For the Lifers out there: LIFE-AFTER-TEACHING (LAT)

I earn more than $100,000pm @ $800+ per hour excluding huge bonuses. My Taiwanese wife contributes $20,000 pm to family expenses, bringing our household income to over $120,000 pm. We have a kid, a few dogs, one car (with comp. insurance), no domestic help (at all), life insurance / private health insurance, no apartment of our own (renters), school fees, and a ton of misc. expenses. We haven’t been on a vacation outside of Taiwan in 3 years and I haven’t been back home in more than 5. We’re not scraping by, but we don’t live in the lap of luxury, either. I’m almost 40 and I’ve been teaching more than 10 years, and the thought of teaching another 10 scares the shit out of me.

To save myself from early death (=10 more years of teaching children), I’ve been saving and investing like a maniac. The point I’m trying to make is that as a foreigner in Taiwan with no local family to support you or help you out, you better have a plan B. Teaching in Taiwan until you’re 60 isn’t a plan. Spending all your money every month isn’t a plan. Traveling all over Asia and the world spending your money isn’t a plan, either. For those of us who are lifers nearing our 40s, if we don’t have a plan B (or a rich family at home), we’re fucked.

I read about 50 or 60-year old people becoming completely destitute when they lose their jobs or get divorced or through personal injury and it keeps me up at night. I have a “good” job, reasonably stable marriage (YEAH RIGHT!), and private health insurance to cover my expenses if I can’t work for an extended period of time, BUT I’M IN CONSTANT FEAR OF NOT HAVING ENOUGH MONEY WHEN MY LUCK TURNS. My household expenses are running at TWD85,000 per month, which is more than most salaries in Taiwan, but preparing for LAT (LIFE-AFTER-TEACHING) is my main focus in life. I have another 5-7 years of teaching in me before I suffer a massive fucking coronary event. I kinda feel like my life is just passing me by at this point and that all the worrying is just making the reality worse.

But this is the life I chose. In 5-10 years, hopefully, my investments pay off and my worries stop. Then finally, I’ll be able to live again. A SAD, BUT TRUE TALE OF LIFE, WORK, MONEY, AND HOPE.

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At 40, you are still young enough to change things up. When I was in my early 30’s and my husband was about your age, we furthered our education and moved on to jobs in the Middle East that upped our savings by a ton. Even though we spent a year as full-time students and lost income on top of that, within two years we had made all of that money back in savings and then some. It was totally worth it, and now we will be able to retire very young if we wish.

Don’t just let yourself get stressed out…you can always start taking steps toward furthering your education and skills to make your Plans B, C, D, E, etc a reality.

I share you fears, regrettably I am 46 and only started worrying about this a few months ago.

15 years in Taiwan, less than 1 million NT saved, instead going on 3 to 4 holidays/dive trips per year.
I sometimes joked about living in a box on the street when I’m 60, I now realize that this may become reality.

The fact that men in my family have a history of dying before 65 no longer seems a good enough excuse for my travel extravagance.

Right now I am buying gold coins from the BoT, and hope that if I continue doing that, as well as make some mutual funds investments, I might scrape enough together to buy food (to eat in my box).

[quote=“RockOn”]I earn more than $100,000pm @ $800+ per hour excluding huge bonuses. My Taiwanese wife contributes $20,000 pm to family expenses, bringing our household income to over $120,000 pm. We have a kid, a few dogs, one car (with comp. insurance), no domestic help (at all), life insurance / private health insurance, no apartment of our own (renters), school fees, and a ton of misc. expenses. We haven’t been on a vacation outside of Taiwan in 3 years and I haven’t been back home in more than 5. We’re not scraping by, but we don’t live in the lap of luxury, either. I’m almost 40 and I’ve been teaching more than 10 years, and the thought of teaching another 10 scares the shit out of me.

To save myself from early death (=10 more years of teaching children), I’ve been saving and investing like a maniac. The point I’m trying to make is that as a foreigner in Taiwan with no local family to support you or help you out, you better have a plan B. Teaching in Taiwan until you’re 60 isn’t a plan. Spending all your money every month isn’t a plan. Traveling all over Asia and the world spending your money isn’t a plan, either. For those of us who are lifers nearing our 40s, if we don’t have a plan B (or a rich family at home), we’re fucked.

