Foreign teachers well-paid?

[quote=“itakitez”]
PS TaiDa may be No. 2 in Taiwan at 168, but NTU is top 20 in world and that’s why, in my company and many others, an NTU undergrad is gold-dust, and if a US postgrad is added, thats time for big money.[/quote]

:ponder: TaiDa is National Taiwan University. What university were you referring to?

Also, on what ranking system did you see NTU in the top 20? On the Times Higher Education scale for 2008 it came in at 124th (down from 102nd in 2007). It’s a good university in Taiwan, ranked either first or second against other universities in Taiwan, but compared to the rest of the world, it’s not a top tier school.

[quote=“itakitez”]Without trying to complicate matter, the salarys for ESL teachers here are very good, on a per hour basis. Especially if you are one earning 800 and not 600 an hour.

However, the salaries in Taiwan, even after considering lower percentage taxes, subsidized healthcare… are generally not good. I still have no idea how anyone could budget for a 30k monthly expenditure (and I mean comfortable, not western, but comfortable: house, car (you try having kids with a scooter), savings, retirement, health incurance, life insurance, renovations HOLIDAYS!). Then 60k dual income plus 2 kids, that makes comfortable living impossible

Then again, as raised before, the “family” wealth is VERY important. Very few of the young people have ANY of their own money, they may work, but that 30k is all theirs and daddy will top it up. This is one of the many things keeping wages down, young people are still available for such shit wages because mommy and poppy are subsidizing them.

Also, there are some VERY well paid jobs, ones I know about
air traffic control - 70k - plus civil servant bonuses (low tax, gov. pension…)
manufacturing managers (2-3million a year)
construction managers (the guys who organise the order and materials and timings/time lines) 3 million
pilot 200k/month
Politician 200K + Special allowance fund + Gov pension + Kickbacks

im gonna pursuade my wife to get into politics!

PS Tai-Da may be No. 2 in Taiwan at 168, but NTU is top 20 in world and that’s why, in my company and many others, an NTU undergrad is gold-dust, and if a US postgrad is added, thats time for big money.[/quote]

Taiwan does have some well renumerated jobs, these are government linked or higher management in business. You underestimated pay of air traffic controllers in Taiwan, I know one working for the military earning over 100k/mth pretty much tax and expense free. All ex-military personnel and public servants are entitled to proper pensions and lump sums on retirement in contrast to private workers. They also have a special savings rate upon retirement and up until very recently didn’t pay income tax. They also got govt subsidised housing in many cases. Owners of private enterprises also do very well on the very low tax, low regulation and labour cost base in this country.

In gneral engineers don’t get paid well in Taiwan compared to other countries. It’s only senior engineers or medium to higher management in large corporations that get paid well…but they trade off with massive commitment to work at expense of proper family life. Except for in management women get exploited with very low rates of pay…however they have less stress generally. The further focus on ‘overseas’ degrees is also leading to a lack of social mobility, penalising families who don’t have the financial ability to send their progeny overseas.

Taiwan did well for decades but has failed to pay private workers a proper wage over the last 10-15 years…to make the next economic leap and improve living standards more. This is because of many factors that I won’t bother to mention here.

Just as an aside 200k/mth for a pilot is very low paid compared to international standards, that is why many have emigrated and they can even earn more with Chinese airlines.

[quote=“lbksig”][quote=“itakitez”]
PS Tai-Da may be No. 2 in Taiwan at 168, but NTU is top 20 in world and that’s why, in my company and many others, an NTU undergrad is gold-dust, and if a US postgrad is added, thats time for big money.[/quote]

:ponder: Tai-Da is National Taiwan University. What university were you referring to?

Also, on what ranking system did you see NTU in the top 20? On the Times Higher Education scale for 2008 it came in at 124th (down from 102nd in 2007). It’s a good university in Taiwan, ranked either first or second against other universities in Taiwan, but compared to the rest of the world, it’s not a top tier school.[/quote]

whoops, knew I should have fact checked that :blush:

anyhoo, not too bad really

The pay is potentially not bad, once you’ve paid your dues and worked your way up to 800/class-hour. But, would you still describe that as “very good”?

Don’t forget all the unpaid hours of traveling, preparation, review and follow-up. Wouldn’t you say that it’s realistic, or at least possible, that for each class hour, there is another unpaid hour of round-trip travel and prep? That easily cuts the per-hour pay in half. Also, consider there is often (generally?) no paid sick time, no paid holidays, no paid vacation and no annual bonus that is customary in this country. Your student cancels, you don’t get paid. Typhoon day - no pay.

You have to consider the whole package, not just the per-class-hour rate.

The pay is potentially not bad, once you’ve paid your dues and worked your way up to 800/class-hour. But, would you still describe that as “very good”?

