Foreign fighter fouled at SanDa Wang

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HhYvLpIpNg
Here’s the link. A local fighter in last week’s sandawang match got fouled very badly. As you can see, his opponent kicked him when he was down. This was about as against the rules as you can get. According to a thread in another forum, this foreign fighter is now looking at multiple plastic surgeries and having titanium put in his face permanently.

The Taiwanese fighter has said that he did this in response to arrogance by foreign fighters and coaches:
news.pchome.com.tw/sport/ettoday … 41000.html

Edit: I edited this post and some others because this should be about the terrible thing that happened to this foreign fighter, and nothing should detract from that. So if subsequent posts don’t make sense, that’s my fault. Peace.

That Australian guy is about the most decent person you could meet - I hope you’re not tarring him with the same brush as those who aren’t like that. [edit: apparently, it’s not who I thought it was - has a very similar look and fighting style; I’m sure he’s still a decent guy, though :smiley:]

The other incident you mention: Although he was the coach for a BJJ team, he was a referee at the event on that day, and he is Taiwanese-born. But he has nothing to do with the team represented at this most recent event.

I’ve not heard of any cases where the BJJ club showed up at a local dojo to harass the practitioners there, and I really can’t imagine it happened the way you describe it. The BJJ clubs I know of usually get invited to other dojos, such as SanDa or judo, so that each group can learn from the other, and I can pretty confidently say that they wouldn’t be there to ‘harass’ anybody - none of the BJJ guys I know are that disrespectful or that dumb.

There have been some problems with refereeing and judging decisions at these MMA events, but the fighters I know who lost a decision or were disqualified in questionable fashion took it all pretty well. Most of them respect the fact that these events are usually organized so well and that they get a chance to test their skills.

Having said all that, I don’t know the rules of this SanDa competition. If that was an illegal kick, the fighter should be suspended or fined - I don’t know if the SanDa governing bodies have that authority, but clearly it’s something they now need to consider.

Hope the Australian guy is OK. He responded at length on the thread below the video, and in a pretty mature fashion, I have to add.

deleted

Then I don’t understand your post. You say you’re not privy to the local NHB scene, but I know that you are, and you’re all over the local MMA forums.

The way I read your thread is that you are trying to expose some very old, very questionable incidences over the fact that a Taiwanese fighter apparently fouled a foreign fighter and was quoted as doing it because of old beef. Yet you know from the other thread you posted on that the fighter in question was remorseful to the foreign coach who called him to get his side of the story.

Your post seems more inflammatory than necessary to promote open discussion.

Just my opinion, of course. Hope you’re well and have a very happy Yuletide. :wink:

This is from his post fight interview:
“…網友強烈批評說他缺乏運動精神;吳東興今天也強悍回應,他說這是攻擊的連續動作,歡迎任何人來向他挑戰。…
外國人在台灣,他們有好幾個道館,他們都覺得台灣人…他們外國人比較厲害啊,我已經忍他們很久了,尤其是他們教練,他們那個教練就是很臭屁啊!」”

Does that sound remorseful? Not to me it doesn’t.

On the local MMA forum you post on, you read that the fighter said he was misquoted by the paper.

And the ‘Gracie-style invasion’ that was posted on your blog was not first hand; that guy joined the club more than a year after the representatives of the non-BJJ club attended the Yoshida BJJ seminar. No invasion happened while I was there, which was up until about 6 months after the seminar.

I’m intrigued, though. I’ll ask the person who made the comment next time I have a chance.

that would be a heck of a misquote. is hard to believe, granted that i am aware of the standards of the local scumbags, ahem “media”. which rag was it

I can’t believe that after all this time anyone is even remotely surprised by this behavior. You wonder why the people here only trust relatives… and even then…

Anyway, welcome to the sandbox that is Taiwan; run by locals for locals. It’s more than just space and time that is separated by the Straights. :laughing:

Elegua,

I don’t believe you’re correct either. There are many things done in Taiwan that meet international standards. There is lots of industry here that operates by international standards. On the sporting fields, Tae Kwon Do here is world class. Judo is fairly competitive, as are many other sports.

