For Chinese culture don't come to Taiwan

Mod’s Note: This was split from [url=What's the point of working at a university in Taiwan? - #12 by ninman thread[/url]

If you’re interested in Chinese culture then DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT come to Taiwan. Sure they look Chinese, and speak Chinese, and in a lot of ways act Chinese, but this aint China. I’ve lived in China, and I’ve lived in Taiwan, and I can tell you there is precious little Chinese culture here. It’s full of shops, and modern stuff, all of which can be obtained in the UK. You will not find anything Chinese here, such as calligraphy, temples, buildings, music, clothing, nothing, not a thingy dingy.

If you move to China however you can see people practising Taiji in the local parks every morning, there are usually 1 or 2 nice temples to visit in just about every city, you can buy Chinese style artwork, clothing, read ancient books such as “三国演义” easily, and do all of the Chinese things you like. I have been here for two weeks, and been to all the major shopping districts in 台中, and I have yet to see anything that I would call Chinese. I haven’t seen a single tea shop. I even tried to get my buddhist style bracelet repaired here, (something which can be extremely easily in China), and it took me a long time to find anywhere that could do it, not only that I had to wait 3 days to get it done, and it cost me twice as much as it would in China, not only that in China they would do it right then and there when I walk in the store, it would take about 5 minutes and it would be finished, and they do a better job.

If you want Chinese culture go to China. Honestly, to find any Chinese culture (at least here in 台中), you have to look really, really hard for it. I even tried to find 布鞋 here (meishichina.com/Physique/Hea … 47792.html), and no luck. I thought like you before I came here, that it would be a rich environment for Chinese culture, but it’s really not, and the reason is because Taiwanese people DO NOT want to be called Chinese. As the girl I’m seeing keeps saying to me, “we look Chinese, but we are not Chinese”.

Ok, I have yet to see a single tea shop, shop selling buddhist style jewellery, or basically anything that I would call Chinese. In China it was EVERYWHERE. As the girl I’m seeing says “we look Chinese, but we are not Chinese”.

:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
You simply don’t know where to look for things Chinese, in that case. You obviously haven’t been to the NPM. Before pronouncing sweeping generalizations about “no teashops, buddhist style jewelry,…” in the 'wan, spend a little time on the Compass website. Guess what … it’s based in 台中.

Were you on a witness stand, you wouldn’t even qualify as a lay witness about things Taiwanese, much less an expert. :stuck_out_tongue: :stuck_out_tongue: :stuck_out_tongue:

:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
You simply don’t know where to look for things Chinese, in that case. You obviously haven’t been to the NPM. Before pronouncing sweeping generalizations about “no teashops, buddhist style jewelry,…” in the 'wan, spend a little time on the Compass website. Guess what … it’s based in 台中.

Were you on a witness stand, you wouldn’t even qualify as a lay witness about things Taiwanese, much less an expert. :stuck_out_tongue: :stuck_out_tongue: :p[/quote]

I’m staying with a Taiwanese person who grew up in 台中, I’m merely quoting what she’s told me, and what I’ve seen with my own eyes. I asked her where to get my buddhist style jewerelry repaired, she didn’t know. I asked her where the tea shops are, she didn’t know. I keep asking her to show me traditional Chinese stuff, and complaining that I haven’t seen any yet, she doesn’t know where to take me to see those sorts of things. If she’s not an “expert” then I don’t know who is.

I would also say that I’m staying very close to 逢甲 and I live on another very large night market. I’ve been all over the biggest shopping districts in 台中 looking for 布鞋 and didn’t find any. Yes I’ve been here for only 2 weeks, but I’ve been all over 台中, she’s taken me all around on her scooter looking for the traditional stuff that I like, and we haven’t found any. In China I wouldn’t even need to look for it, you see it just walking on practically any street.

:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
You simply don’t know where to look for things Chinese, in that case. You obviously haven’t been to the NPM. Before pronouncing sweeping generalizations about “no teashops, buddhist style jewelry,…” in the 'wan, spend a little time on the Compass website. Guess what … it’s based in 台中.