I read about 50 or 60-year old people becoming completely destitute when they lose their jobs or get divorced or through personal injury and it keeps me up at night. I have a “good” job, reasonably stable marriage (YEAH RIGHT!), and private health insurance to cover my expenses if I can’t work for an extended period of time, BUT I’m IN CONSTANT FEAR OF NOT HAVING ENOUGH MONEY WHEN MY LUCK TURNS. My household expenses are running at TWD85,000 per month, which is more than most salaries in Taiwan, but preparing for LAT (LIFE-AFTER-TEACHING) is my main focus in life. I have another 5-7 years of teaching in me before I suffer a massive fucking coronary event. I kinda feel like my life is just passing me by at this point and that all the worrying is just making the reality worse.

But this is the life I chose. In 5-10 years, hopefully, my investments pay off and my worries stop. Then finally, I’ll be able to live again. A SAD, BUT TRUE TALE OF LIFE, WORK, MONEY, AND HOPE.[/quote]

Good thing about Canada is you can go back and if you have nothing you can still apply for social assistance so you will not have to eat and sleep in a box. I assume the UK and various European countries are the same

Long, long time ago, when I was considerably older and poorer than you (still am, not-so-funnily-enough) I’m in’t staff room when the boss comes in.

“I have good news” ses she. (Oh yeh? Thinks I)

“Oh yes?” ses I

“I can give you extra hours” ses she.

“I don’t really want extra hours, Dr Boss” ses I “Can’t someone else do them?”

“But its more money” ses she

(“But it’s more teaching, and I fucking hate teaching” thinks I)

“I don’t really need more money”, ses I “I don’t spend very much” (This is still true, but now my Taiwanese GF spends rather a lot.)

“But you have to think of the future” ses she “What do you plan to do in your old age?”

“I plan to die in my old age.” ses I

“You can’t rely on that” ses she

I think she’s wrong.

[quote=“Indiana”]At 40, you are still young enough to change things up. When I was in my early 30’s and my husband was about your age, we furthered our education and moved on to jobs in the Middle East that upped our savings by a ton. Even though we spent a year as full-time students and lost income on top of that, within two years we had made all of that money back in savings and then some. It was totally worth it, and now we will be able to retire very young if we wish.

Don’t just let yourself get stressed out…you can always start taking steps toward furthering your education and skills to make your Plans B, C, D, E, etc a reality.[/quote]

I"m glad that worked out for you guys. Unfortunately, with my wife being Taiwanese and having a little kid, moving to a new and different country is not a realistic option. But thanks for sharing.

Yeah, Canada is good with that. However, that might be changing soon as well. So no offense, but planning on living off social security with a family is not a real plan.

Yeah, Canada is good with that. However, that might be changing soon as well. So no offense, but planning on living off social security with a family is not a real plan.[/quote]

With a family it’s a bad idea, but at least you know you wouldn’t be in a box sleeping on the street. I was not suggesting it as a life course but more as a security net option. And I doubt social benefits will ever “run out”, perhaps cut.

I myself am planning to get out of Taiwan at some point soon to go do something more interesting since Taiwan seems to think that foreigners are only good as engrish teechers. It is almost impossible to get a job that pays well at a large firm here. I have many years experience in the insurance industry back home but when I went to insurance companies in Taipei on two different occasions, I was literally laughed at by managers for even the thought of applying for a job here. Foreigners? No way they say. And English teaching being an ageist job, we cant do it forever.

40 is not young anymore. Time’s running out. You can’t maintain 100+k teaching. It’s monotonous, painful, exhausting pushing those hours teaching, and hard to maintain that schedule consistently over the years. Go into corporate work if you can. I’ve seen many, including myself make the jump. You’ll have to think out of the box and get creative and aggressive but nothing is impossible. Depends on many factors of course.

I know 5 or 6 guys in last several years who were teaching English originally but climbed their way out of it, and used Taiwan as stepping stone to excellent China, Indonesia and Singapore jobs. Luck is a big factor, as is your ability to network and sell yourself (you’d be surprised how many people make it without any of the requisite job experience, but rather because boss needs someone they can trust). Having a family to take care of too of course is major factor to consider in every decision.