It’s true there are many things done here that have been by-passed by international developments. The problem with MMA is that even internationally, it’s not well-developed. You can hardly be surprised then that the standard in Taiwan is not up to the world’s. It has no government support and it’s not represented in any of the major international athletic competitions.

It’s going to be a long time before Taiwan sees its first indigenous fighters winning internationally.

Elegua,

I don’t believe you’re correct either. There are many things done in Taiwan that meet international standards. There is lots of industry here that operates by international standards. On the sporting fields, Tae Kwon Do here is world class. Judo is fairly competitive, as are many other sports.

It’s true there are many things done here that have been by-passed by international developments. The problem with MMA is that even internationally, it’s not well-developed. You can hardly be surprised then that the standard in Taiwan is not up to the world’s. It has no government support and it’s not represented in any of the major international athletic competitions.

It’s going to be a long time before Taiwan sees its first indigenous fighters winning internationally.

It was form the link that I provided in my first post:
news.pchome.com.tw/sport/ettoday … 41000.html

The word that sums up that Chinese competitor is

SPINELESS WEASEL

that is all i have to say on it.

[quote=“fenlander”]The word that sums up that Chinese competitor is

SPINELESS WEASEL

that is all I have to say on it.[/quote]

Erm…that’s actually two words.
But yeah, appalling.

PART 1 ( edited )

A basic run down of what happened.

We have a guy at our club with a lot of pro fighting experience kickboxing/mma. Well he was supposed to fight in this event but had to pull out because of other commitments. The organizers asked if we had someone to fight in the 90kg division. I am 84 at the time so thought I would give it a go. I had 3 weeks to prepare.

The competition is for a pro event in Taiwan, King of Sanda. I find out later that my opponent is 104kg and has a lot of experience and is current heavyweight title holder. I have never sparred with anyone over 94kg so I was a little concerned how I would handle his weight difference. I train MMA so do not focus on striking all the time. Fighting a larger opponent and winning would require me to be a lot better than he is.

During the fight I felt more confident as it went on. I started to think more. But looking at the video I can not believe the things I was doing and not doing. I honestly felt like giving up on the striking game altogether afterwards.
I think I landed more punches than he did but also landed on my ass twice. First time he grabbed a front kick. I landed on my back. He kept coming at me so I through an upkick to push him away from me. I was totally wrong for doing that and I immediately tried to show my regrets and apologies to him when I stood back up. This was totally a defensive move though as I felt in danger. A reasonable error by an inexperienced ring fighter.

Later after some exchanges I grab his leg when he goes for a circle kick. He was too strong and pulled his leg away. He hits me with a body shot. I honestly do not remember it hurting. But I fall to the ground and I don’t know why. I really think it was just my balance or a push. You can see by the video I don’t bend at the waist as if winded by a body shot. I simply fall back. I try to get up immediately. As I put my hands on the ground to raise myself he soccer kicks me in the head while I am on the ground. KOing me .You can see he does the antics afterwards too. I got 3 fractures in my jaw and 1 in the eye socket. I have to get a steal plate put in my jaw.

The event organizers apologized.

Overall considering it was my first ever fight in a ring and put into such a situation. Larger opponent, professional event, cameras, big crowd. I couldn’t expect myself to perform technically perfect. I was definitely feeling more comfortable as the fight went on. I am sure I was in better condition and could have done much better in round 2 and 3. I was the first to admit my technique was sloppy. But I was landing more than he was. I would have been landing more in round 2 and 3. I was getting much more relaxed as it went on and started to use the attacks a planned to.

There is no excuse for what he did. Even in the UFC you cannot soccer kick a downed opponent in the head. We were not in an exchange that he couldn’t stop motion of strikes. He clearly saw that I was down and getting up. There was no way that he could not have done that deliberately. Using the excuse that the referee should have been there is rubbish. Can I kick him in the groin because the referee didn’t stop me? No because it is my responsibility to know the rules. What about headbutts, Elbows, Strikes to the back of the head, Biting and numerous other things that can be done without the referee being there to stop it in time. It is the fighters responsibility to have control and follow the rules and not rely on the ref to control him.