Don’t forget all the unpaid hours of traveling, preparation, review and follow-up. Wouldn’t you say that it’s realistic, or at least possible, that for each class hour, there is another unpaid hour of round-trip travel and prep? That easily cuts the per-hour pay in half. Also, consider there is often (generally?) no paid sick time, no paid holidays, no paid vacation and no annual bonus that is customary in this country. Your student cancels, you don’t get paid. Typhoon day - no pay.

You have to consider the whole package, not just the per-class-hour rate.[/quote]

Your points are spot on. I have a friend who gets about 120,000NT/month, which sounds incredible, until I tell you that he has about 48 teaching hours per week (minimum prep. time, but probably at least another 12 hours per week in travel). That comes out at about 500NT/hour, which I wouldn’t rave about. It’s sheer volume that gets him to that wage, and frankly, I don’t know how he does it because he crams all of that into four days. I’d collapse within a month.

Someone he knows wanted me to tutor some kids for 600-700NT/hour, 1.5 hours per week, 20 minutes (at least) from where I live. I asked for 900NT/hour (and I don’t think they’ll go for it since it’s been a week now and they haven’t called back). Now though, I’m thinking I can’t even be bothered for that much (which works out at a bit more than 600NT/hour, not including any prep. time), so if she does get back to me, I’m going to decline. With prep. time of 30 minutes, it would take it down to about 500NT/hour. At 600NT/hour, including travel and prep. time, the real rate would be 337NT/hour. That’s ridiculous, which is what I find amusing about all these clowns with their ads on tealit, etc. wanting the best tutor in the world for 10USD/hour. Time for a reality check, guys.

yes they are still paid very good on a per hour basis

and seriously, very few teachers I know cut their hourly rate in half with prep

travel, everyone commutes, that’s life - anything over 1 hour a day you can count as “over and above normal”

Typhoon days are too rare to really bother adjusting for

OK, so its not a great salary, but compared to McDs (110 an hour) of local english teacher (300 without overseas exp, 4-500 with), those on 800 an hour have nothing to winge about, unless they feel like underpaid prostitutes, who Im guessing make more, what other profession equal 800 an hour?

[quote=“itakitez”]
OK, so its not a great salary, but compared to McDs (110 an hour) of local english teacher (300 without overseas exp, 4-500 with), those on 800 an hour have nothing to winge about, unless they feel like underpaid prostitutes, who Im guessing make more, what other profession equal 800 an hour?[/quote]

A waitress, in my country. ‘underpaid prostitute’ sums up my feelings about teaching in Taiwan. :laughing:

The hourly rate has barely moved in ten years yet Taipei is getting more and more expensive. Any flip around TEIT shows that conditions for teachers are far inferior to most other countries. Poor work environment, stagnant pay. Why bother, unless you have family ties or something?

[quote=“itakitez”]yes they are still paid very good on a per hour basis

and seriously, very few teachers I know cut their hourly rate in half with prep

travel, everyone commutes, that’s life - anything over 1 hour a day you can count as “over and above normal”

Typhoon days are too rare to really bother adjusting for

OK, so its not a great salary, but compared to McDs (110 an hour) of local english teacher (300 without overseas exp, 4-500 with), those on 800 an hour have nothing to winge about, unless they feel like underpaid prostitutes, who Im guessing make more, what other profession equal 800 an hour?[/quote]

Are you saying the teachers you know don’t do any prep or admin work? WOW!

If the person worked at one location for 5 - 8 hours, then I would agree that commute time is not an issue. However, if the assignments are in 3 different places around the city, with hours spread out between 7:30AM and 8:00PM, then travel time is an issue. For example, morning class in Neihu. 1.5hrs r/t, noon class in Xinyi, 1 hour r/t, evening class on Nanjing E Rd, another 1.5 hrs r/t. Total paid teaching hours - 5; travel hours - 4; prep time for 3 classes (conservatively) - 1.5 hrs; total committed hours - 10.5. Now tell me the per-class-hour pay isn’t cut in half when measured by total committed hours…

You easily brush off typhoon days, but they are just one of a number of situations when a typical salaried worker gets paid and the foreign teacher doesn’t. Add up average number of vacation days, national holidays, sick days and typhoon days, and you’re probably looking at about a month of unpaid time off.

Comparing native English speaking teachers to fast food clerks is just ridiculous.

You can’t really compare a native English speaking teacher with a local teacher, either. First, the market is different. Supply and demand are different. But let’s look at the comparison for a minute. The local teachers who I worked with at the high school got paid for all their admin time, vacations, national holidays, sick pay, typhoons, school breaks PLUS bonus. I got none of those things. I got 8 1/2 months of pay to their 13.