[quote=“BlownWideOpen”]40 is not young anymore. Time’s running out. You can’t maintain 100+k teaching. It’s monotonous, painful, exhausting pushing those hours teaching, and hard to maintain that schedule consistently over the years. Go into corporate work if you can. I’ve seen many, including myself make the jump. You’ll have to think out of the box and get creative and aggressive but nothing is impossible. Depends on many factors of course.

I know 5 or 6 guys in last several years who were teaching English originally but climbed their way out of it, and used Taiwan as stepping stone to excellent China, Indonesia and Singapore jobs. Luck is a big factor, as is your ability to network and sell yourself (you’d be surprised how many people make it without any of the requisite job experience, but rather because boss needs someone they can trust). Having a family to take care of too of course is major factor to consider in every decision.[/quote]

I definitely won’t be able to maintain long teaching hours in 5 years or so. For the moment, it’s still all good, but I do need a few mega-cups of coffee to keep me going through the day. When you talk about “corporate work,” what exactly do you mean by that? Are you talking about marketing? In-house English coach? In terms of moving abroad, I’m stuck. With my wife and little kid (starting elementary school next year, 5 now), it’s Taiwan or Taiwan or Taiwan.

Why is it Taiwan or Taiwan or Taiwan though? If you think like that, then that’s your future. Make your bed and lie in it. :thumbsup:

With our boy going to elementary school next year, moving to a different country becomes a whole lot trickier. Lets say, for example, I get a job in Singapore in two years. My son will be Grade 2 then, so he needs to move - not just to a new school, but a new country with a different curriculum. Then, lets say, in another 2 years we return to Taiwan when he’s Grade 4, but the Singapore curriculum doesn’t match up with Taiwan’s. Then my kid has to redo at least one grade in Taiwan, be the odd kid out in his peer group, all because I wanted to move abroad for a little while. You might think it sounds overly complicated, but it happened to close friends of ours and the poor kids had an incredibly tough time dealing with it. As a parent, I’ll feel terribly guilty and I’ll feel like I let my kid down in the worst possible way (by not considering his situation).

So yeah, with that in mind, I guess it’s Taiwan and Taiwan only. No going abroad with a little kid in school. Providing a stable life for my son is a top priority. That means my options for Life-After-Teaching is more limited than others. The one thing my wife has talked about is starting her own company, importing and selling home deco. Guess I’ll invest in her venture and hopefully it’s a success.

[quote=“RockOn”]I earn more than $100,000pm @ $800+ per hour excluding huge bonuses. My Taiwanese wife contributes $20,000 pm to family expenses, bringing our household income to over $120,000 pm. We have a kid, a few dogs, one car (with comp. insurance), no domestic help (at all), life insurance / private health insurance, no apartment of our own (renters), school fees, and a ton of misc. expenses. We haven’t been on a vacation outside of Taiwan in 3 years and I haven’t been back home in more than 5. We’re not scraping by, but we don’t live in the lap of luxury, either. I’m almost 40 and I’ve been teaching more than 10 years, and the thought of teaching another 10 scares the shit out of me.

To save myself from early death (=10 more years of teaching children), I’ve been saving and investing like a maniac. The point I’m trying to make is that as a foreigner in Taiwan with no local family to support you or help you out, you better have a plan B. Teaching in Taiwan until you’re 60 isn’t a plan. Spending all your money every month isn’t a plan. Traveling all over Asia and the world spending your money isn’t a plan, either. For those of us who are lifers nearing our 40s, if we don’t have a plan B (or a rich family at home), we’re fucked.

I read about 50 or 60-year old people becoming completely destitute when they lose their jobs or get divorced or through personal injury and it keeps me up at night. I have a “good” job, reasonably stable marriage (YEAH RIGHT!), and private health insurance to cover my expenses if I can’t work for an extended period of time, BUT I’m IN CONSTANT FEAR OF NOT HAVING ENOUGH MONEY WHEN MY LUCK TURNS. My household expenses are running at TWD85,000 per month, which is more than most salaries in Taiwan, but preparing for LAT (LIFE-AFTER-TEACHING) is my main focus in life. I have another 5-7 years of teaching in me before I suffer a massive fucking coronary event. I kinda feel like my life is just passing me by at this point and that all the worrying is just making the reality worse.