Were you on a witness stand, you wouldn’t even qualify as a lay witness about things Taiwanese, much less an expert. :stuck_out_tongue: :stuck_out_tongue: :p[/quote]

I’m staying with a Taiwanese person who grew up in 台中, I’m merely quoting what she’s told me, and what I’ve seen with my own eyes. I asked her where to get my buddhist style jewerelry repaired, she didn’t know. I asked her where the tea shops are, she didn’t know. I keep asking her to show me traditional Chinese stuff, and complaining that I haven’t seen any yet, she doesn’t know where to take me to see those sorts of things. If she’s not an “expert” then I don’t know who is.

I would also say that I’m staying very close to 逢甲 and I live on another very large night market. I’ve been all over the biggest shopping districts in 台中 looking for 布鞋 and didn’t find any. Yes I’ve been here for only 2 weeks, but I’ve been all over 台中, she’s taken me all around on her scooter looking for the traditional stuff that I like, and we haven’t found any. In China I wouldn’t even need to look for it, you see it just walking on practically any street.[/quote]Have you tried the jade market on Wenxin Rd? You should also try the Folk park a few blocks northwest of Beitvn and Wenxin. Nice place. For tea shops, there’s a decent one somewhere on Dadun - Dadun and Gongyi if I remember rightly.

I suggest checking out Lugang for a concentrated dose of traditional culture.

Also, obviously there are loads of Taoist temples everywhere, and associated parades, puppet shows, etc. And TCM is very popular.

:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
You simply don’t know where to look for things Chinese, in that case. You obviously haven’t been to the NPM. Before pronouncing sweeping generalizations about “no teashops, buddhist style jewelry,…” in the 'wan, spend a little time on the Compass website. Guess what … it’s based in 台中.

Were you on a witness stand, you wouldn’t even qualify as a lay witness about things Taiwanese, much less an expert. :stuck_out_tongue: :stuck_out_tongue: :p[/quote]

I’m staying with a Taiwanese person who grew up in 台中, I’m merely quoting what she’s told me, and what I’ve seen with my own eyes. I asked her where to get my buddhist style jewerelry repaired, she didn’t know. I asked her where the tea shops are, she didn’t know. I keep asking her to show me traditional Chinese stuff, and complaining that I haven’t seen any yet, she doesn’t know where to take me to see those sorts of things. If she’s not an “expert” then I don’t know who is.

I would also say that I’m staying very close to 逢甲 and I live on another very large night market. I’ve been all over the biggest shopping districts in 台中 looking for 布鞋 and didn’t find any. Yes I’ve been here for only 2 weeks, but I’ve been all over 台中, she’s taken me all around on her scooter looking for the traditional stuff that I like, and we haven’t found any. In China I wouldn’t even need to look for it, you see it just walking on practically any street.[/quote]

The funny thing is that you actually believe some young Taiwanese girl is an expert on Chinese things :unamused: . Many Taiwanese want western fashion and western goods. The same could be said about your average girl in Shanghai.

It is sort of like the fact that while Taiwanese may be better at speaking Mandarin with the correct accent, I could run laps around them in actually using Chinese proverbs that many young Taiwanese don’t understand.

:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
You simply don’t know where to look for things Chinese, in that case. You obviously haven’t been to the NPM. Before pronouncing sweeping generalizations about “no teashops, buddhist style jewelry,…” in the 'wan, spend a little time on the Compass website. Guess what … it’s based in 台中.

Were you on a witness stand, you wouldn’t even qualify as a lay witness about things Taiwanese, much less an expert. :stuck_out_tongue: :stuck_out_tongue: :p[/quote]

I’m staying with a Taiwanese person who grew up in 台中, I’m merely quoting what she’s told me, and what I’ve seen with my own eyes. I asked her where to get my buddhist style jewerelry repaired, she didn’t know. I asked her where the tea shops are, she didn’t know. I keep asking her to show me traditional Chinese stuff, and complaining that I haven’t seen any yet, she doesn’t know where to take me to see those sorts of things. If she’s not an “expert” then I don’t know who is.[/quote]

Tea shops: Taiwan is still one of the world’s biggest producers of Oolong teas. It has the biggest tea museum in the world. Teas shops are everywhere and Taichung even has (or had) several tea streets (Taichuing is supposedly the origin of bubble tea but that’s probably not “real” to you I guess). I know of at least one classical style tea house though many prefer more modern shops like Cha for Tea. The mountains of southern Taipei are filled with over 100 teashops and even 7-Eleven carries a bewildering variety of cold tea drinks. Almost every household will have a traditional tea set and use it often.

