Foreign and Taiwanese male friends?

Birds of a feather flock togehter. Simple as that. When you throw other elements into the equation (race, language, interests, etc.) it all makes sense.
Almost everytime I go out on a weekend I’ll make a new male “friend” (not like that you…). But that’s because I share some similar interests (video games, Counter Strike, video games, break dancing, KTV, etc.) Once the language gap gets shortened, I’ll probably know some people that I would consider to be a real friends.

Here something else I’ve noticed. It seems like people here are really (really) busy. There was one guy that worked at an E-cafe close to the house. I actually hung out with him a lot until our schedules didn’t match. But he had these rediculous hours at the coffe shop, plus he was going to a cram school to get ready to pass an entrance test so he could go to school overseas. He was college aged.

It seems to me that a lot of people do the school thing (the crazy school thing with class all day coupled with cram schools) 'till there about 26, then they work a lot and start a family with little time to pick up friends on the way (really good friends).

Don’t overestimate the language barrier. My mandarin is very good, I read speak and write - however, I have no more local friends because of that. I still tend to think that it’s differences in culture and outlook. While that’s an issue as well when you are in relationships with local females, at least the scope of recretional activities is more wide.

yeah, many went suicidal because of this…
back in my school days we merely have five hours a day, six days a week.

ax

It has to be the cultural difference. Thinking about my closest friends here. They are not just foriegners but actually the same nationality.
Why? For me it because after a hectic day/week I want to truly RELAX with friends. I spend my working day predominantly with Taiwanese,
being patient over the language issues, differences in interpretation (many of these are my problem not theirs due to my poor mandarin)
Relaxation comes from talking with people about sport, women, music,
etc + importantly HUMOUR ie having a laugh. All these things are fairly culture/ country specific & hence the route of least resistance is to hang out with your own nationality where it all comes naturally.
As I reflect on this, I dont feel particularly good about it as I feel that part of the benefit of time overseas should be to meet & befriend people from different countries & cultures. But also I am reminded of a conversation I had with a close friend who had just finished a 2 year round the world trip. She said that her expectation at the start was that
she would broaden her mind & gain to appreciate other cultures, but at the end of the trip the only culture that she appreciated more was her own.

Most of my friends are local dudes. For me, it is a matter of percentages. When most of the people I work with each day are Taiwanese, why would I have a lot of foreign friends? You can find quality people among any group, in any country. I suppose part of the reason is that I really enjoy communicating in Mandarin, and am consistently fascinated by local history and culture.

The foreign friends I do have tend to be those who enjoy living in Taiwan. I can’t stand whiners, and I find that a lot of foreigners walk around bent over, heads firmly stuck up their arses.

That’s a good point. When there’s a common interest between the two people (ie. video games) there isn’t a lot of verbal communication that has to go back and forth. After challenging one of my students to a game of Tekken 4 he invited me to his house so we could find out who was better. I was hesitent at first, but he told me his parents wouldn’t mind. Well, his English isn’t very good and my Chinese sucks, but when your beating the crap out of some kid that thought they could handle an old school Tekken master, you only need to point and laugh. :smiley: :sunglasses:

:laughing: Another good point.

Many good points made in this thread. I thought I could contribute my thoughts to the pool…

I would say language is the number one barrier. Many of you may speak excellent Chinese, but to truely mix in with local Taiwanese men (if you are even remotely interested), knowing some Taiwanese probably would do the trick. If you don’t “speak” the language, it’s probably hard for them to actually express what they want to express in the term that you’d understand in the way that they’d want you to understand. Knowing that, many would just give up and stop short at “hello, how are you…”

Another issue I think may also be that neither sides are making efforts to truely “want to” know and understand each other (flame me if I am wrong). I was lucky to have American friends who have been very patient with me in wanting to find out what I have to say when I was back in college. And that really boosted my confidence in wanting to share my thoughts more, no matter how trivial; and as a result, my best friends in college are all white. Those friendships have lasted for years now that a few of them are married with kids. But then I am kind of an odd ball too.

Of all my Taiwanese friends who went to the same college in the States, probably only a couple of us came out having made life-long friendships with Americans. Coincidently, we both speak almost flawless English and our American friends all happen to be extraordinarily patient. Then again, I personally invested an entire school year reading through popular American magazines just so that I can understand the latest topics and terms used in conversations (I started with Entertainment Weekly, some car magazine, GQ and some other junk magazines). Not to say that Americans are trashy, but I found it easier to “fit in” knowing what they know and it made my life so much easier when I know the slangs, sayings and news without them having to explain to me… It works both ways, I guess.

In light of that… do any of you know what “lin lao shr” (

Just be like me. Have no friends, only people who tolerate you. That way, you still have plenty of valuable time to gaze at your own navel.

Well, interesting point. However, that can also be an issue when you are westerners of different nationality. My cultural background is different in many subtle ways from that of an American for instance. I mean if they start to discuss American football, then I am well and truly locked out of that conversation. However, I still make friends with other westerners.