But this is the life I chose. In 5-10 years, hopefully, my investments pay off and my worries stop. Then finally, I’ll be able to live again. A SAD, BUT TRUE TALE OF LIFE, WORK, MONEY, AND HOPE.[/quote]

Okay, so since you’ve posted on here about your situation you should be open to advice. Therefore, what I am about to say may not initially sit well with you, but don’t take any of it personally. You really are going to have to think about this kind of stuff and it really is a serious matter and tough decisions will have to be made.

Before I start I want to say that I have been in Taiwan for 3 years now and I am looking at being a lifer myself but I have put some really serious thought into everything during the last two years especially into how to make that all happen.

Let’s begin where everything started with me here in Taiwan. I was promised a private school job that fell through when I arrived in July 2012. I came with far too little money to get started here and spent two weeks finding a job. I got a whack-ass kindy job way out in New Taipei City and was living in the (in)famous Taipei Hostel around Shandao Temple Station. I was fired from the kindy in less than two months and found myself looking for a job again for a period of five weeks. I was in and out of the hostel and was lucky enough to find a couple of one month short term inexpensive leases, but mostly lived in that hostel in the dormitory.

Now when I was living there, there were 3 people that really stand out to me as people who had completely fucked up in life. They were some of these people that you kind of describe, 50-60 years old and completely destitute. There was one guy who was over 60 who had been living in Taiwan for a while as some type of contractor so he said, telling me how he had been making over $100,000 USD year at certain points in his career but had to leave Taichung for one reason or another and ended up in Taipei Hostel with nothing to show for himself over all that time. In fact, he had mismanaged his money so much that he needed to get a repatriation loan from AIT just to get his ass on a plane back to the US. That’s right, he couldn’t even afford a one way ticket home. It was quite mind boggling to me that this guy said he was making so much money, I think as some type of engeineer, and had nothing, NOTHING, to show for it when he was 60 +. Part of me doubts that he ever did make that much but it was clear that he was not good at managing his money and no job he ever had provided a pension or any type of retirement and he clearly had not planned or saved for the eventuality of retirement.

Another guy that was there around the same time was about 50 years old and also completely flat broke. He was looking for English teaching work at cram schools at his age in Taiwan. It was really pathetic honestly. He couldn’t get hired anywhere. He said he had no money, but was living in a private room and getting drunk nearly every night. He had come over from mainland China I believe, because he got fired from his job there. I guess in the end he went back there because it was much easier to find work there than Taiwan at his age, although he said he had taught in Taiwan about a decade prior and had found the landscape for teachers had changed considerably during that time period. Before he departed he said something along the lines of a friend had wired him a few hundred bucks for his visa and plane ticket back to mainland China.

Another woman, over 40, also completely destitute had been fired from a cram school and was flat broke on her ass, also getting drunk every night on mijyo. She couldn’t find work probably due to her age and her apperance. She was missing several teeth and just looked like hell, like she had been doing crystal meth or something, honestly. She ended up out on her ass when she didn’t have enough money to even pay for a bunk in a dormitory and probably had to get money sent to her from her father if she ever wanted to get out of Taiwan and not become a homeless street person. I’m guessing she probably made her way back to the States with family or went on to mainland China for work.

These three people had set a very cautionary tale for me about how not to live my life in Taiwan. There was no way I wanted to be 40, 50, 60 years old and staying in a hostel because there was nowhere else for me to go. Being there at age 26 was bad enough. I couldn’t even imagine being twice as old and being in that situation, really, it would make me feel like a complete failure. It was very similar to me what my parents were like, in their 60s now and completely broke, still in debt. A lot of it might be generational, seriously, I think a lot of Baby Boomers are quite horrible at handling their money.

Anyway, I am not comparing these people to your situation. You are obviously much better off. I just use them as examples that I feel I was lucky to be exposed to of what not to do in life. It made me realize very early on that if I were to succeed in Taiwan, or anywhere abroad, or perhaps anywhere anywhere, that I needed to have a plan for the future, lest I end up like the aforementioned people.