For any of Mr Wu’s students giving excuses, ask yourself if you think it is fair for your opponent to do any thing just because the referee wasn’t able to get in between fast enough. I practice Brazilian Juijitsu. When you have a submission on an opponent you do not break his arm using full strength just because the ref didn’t stop you in time. Hopefully Mr Wu is clear to his students and members of his mistake.

Scott.

PART 2

Well today I met with Mr Wu to settle the costs incurred from his actions. He was very remorseful and paid without complaint or questions. He was probably relieved I wasn’t going to try and get as much money as I could and just asked for expenses lost.

I think he was genuine with his apology and hopefully a lesson was learned. I don’t think he is truly a bad guy. Misguided maybe about the correct way to conduct yourself in the ring/competition. I obviously am giving no excuses for the man as I suffered greatly from his actions and still am.I fully forgive him as Feel he is actually remorseful. I have done some stupid things in my past as everyone has.Hopefully I recover fully in the near future so it is not such a big deal. If it was a permanent injury /scar then maybe my attitude would be different. I went into the competition expecting to get hurt, just not in such a brutal illegal manor.

I also hope that this can be a lesson learned to future event organizers as to making it clear to the competitors as to rules and conduct. There was no formal rule meeting as far as I know, and as far as my opponents shady history I am not sure he was reprimanded correctly for his violation of the rules in past fights. So he never really made a change to his attitude/ conduct.

I learned one lesson from this. Protect yourself at all times and do not expect the guy that your fighting has the same respect for the rules as yourself.

I hear some talk about hate between locals and foreign run clubs. I am not a very long termer here in Taiwan. But I have been deeply involved for the short time I have been here. I personally think it is not as bad as people talk about. It is simple club rivalry really more than a racial issue. Also I think the Taiwanese clubs get overshadowed by some of the foreign clubs in the mma arena. The foreign clubs have a huge advantage by getting constant new members/coaches from overseas that also share techniques and knowledge from some of the best clubs in the world. The local Taiwan clubs do not get this privilege. Foreign clubs also have more resources available in English off the internet. So I think it will take a little longer for the locals to get fully interested in the MMA scene. I know that Evolution Combat is Taiwanese club actually. It is run by a Canadian (Gordon). Although Gordon I really see more as Taiwanese than Canadian. Anyone that knows him could vouch for this. Locals are welcomed with open arms as they are at the other clubs run by foreigners I am sure.

I have received a lot of support from the local Taiwanese and the Sanda organization from this incident.I hope it has a positive effect on the MA community here rather than a negative one. I would like nothing more than to see a local Taiwanese in the UFC one day. I hope one stupid action does not put bad light on all of the Taiwan MA community.

Scott.

Thanks for all your support and Special thanks to Brian Kennedy for his advice.

Scott -
You are a class act. Best to you in your recovery and future.

I wish you a speed recovery Ozzy.

My friend is fighting in Japan, and he tells me there, soccer kicks to the head are deemed not dangerous, and hence, allowed… how strange.

But you seem really merciful and understanding towards someone who seemed to have acted maliciously, and as TC says, that shows you’ve got class.

Jack,

Not deemed dangerous in an mma event maybe. I have never heard of any striking(kickboxing,muay thai or whatever) allowing kicking a downed opponent in the head.

Thanks for the best wishes guys.

[quote=“Ozzy”]Jack,

Not deemed dangerous in an mma event maybe. I have never heard of any striking(kickboxing,muay thai or whatever) allowing kicking a downed opponent in the head.

Thanks for the best wishes guys.[/quote]

That’s correct. I should be more precise. My friend is fighting MMA events in Japan where such a move is allowed while in N. America MMA, it’s generally not allowed, because it’s dangerous.

[quote=“Jack Burton”][quote=“Ozzy”]Jack,

Not deemed dangerous in an mma event maybe. I have never heard of any striking(kickboxing,muay thai or whatever) allowing kicking a downed opponent in the head.

Thanks for the best wishes guys.[/quote]

That’s correct. I should be more precise. My friend is fighting MMA events in Japan where such a move is allowed while in N. America MMA, it’s generally not allowed, because it’s dangerous.[/quote]

NP, I just thought to make the point of the difference between MMA and a pure striking competition. I think a lot of people do not know how to distinguish the difference.

Not necessarily yourself.