Temples: Taiwan has 15,000 official temples. They are lively centres of worship and every day filled with people doing all manner of traditional things. You DO NOT see this in China. Most Chinese tourists who come here are bewildered and have to be shown how to do somehting so simple as worship a god.

Yes, it is true that you don’t see fake gray walls and arches everywhere, nor red lanterns, nor girls in qipaos because people here aren’t trying to sell a dead culture to unwitting westeners like you. Did you ever wonder how the Great Wall still looks so great? Cause it’s a reproduction. :laughing:

Btw, Taichung has one of the largest Milefo Buddha statues anywhere, as well as two cool old Wenchang Temples where student still go to pray before big exams. It also has a massive Confucius Temple and an small folk village with a great small collection of folk artifacts. But in general Taichung is a cultural deadzone. Just like 99% of most cities in China. :unamused:

Buddhism: Taiwan has one of the highest monastic populations per capita in Asia. The largest Buddhist groups have been influenced by Taixu who promoted a socially active form of Buddhism. As a result, they have become powerful modern organizations running hospitals, charities, publishing companies and even TV stations. You can’t find Buddhism? Turn on your TV.

The massive Chung Tai Chan monastry is an hour or two from Taichung and well worth a visit. Bizarre structure designed by the Taipei 101 architect but inside featuring a fantastic array of traditional designs. The nuns speak English and you can arrange a tour.

Festivals: we just finished Ghost Month which sees huge parades and celebrations. Every year there is the 8 day Matsu pilgrimage around the island which sees several hundred thousand people follow Matsu with several million more participating in local activities. Lantern Festival is massively popular especially the paper lantern release in Pingxi. Dragon Boat Festival. Moon Festival. Tomb Sweeping Day. All big events. In addition, every neighborhood will see at least one large scale parade every year to bless the land or when one of the local gods return to the mother temple (bet you don’t even know what that means or what that’s for).

Taiwan’s Chinese roots are deep but they are not fake. Taiwanese have kept what is relevant to them (religion especially) and discarded the rest. In the process they have developed a unique culture that blends traditional Fujian, Japanese,. western, and aboriginal elements. Your friend is making a political statement by saying she is not Chinese. Like a Canadian saying he is not British.

But she sounds like a very ignorant young person to be perfectly honest.

I was shaking my head in astonishment at Ninman’s remarks, and just waiting for you to come on here and put him right, MM.

Add my voice to that. Astonishing indeed.

Mate, instead of getting into pointless arguments about shoes, why don’t you get yourself outside right now and check out some of the places Mucha Man and I pointed out where you can get your fill of authentic, living culture.

But really, for Taiji, temples, tea, TCM and the like, you don’t have to go anywhere. It’s all around.

You’re right about one thing: it’s not China. That’s because Taiwan is a different country from China.

However, you can find plenty of Chinese culture, especially of the southern coastal variety.

Here you are wrong, oh so wrong. Calligraphy? You can find it hanging on the walls of most mom-and-pop eateries and in people’s houses. Look on your local artist street.

Temples? Taiwan has one of the highest temple-per-person ratios in the world. These range from tiny neighborhood shrines to massive monasteries like Chung Tai Chan Si in Puli.

Buildings? Of the historic kind? You live in Taichung (which is a young city with little history): you live quite close to Lugang. Historic buildings up the wazoo. Go there. Or make a trip to Tainan.

Music? Some days I feel I can’t escape it.

Clothing? Plenty of traditional shops.

You can find the same here. Gotta get up bright and early.

And here, each city has dozens, if not hundreds. And they’re real, living temples with real worshippers, not museums that charge an entry fee.

Go to your local Chinese language bookstore, and you can easily find copies of the Romance of the Three Kingdoms.