I got a job at another school after a five week search and also had a few other lucky breaks as well, including getting some random substitute and guest speaker work and even getting to stay in a house rent free for about a month. I was seriously considering flying back to the US with my tail between my legs for a while but everything worked out so wonderfully in my favor somehow.

After a year of drudgery at my job, I had signed up for another year mostly because I hadn’t made any other plans and wanted to get more out of my Taiwan experience, since the first 5 months were so turbulent. I didn’t get my own apartment until five months after arriving and also had to neglect payment of bills for about six months and had to pay those all back just to catch up. I needed more time to be stable financially and to enjoy the fruits of my long struggle just to get a foothold in Taiwan.

The new school year started off very busy, but after that, there was a huge lull in my schedule. I was required to be at work from 8am-5pm every day, even though they had not created a schedule of classes for me. I was still getting paid the same, salaried position, but had nothing to do. I sat there every day for over two months thinking about what I should do with my life. This was also a blessing, since I had nothing to do but think and had a computer with internet access right in front of me (and still getting paid for doing fuck-all). I sat there and just thought all day, every day, about what I wanted to do with my life. I decided I wanted to teach but not like how I was at the time. I decided to go for a teaching certificate or degree. After doing some reserach and reading about The College of New Jersey Offsite Graduate Program here on Forumosa, I decided to go for that. It isn’t cheap, but it was an investment in myself. I am currently doing this program now and will finish in about a year. I started in October of last year. It’s one program that I can highly recommend. Many people in your type of situation are doing it to improve their lives here and to give themselves more options. Of course, one has to wisely save and invest their money. Even many people working at high paying international school jobs seem to spend their money foolishly on lavish vacations, expensive apartments, and going out all the time. We are on our own out here for the most part, so we need to save and invest wisely while living somewhat modestly.

This is but one possibility however. This post isn’t just for you, but for anyone that comes to Taiwan and wonders what to do. Let’s be honest, playing sticky-ball isn’t really a career or something you can do forever. Now, on the particulars of your situation. This is what I can suggest based on what I’ve read.

You are making a pretty good income but you are probalby working a lot of teaching hours, I guess over 30 per week of just teaching, not including any prep time or anything else. That is a huge load of classes. It is no wonder that you won’t be able to keep this up for much longer.

It sounds like your wife makes around minimum wage. Is she working full or part time? If she is working part time, can she pick up more hours at work? Is she hourly or salaried? I certainly hope she isn’t salaried. I know how evil Taiwanese bosses can be, making employees work overtime for no extra pay at a shit wage. If your wife is working full time, is there anything she can do to improve her career prospects and make more money? Any training she can do, any other jobs she can get?

In terms of expenses, when your car breaks down, do you really need a new one? Can you move to a place with cheaper rent? You say you have a few dogs, when they eventually pass away, will you replace them? I know these can be some tough things to think about but if you want to get ahead, you’re probably going to have to make some tough decisions. What are you investing in now?

I think you said you spend about 85K per month, so that’s a savings rate of about 35,000 NT per month, actually doesn’t sound bad at all. But you need to save and invest aggressively. Can you invest in yourself to upgrade your skills and credentials? Having a teaching degree could really do that for you. As stated, going to the Middle East could net you some real money. You said you don’t have any relatives here to support you, so why are you so attached to Taiwan then? A lot of these companies or programs will pay for your family members to come with you. Or you could go yourself and send the money back to Taiwan. Yeah, it would suck to be away, but if you really need to get ahead, you’re going to need to make tough decisions. At the very least, you should be able to get a well paying job that isn’t as stressful as teaching so many classes as you seem to be teaching now. It will give you more options.

Anyway, just some suggestions for you, take em or leave em, you were the one solisiting for advise here, so this is just my :2cents: Also something for anyone living here without any real plan to consider.

Ah! Then you could be living the teaching dream like Ermintrude. :cactus:

What does the cactus mean?

OP, step away from the Wishful Thinking. Tell him to put his hands on his head and get back in the cell with Broke Ass and Been There, Done That!

Seriously, the idea about your wife importing and selling stuff as your financial get out clause is NOT good enough. I know, I’ve been there. I could be the third man in that cell. :doh: .

