I stand corrected on this).
If I fail to get a visa for Taiwan, for whatever reason, I might be lured into staying in Thailand for a year or so.
And China doesn’t seem like such a bad idea, although I’ve heard the horror stories of grime and crime. Can anybody suggest a city/town in China that would offer a similar quality of life, with similar infrastructure and amenities, to say, Taichung, where I spent my three years?
I was recently in Guangzhou, while obviously bigger than Taichung, there seemed to be a flourishing English teacher scene there with quite a few reasonable westerrn pubs and other venues.
However, finding somewhere offering the relative ease of life you can enjoy in Taichung is a hard ask.
For a further spanner, what about Vietnam these days?
.
?