If this is in reference to the point(s) I made, I guess the “point” is, if one bothers to do some “homework” and brush up on certain aspects of whatever differences there are, it’s not that hard to make friends via those channels. Then one will see just how much he may be similar to someone else of another culture (this applies universally to almost anything I guess).

So using your analogy in American football, if you had taken the time to understand its rules, prominent teams, players and maybe even keep track of a game or two, the next time someone talks about it, you wouldn’t be as lost, no?

If I hadn’t taken my time to read up on all those magazines and brushed up on my “current affairs” in American culture, I would never even have the chance to have the friends I have today. So, you are right. Culture is a big issue; but what has one done to overcome it is more important than just pointing out the fact… :slight_smile:

It’s the interests, dummy.

I really believe you need common interests. With women that’s very easily established :laughing:

How many Taiwanese males have travelled abroad. Very few and then usually on tour buses or study (tends to be the girls that do foreign study for summertime etc). There was also a restriction (maybe still is) on males who hadn’t completed military service. When I meet fellow westerners I can chat about places I’ve been , opinions on this nationality versus that nationality, what’s the best football (soccer team)…how do u play this sport etc…where is the best diving…what it’s like to be a foreigner in Taiwan. You have got a number of things that you can instantly strike up a good conversation with. If the conversation doesn’t work drink more beer or go to a rowdy pub and do some silly dancing. I too tend to spend half my time with people from my own nationality and nearby countries. I try not to but find that it is the most fun for me and the most comfortable.

How many Taiwanese do the above, very few. The difference is in the ECONOMIC ability of the locals, in both time and money to pursue interests that many westerners take for granted. Actually the economic side of things really struck me as I found that very very few people have friends that have a big difference in wealth between them, and in the background of couples and married people. If you only get a few days holiday on your second year of a contract it doesn’t give you much time for foreign holidays. Plus they will be studying and need the money to pay for this, whether home or abroad. If you are a Taiwanese male you also have the responsibility to follow your parent’s wishes and their future upkeep. The parents aren’t going to facilitate their sons to go to foreign countries for holidays when they should be studying or working.
If you are an average Taiwanese male you have in your mid 20s you have basically spent your whole life studying and then you have to do two years military service. The Taiwanese males I have worked with have always been very friendly and I have to say they are a good lot, just that we don’t have the same interests. They make good work mates although the social life can be a bit stale.

  1. In general I can’t go for a beer with them
  2. I can’t discuss sport cos they are not really into it
  3. I can’t talk about other places I’ve worked with them
  4. I can’t discuss what a pack of wankers that nationality is…blah blah (although if i put in japanese it might work, thing is I don’t have any beef with the japanese) since most Taiwanese don’t have knowledge of these things

If I learned chinese better, took up online games or more KTV, mahjong and visiting special KTVs I guess I could have a couple of male Taiwanese friends but I think as long as I live here the likeliehood is low.
As another poster said, I have some pretty cool aquaintances but no real taiwanese male friends.

Strange, most of my good friends in Malaysia are locals of Chinese descent and even here in Taiwan I have a few local male friends which whom I hang out from time to time. I speak no Mandarin and they speak simple English only, but it’s not a problem at all.

I guess the key is to find a common interest and show some understanding, perhaps as the wai guo ren you need to - how should I put it? - keep a lower profile, i.e. don’t make them go into expensive restaurants (I don’t mean the fancy type but expensive considered by local standards) or other places they can’t afford. And try not to be the all-kwowing, wise foreigner (even you are :wink: ) all the time. Show a bit of understanding and appreciation - you can rant later on Forumosa but usually not in front of those you want to consider your friends.
After all, would you entertain or be friend with a foreigner in your home country who keeps on complaining about all the things you like!?

I know it’s not easy and sometimes I also feel the urge to go hang out with people where communicating is less, say, stressfull or I feel like eating a Western or more expensive meal, but I usually can do that another time and instead let my friends decide and go along. And if you become good friends and you are invited to their homes, there celebrations (say e.g. a wedding), being introduced to their friends, you can learn more and experience the culture first hand it makes up for it.

I only like talking to Taiwanese guys when I feel that it does not involve work … sometimes I am in the mood but other times I feel it is just too much hassle.

Maybe it is not totally culture but maybe just language… have got explain this and that … and unsure if they get the point. sometimes it is ok to shoot the shit with them but only if I am in the mood to be honest

It is easier to talk to girls well …cause guys like doing this …and of course while doign this there are always the thoughts of giving her a good pumping running in the background

However like others here… I do not have what i would call close friends… maybe its to do with the churn of people in Taiwan… why try and commit to a seriuos friendship whent hat person may leave

On the other hand my Anglo Saxon friends (english speaking friends) are very chummy chummy… maybe it is the situation . that being we are foreigners in a foreign country but mainly cause it is easier and more enjoyable

but are they close I would not say so… if we left in the mornign and went back to my coutnry would be still share the commonalities that make our friendship… or is it just the commonality of Taiwan that makes us friends

I am not sure if I can agree completely…

[quote=“headhonchoII”]1. In general I can’t go for a beer with them
2. I can’t discuss sport cos they are not really into it
3. I can’t talk about other places I’ve worked with them
4. I can’t discuss what a pack of wankers that nationality is…blah blah (although if i put in japanese it might work, thing is I don’t have any beef with the japanese) since most Taiwanese don’t have knowledge of these things[/quote]
Well, almost all of my American friends don’t do any of the above. Some of them have never even travelled out of their own state! some of them had to take out a loan, AND work two jobs just so they could stay in school; and to some of them I am their ONLY friend who’s not American. So I respectfully disagree with your points above if that’s what you have experienced so far… :?