First you need to focus on getting your shit together, a solid career base to fall back on in Taiwan or overseas for the next 20 years. The teaching qualification idea is good above, if a bit melodramatic in presentation (it came to me after many months deep thought lol), it’s a good solid plan for you. Get those qualifications and you can work in a better school
In taiwan and won’t be worked to death and can work up to when you really qualify as old. Not only that, you can leave the trap of Taiwan and explore your and your family’s life overseas. Lots of those schools can help with teachers kids placements. With our kids, we are focusing in getting the basics down with them, reading English , Maths, Chinese. Its all transferable. We don’t send the kids to kindergartens here which are glorified childcare institutions of dubious quality, with very limited hands on time with each kid.

In my case, I work in a certain industry in a corporate role. I can move to other Asian cities, but Taipei is really one of the best options especially compared to mainland China. My kids are learning Chinese which is great. Its their English ability I worry about. Moving overseas and then trying to re-enter the Taiwanese elementary system, maybe not easy because of Chinese, but still possible (easier coming back from China I guess). The thing is, Taiwans education and childhood environment is not good. Any country where kids are forced to study during summer vacation period, which is short already, there’s something seriously wrong. So if you lose out on some factors, they will probably gain in others. But if you got that much higher pay overseas and live better, why not? It’s an option, don’t close off your options. This is a tiny island, and there is a big world out there.
Let me repeat. This is a tiny island, there is a big world out there. For employees of a certain grade or industry or age, this is not a place that will help you grow, financially, mentally, professionally. If that’s the case, one needs to be able to say ‘Screw you Taiwan’ and earn your living elsewhere. I’m fully cognizant that could happen to me, and if and when the day comes, I hope to say it in a nicer way ‘Sayonara Taiwan, thanks for all the dofu’.

Taiwan is tough for everybody, but women especially don’t tend to earn a lot, Taiwanese will take advantage of any situation to pay people less, that includes women returning to work after looking after kids and students and foreign Labourers. My wife sometimes expresses interest in living and working overseas because she knows she can earn much more there. She can easily earn 1-2 million ntd a year overseas with low income tax, but here in Taiwan they will kill her with work and overtime for 40k/mth and paying tax and health insurance and laobao almost from the first dollar. So for spouses
It often makes MORE sense for them to go overseas!

I believe the cactus icon indicates sarcasm.

[quote=“gavmasterflash”]
Okay, so since you’ve posted on here about your situation you should be open to advice. Therefore, what I am about to say may not initially sit well with you, but don’t take any of it personally. You really are going to have to think about this kind of stuff and it really is a serious matter and tough decisions will have to be made.

Before I start I want to say that I have been in Taiwan for 3 years now and I am looking at being a lifer myself but I have put some really serious thought into everything during the last two years especially into how to make that all happen.

Let’s begin where everything started with me here in Taiwan. I was promised a private school job that fell through when I arrived in July 2012. I came with far too little money to get started here and spent two weeks finding a job. I got a whack-ass kindy job way out in New Taipei City and was living in the (in)famous Taipei Hostel around Shandao Temple Station. I was fired from the kindy in less than two months and found myself looking for a job again for a period of five weeks. I was in and out of the hostel and was lucky enough to find a couple of one month short term inexpensive leases, but mostly lived in that hostel in the dormitory.

Now when I was living there, there were 3 people that really stand out to me as people who had completely fucked up in life. They were some of these people that you kind of describe, 50-60 years old and completely destitute. There was one guy who was over 60 who had been living in Taiwan for a while as some type of contractor so he said, telling me how he had been making over $100,000 USD year at certain points in his career but had to leave Taichung for one reason or another and ended up in Taipei Hostel with nothing to show for himself over all that time. In fact, he had mismanaged his money so much that he needed to get a repatriation loan from AIT just to get his ass on a plane back to the US. That’s right, he couldn’t even afford a one way ticket home. It was quite mind boggling to me that this guy said he was making so much money, I think as some type of engeineer, and had nothing, NOTHING, to show for it when he was 60 +. Part of me doubts that he ever did make that much but it was clear that he was not good at managing his money and no job he ever had provided a pension or any type of retirement and he clearly had not planned or saved for the eventuality of retirement.