(By the way, the use of simplified characters is discouraged on this site, since the site concerns life in Taiwan, where traditional characters are the order of the day.)

As Adam Savage of Mythbusters likes to say, “Well there’s your problem!”

  1. You have been here for two weeks, barely enough time to experience anything.
  2. You are living in Taichung, a city that doesn’t have much history or culture. Probably the least interesting city in all of Taiwan.

And from your other posts, I will add:

  1. Your girlfriend, despite having grown up here, knows very little about what Taiwan has to offer. She’s a terrible tour guide.

Yet tea shops abound in Taiwan. Look harder.

Next time, go the a major Buddhist temple, and search the shops around it.

Or better yet, move out of the cultural drain that is Taichung. Anywhere else is better (except maybe Mailiao Township).

Wow wow wow, this is a REALLY interesting thread.

OP:
Listen to the people here (inbetween everyone dealing with this ninman person), they know what theyre talking about. There might not be any perks to working at a university here, the system is very different. However, Taiwan is an excellent place to go if you are…inbetween solid arrangements persay. Many people come here and make their lives here, some people come here for only a little while. I personally feel that Taiwan is an incredibly wonderful place to maybe spend a couple years (at least) if you have the time. Living here is easy in many, many ways, you can make enough money to live…maybe not be some rockstar, but you can live here, eat, all that for relatively inexpensively. Its not free, its not AMAZINGLY cheap, but its doable. I dont know about your home country, but things like health insurance and even food costs back in my home country are so cost prohibitive that spending a year inbetween jobs/degrees would be downright miserable. Here, I’m learning something, were making enough to make it, and we’re able to experience something that we would never have been able to otherwise.

The culture here is rich, the people are pretty neat (its not a magical wonderland or anything, shit happens) but, its a good place. If youre interested and youre unemployed, I would seriously consider…what do you want out of the next year or so? If you want to get into a faculty position or something somewhere and make good money and do great, maybe Taiwan isnt it for you, you have to figure that out. But if you want to come over, maybe work at a university and chill out, or say you wanna just teach English (the popular choice, though definitely if you went that route, I’d learn from the people here, its not that simple) you can give yourself some time to DO something.

Honestly, I might only be here for a year or so, but when I go back, I’ll have a little saved up, if not that, we will have at least broke even. If you can make a decision for you and get into a situation where you can go out and do something that interests you very much with very little overhead, hey, I would look into it.

This may or may not be the same for everyone here or you, I am just telling you what my experience has been, but my way is one way to look at it you could say! Everyone else here has WAY MORE Taiwan experience, so I am no person to really talk to about that, but hey, I made the decision to come here, and this is how we’re doing it. From one newb to the other, its not a bad gig here :slight_smile: You just gotta decide, do you wanna pursue career, or kinda pursue career and do something neat/random, or just say, hey, f*** it, I’m gonna go do something different for a while!

[quote=“ninman”][quote=“Mucha Man”][quote=“ninman”]It’s important to remember, this is Taiwan, not China, and Taiwanese culture really is completely different from Chinese culture in so many ways. For example, nobody spits in the street in Taiwan, people are much friendlier and much more polite than Chinese people. The streets are cleaner, and it’s just a nicer environment to be in. Remember what my friend tells me every day “we look like Chinese people, but we are not Chinese”. While it’s really very hard to find any stores that sell anything Chinese, (trust me, I looked, and I had a local from 台中 helping me), I wouldn’t recommend you go to China at all. China has far bigger problems than Taiwan.

The night markets here are great, if not a little crazy, and the food is so much better than in China. If you want to eat in China you really have to lower your standards of personal hygiene considerably. Here the stalls are relatively clean, and it’s still not altogether expensive. As I’ve said, if you walk down any street in China you will find tea shops, chopstick shops, buddhist style jewellery, and loads of stuff that is “Chinese”, here you just don’t, and I’ve looked, really, really hard. There isn’t a place like 豫园 in 台中, at least not that I’m aware of. Yes I know exactly what I’m talking about, despite what some 笨蛋 here will tell you.[/quote]

No you don’t know what you are taking about. You’re an ignorant newbie who’s been exploring for a whole two weeks one of the culturally dead cities in Taiwan and is now trying to argue with people who have loads of experience both in Taiwan and China what it’s all really about. :laughing:

And will you stop writing in characters. Some of us can read but many cannot and it is grossly rude to use script on a foreign chat site.[/quote]

Thanks for backing me up. Yes I know exactly what I’m talking about, 笨蛋。[/quote]

Oh man, arent you the witty one. I wouldnt mess with MuchaMan, seriously. This guy knows his shit. And dissing someone in Chinese? Come on.