If one really cares to spend time and the effort, one can certain find things in common; granted maybe not every Taiwanese men, but I’d be hard pressed if those of you who don’t have any Taiwanese friends can’t find even one person who can share some of the most basic interests, thoughts or ideas and through those become friends. It’s just absurd.

[quote=“headhonchoII”]If I learned Chinese better, took up online games or more KTV, mahjong and visiting special KTVs I guess I could have a couple of male Taiwanese friends but I think as long as I live here the likeliehood is low.
As another poster said, I have some pretty cool aquaintances but no real Taiwanese male friends.[/quote]
And to some, as long as the living condition, economy, luck (or whatever) does not change for the most locals, it’s probably unlikely they’d have to luxury to travel, go study abroad and do the things you have experienced. To this, I agree with most posters that this may be a cultural thing.

As I mentioned, this is a two-way thing. You can’t expect the locals to share the experiences that YOU have when you haven’t spent time or effort to experience what they have gone through. It doesnt’ have to be about mahjon, KTV or anything of that sort. What about discussions about travelling in Taiwan? Life in general? Politics (Taiwan-China relations, for example)? Or, heck, philosophy? Not that I am mocking anyone, but do you not think they are incapable of such discussions?

And for those who are not very good with Chinese, perhaps language is a good start. If you want to live like a “foreigner” in Taiwan, you become one. If you want to live like a “local” (so to speak), then immerse yourselves in what the locals do, care about what they care, learn about what they do… etc. One can certainly live in a foreign land, speak of no language and care nothing about the locals. But then, what’s the point of being there unless the entire purpose of it is simply make some quick English-tutoring bucks, enjoy the women and get out?

Sorry if I sound pissy or biased… just my two cents (yet again).

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Not like I know about a guy-to-guy relationship first-hand, but with any group if you have a similar experience, culture, or interest then it’s much easier to establish a relationship with them. I have only one Taiwanese female friend here that I could truly call a friend who I met while hitchhiking in Taroko Gorge last summer, but we have drifted apart because she has to work and travel all the time, but we had similar interests and liked to talk. I have a few Taiwanese friends from back home, one who was my English conversation and culture partner my senior year of college and her sisters and friends that I met through her but our friendship was based on introducing her to American culture since she was studying there and for her to introduce me to Taiwanese culture since I was moving there.
With romantic relationships you can rely on more than just conversation to keep the relationship going and there are some non-verbal things you can do that shows your interest in each other (try cuddling up with a platonic male buddy and see how far that gets you).
I think the reason why western foreigners from different nationalities get along better than western foreigners with Taiwanese locals is because 1) we are undergoing a similar experience in living in a foreign culture away from our native lands and so we can keep our conversations going with discussing those experiences and 2) our cultures among ourselves have more in common than the Taiwanese one. We know more about each others’ cultures because our countries interact with each other more than they do with the Taiwanese culture. We also tend to stick to something familiar when in a place of unfamiliar things, like faces that we are accustomed to seeing back home.
I came to Taiwan with the noble expectations that I would learn more Chinese (sort of accomplished), inspire Taiwanese children through teaching (sort of accomplished), and learn more about the Taiwanese culture through learning Chinese calligraphy and learning a traditional Taiwanese instrument (has not happened much), and make more Taiwanese friends which simply has not happened beyond my one friend. Of course I also expected to leave after living here for two years, but now that I just signed my housing and work contract for another year, I suppose that’s not going to happen either. :slight_smile:

Before I was married I had one Taiwanese male friend and a lot of female friends, after I was married most of my Taiwanese friends were male. I think there are a lot of valid points raised here as to why this is so common place so I’ll not add anything to the fray except to say that my Taiwanese friends here are like family, just as my Western friends are; I drink, I smoke, I go to ‘fourth level KTV’s’ and I love the Indian on Bada Rd. Any coincidence?

My best friend in Taiwan is male. He is a few years older than me and has a family. He is also a bit different from the average Taiwanese man in that he is not obsessed with work or money. On a few occassions I have met Taiwanese men of a similar age and gone out a few times, but then lost contact. I think they have either gone off to do their army service or been too busy with their jobs. The few female Taiwanese friends I have have all lived overseas, so we share some common experience together.

Well, you have to talk to friends and if your conversations cannot have ongoing common ways of relating to each other, then it’s hard to maintain a decent friendship.