Another guy that was there around the same time was about 50 years old and also completely flat broke. He was looking for English teaching work at cram schools at his age in Taiwan. It was really pathetic honestly. He couldn’t get hired anywhere. He said he had no money, but was living in a private room and getting drunk nearly every night. He had come over from mainland China I believe, because he got fired from his job there. I guess in the end he went back there because it was much easier to find work there than Taiwan at his age, although he said he had taught in Taiwan about a decade prior and had found the landscape for teachers had changed considerably during that time period. Before he departed he said something along the lines of a friend had wired him a few hundred bucks for his visa and plane ticket back to mainland China.

Another woman, over 40, also completely destitute had been fired from a cram school and was flat broke on her ass, also getting drunk every night on mijyo. She couldn’t find work probably due to her age and her apperance. She was missing several teeth and just looked like hell, like she had been doing crystal meth or something, honestly. She ended up out on her ass when she didn’t have enough money to even pay for a bunk in a dormitory and probably had to get money sent to her from her father if she ever wanted to get out of Taiwan and not become a homeless street person. I’m guessing she probably made her way back to the States with family or went on to mainland China for work.

These three people had set a very cautionary tale for me about how not to live my life in Taiwan. There was no way I wanted to be 40, 50, 60 years old and staying in a hostel because there was nowhere else for me to go. Being there at age 26 was bad enough. I couldn’t even imagine being twice as old and being in that situation, really, it would make me feel like a complete failure. It was very similar to me what my parents were like, in their 60s now and completely broke, still in debt. A lot of it might be generational, seriously, I think a lot of Baby Boomers are quite horrible at handling their money.

Anyway, I am not comparing these people to your situation. You are obviously much better off. I just use them as examples that I feel I was lucky to be exposed to of what not to do in life. It made me realize very early on that if I were to succeed in Taiwan, or anywhere abroad, or perhaps anywhere anywhere, that I needed to have a plan for the future, lest I end up like the aforementioned people.

I got a job at another school after a five week search and also had a few other lucky breaks as well, including getting some random substitute and guest speaker work and even getting to stay in a house rent free for about a month. I was seriously considering flying back to the US with my tail between my legs for a while but everything worked out so wonderfully in my favor somehow.

After a year of drudgery at my job, I had signed up for another year mostly because I hadn’t made any other plans and wanted to get more out of my Taiwan experience, since the first 5 months were so turbulent. I didn’t get my own apartment until five months after arriving and also had to neglect payment of bills for about six months and had to pay those all back just to catch up. I needed more time to be stable financially and to enjoy the fruits of my long struggle just to get a foothold in Taiwan.

The new school year started off very busy, but after that, there was a huge lull in my schedule. I was required to be at work from 8am-5pm every day, even though they had not created a schedule of classes for me. I was still getting paid the same, salaried position, but had nothing to do. I sat there every day for over two months thinking about what I should do with my life. This was also a blessing, since I had nothing to do but think and had a computer with internet access right in front of me (and still getting paid for doing fuck-all). I sat there and just thought all day, every day, about what I wanted to do with my life. I decided I wanted to teach but not like how I was at the time. I decided to go for a teaching certificate or degree. After doing some reserach and reading about The College of New Jersey Offsite Graduate Program here on Forumosa, I decided to go for that. It isn’t cheap, but it was an investment in myself. I am currently doing this program now and will finish in about a year. I started in October of last year. It’s one program that I can highly recommend. Many people in your type of situation are doing it to improve their lives here and to give themselves more options. Of course, one has to wisely save and invest their money. Even many people working at high paying international school jobs seem to spend their money foolishly on lavish vacations, expensive apartments, and going out all the time. We are on our own out here for the most part, so we need to save and invest wisely while living somewhat modestly.

This is but one possibility however. This post isn’t just for you, but for anyone that comes to Taiwan and wonders what to do. Let’s be honest, playing sticky-ball isn’t really a career or something you can do forever. Now, on the particulars of your situation. This is what I can suggest based on what I’ve read.

You are making a pretty good income but you are probalby working a lot of teaching hours, I guess over 30 per week of just teaching, not including any prep time or anything else. That is a huge load of classes. It is no wonder that you won’t be able to keep this up for much longer.