Taiwan’s culture is incredibly rich. Do you expect every single town in Taiwan to be dripping with culture? Lol, if you experienced culture in every city in China, then youre freakin’ out of your mind you havent been there, stop lying to us. Not every city in every country is a bastion of culture. Surely you know this, surely you are aware of this. Yeah sure, you may feel that MM “backed you up” by saying “youre right”…well, good for you, you live in a culturally dead city. Where we are finding you at fault is you actually telling someone to not come here because “There is no Chinese culture”. I walk down the street every day and I pass by tea shops, calligraphy supply shops, art shops selling scrolls, jade shops, little neighborhood temples, restaurants, yes, there are a bunch of people practicing taiji down the street from me every day. I’m sorry you live in a crappy area, but hey, you have to travel to see stuff. What do you think, ALL of Taiwan is fuckin’ disneyland? This is a country, people have to live here, work here…I dont get what you are expecting. You have been here two weeks, your friend is telling you shes not Chinese…wow, I am not surprised. DUH, shes NOT Chinese. You would have to spend some time learning and living here to understand that. Its such a complex topic, you have absolutely no idea what youre talking about. Even the words Chinese, Taiwanese, ROC, Mainland…all of that is a whole shitstorm of stuff that no foreigner can understand after two weeks here. I am at least smart enough to have some idea, but moreso, know that I really have to spend some time with this country to ever really understand the dynamic of “what is Chinese” and “Taiwan” and “PRC”. Thats not just something someone, even a native, tells you in a simple sentence. Its called “culture goggles”. Thats only a fraction of it.

Ninman- Taichung has TONNES of teashops, some of the most beautiful in all of Taiwan. Taichungers love going to drink tea. Taiwan is famous for it’s oolong teas as MM said already. There are also 1000s of tea stands selling fresh tea and juice mixes…you won’t find this anywhere else. Go to the 7-11s and see how many tea drinks there are. I believe Taiwan has the strongest tea drinking culture of anywhere in the world as people from young and old all enjoy tea, most of which is actually grown here in Taiwan.

You made a mistake of thinking that Taiwanese have a broad general knowledge, most don’t beyond their own sphere of interest.

If you live here long enough you will see there is a deep Chinese/Taiwanese superstitious culture, much more so than China. They venerate the Gods walking through your neighbourhood with cacophonous parades and local temples face off each other with their attached hoodlum bands. You will them celebrate dragon boat, mid-autumn and tombsweeping days, much more so than China which only started promoting them again about 10 years ago. There is also a large hakka community who also have their own culture which is still strong in rural areas. You will see Matsu parades going up and down the island…don’t stand in their way!
You cannot go anywhere in Taiwan without coming across temples (too many I would say!). Taichung is one of the newer cities in Taiwan and the temples and historic sites are not as numerous here.
Taiwan also has a large influence from Japan which is very interesting in it’s own right, although they still maintained Chinese culture at the root.
The cultural aspects of Taiwan may not be so obvious as there is not a developed tourist industry to show foreigners this. Instead the tourist industry is aimed towards Taiwanese, Asians and Chinese, and many sites such as hot springs are located in rural or mountainous areas, if you don’t drive or get a bus to them you won’t see them. 2 weeks is really too short to make a judgement on any place.

As for coming to Taiwan to teach in university…waste of time in my book.

I like her! :thumbsup:

I’ve found locals aka who grew up here, to be very poor guides. More often than not, long term foreigners have been much better at pointing the way… :2cents:

Leave Tainan out of it. Nothing to see here! Nothing at all!!