It sounds like your wife makes around minimum wage. Is she working full or part time? If she is working part time, can she pick up more hours at work? Is she hourly or salaried? I certainly hope she isn’t salaried. I know how evil Taiwanese bosses can be, making employees work overtime for no extra pay at a shit wage. If your wife is working full time, is there anything she can do to improve her career prospects and make more money? Any training she can do, any other jobs she can get?

In terms of expenses, when your car breaks down, do you really need a new one? Can you move to a place with cheaper rent? You say you have a few dogs, when they eventually pass away, will you replace them? I know these can be some tough things to think about but if you want to get ahead, you’re probably going to have to make some tough decisions. What are you investing in now?

I think you said you spend about 85K per month, so that’s a savings rate of about 35,000 NT per month, actually doesn’t sound bad at all. But you need to save and invest aggressively. Can you invest in yourself to upgrade your skills and credentials? Having a teaching degree could really do that for you. As stated, going to the Middle East could net you some real money. You said you don’t have any relatives here to support you, so why are you so attached to Taiwan then? A lot of these companies or programs will pay for your family members to come with you. Or you could go yourself and send the money back to Taiwan. Yeah, it would suck to be away, but if you really need to get ahead, you’re going to need to make tough decisions. At the very least, you should be able to get a well paying job that isn’t as stressful as teaching so many classes as you seem to be teaching now. It will give you more options.

Anyway, just some suggestions for you, take em or leave em, you were the one solisiting for advise here, so this is just my :2cents: Also something for anyone living here without any real plan to consider.[/quote]

Thanks for your input and advice. Your stories about those unfortunate individuals is enough to scare any lifer straight. So yeah, thanks for sharing that. You sound as if you’re in year late-twenties or early thirties now with a more stable financial situation and an education degree (soon), which by the way I’ll definitely check out.

One thing we have in common is that my parents, like yours, have made some horrendous financial decisions in their lives. And I certainly see a time in the very near future when my “assistance” will be needed to cover basic necessities for them. I don’t mean to be crass, but that’s going to seriously fuck with my financial planning for my own family. But I’ll do my best to support them as much as I can without jeopardizing my own family’s financial future.

To answer a few of your questions: My wife is Taiwanese and contributes $20,000 to home expenses each month; that said, she earns close to a $100,000 from her current services-orientated consulting business. The problem is getting her to up her contribution since she has more of a YOLO outlook in life and she thinks I’m a buzzkill with my investment/savings mindset. On the other hand, she’s “saving” for her future business, I mentioned above.

In terms of replacing stuff, like broken down cars, I haven’t bought a new car…ever. I’ll stick with used Asian automobiles which are easy and cheap to repair (Hyundai, Honda, Nissan, Toyota). Would love to own a German car (or an American muscle car…Mustang or Camaro) one day, but for now that’s only a dream.

Right now I am heavily invested in US and Canadian resource stocks (Uranium, gold, silver, copper), hoping to ride the next bull market up over the next 5-10 years. I’ve been very selective in my purchases of my freakin’ hard-earned cash, so I only buy the best management teams with proven track records in their respective businesses. To be honest, I’m sitting on mostly cash right now, waiting for the right time to buy more or buy new companies. With my investment horizon being 5-10 years, and the cyclical bear market (4 years now) in resources coming to an end, I"m of the opinion that’s where I’ll get the most bang for my buck over that time period. I hope to God I’m right :astonished:

Wow, your wife earns 100k and you earn 100k plus. You are doing very well for Taiwan. No wonder you don’t want to move away. Your situation is very fortunate actually as very few Taiwanese let alone women earn that kind of money. You were quite evasive in these details until now, that’s my feeling.

Wife makes 100,000nt, you make 100,000nt, you’re heavily invested already, but still sitting mostly on cash.
Sounds like you’re doing fine.
Keep investing wisely and growing your money, you and the wife should be able to save about 100,000nt per month for several years. Your situation is better than most families in Taiwan. Try ride out the teaching for as long as you can then.

I’d be very wary of owning the miners. They are they first to go belly up in a crash because they burn through cash. They’re also notorious for changing the company name, replacing the sign on the door or being acquired. Uranium One was the golden boy of uranium miners and look what happened to them. You can still play uranium, silver, gold, copper in other ways without owning the miners