Bottom line, when a worker is handled as an outside contractor, and not a salaried employee who has complete benefit packages, then the per-hour pay should be higher.

I guess I could add to this by saying that I live way down south. I’m guessing that makes me richer than those of you who live in Taipei and teach. I have never lived there, but I did look at places to live in Taipei when I first arrived and it seems to be far more expensive, but with around the same pay. Maybe a little higher pay, right? Not enough though, I’m sure. I’m sure its much more social in Taipei, and not as weird, but I like weird and am doing fine. It’s really cheap to eat down here compared to the restaurants in Taipei, that I know. Oh one thing that sucks (off topic) is that I have not found any Konas down here. WTF?

Buttercup is right that compared to other countries, the rates are not that good, especially if they haven’t moved up in a decade but the cost of living has. I couldn’t, and wouldn’t, live in Taipei. People will compare different places. That’s precisely why I didn’t go to Japan, despite having a much greater desire in other respects (such as having spent a lot of time doing Japanese martial arts). The saving rate and general quality of life would have been far too low. There must be other people making the same assessments about Taiwan, especially qualified teachers. Once again, it’s a case of Taiwan’s loss because other than those who end up with some connection (usually marriage) to Taiwan, it’s simply not worth sticking around if you’re a decent, let alone great, teacher.

What Craig said was also correct. People do end up spending a lot of time travelling unless they’re at the same location for the entire day and they do end up losing money every time there’s a typhoon, national holiday, or even if they’re sick. Our work penalises us if we’re sick, which means sure, we’re there 100% in body (to infect everyone else), but not in spirit. It’s really, really, really short-sighted. Furthermore, this notion of unpaid holidays also means that some people can’t afford to take holidays, which means they never get to recharge, which means the quality of their teaching goes down. Again, very short-sighted.

In Australia, in the public education system, if you’re a casual relief teacher (sub), the annual rate gets divided by approximately 200 (40 school weeks x 5 days) instead of 365, to build the holidays, sick days, etc. into your pay that you would normally get. Of course, very few such teachers end up working the full 200 days because there are times of the year when there aren’t many people taking time off due to illness, PD seminars, etc., but in principle, it’s the same. It’s a way of acknowledging the fact that these people are teachers too, but also, at a practical level, it means there are such teachers available because they haven’t all been driven to other professions due to poverty, although it’s still quite seasonal work.

I know some people here don’t approve of mavericks doing their own thing outside the quasi-legal system, but the only way to get it all above board is to either really start enforcing the laws seriously (which would drive wages up naturally) or to pay teachers more voluntarily or through higher enforced minimum wages, or both. People (such as me) are not going to sit around for too long watching their laobans (who admittedly have overheads, but still) nickle and diming them over an odd typhoon day or sick day, whilst simultaneously collecting 3,000-4,000NT/hour whilst paying them 600-700NT/hour. Once more people really wake up to this, we’re either going to see a mass exodus or the whole industry going really black market, unless there are stronger counter-acting forces. I really think things are going to have to change, though not necessarily for the better (well, that depends upon whose angle you’re looking from). It might even be possible that everyone would lose.

Likewise, at some point, the parents have to really take a step back and look at their role in the whole thing – they’re paying peanuts, and they’re getting monkeys. Now, at some level, that’s what they want (because many really do judge a buxiban by the cute characters on the sign or how well the foreign teachers grin, regardless of teaching quality), but at another, it’s completely absurd that they put their kids in situations where many of their teachers will be well-intentioned, yet unqualified, underpaid, overstressed and sick, and others will just figure that they’re not paid enough to truly give a shit, but it pays for the next night’s drinking. It’s a really false economy to be saving yourself a few coins and getting all that, but it seems to be the same mentality of people who ride on scooters with kids (helmets or not), run red lights and buy knock off goods from night markets. Everyone thinks they’re getting a great deal, but they’re screwing everyone, including themselves. Really, if the parents paid an extra 50NT/hour each, and even if the foreign teacher only got half of that, it would actually mean that you could get a much better system overall – there’d be a higher calibre of teacher to begin with, the teachers would be more dedicated, and you’d see a much higher retention rate. Of course, you might even see better results in English.

Foreign teachers also have to bear the financial consequences for stuff like [url=http://tw.forumosa.com/t/a-short-rant-on-my-soon-to-be-former-employers/52617/1 You need savings in order to take care of yourself if you live on contracts. (Great! Holiday in HongKong!)

[quote]
I know some people here don’t approve of mavericks doing their own thing outside the quasi-legal system, but the only way to get it all above board is to either really start enforcing the laws seriously (which would drive wages up naturally) or to pay teachers more voluntarily or through higher enforced minimum wages, or both. People (such as me) are not going to sit around for too long watching their laobans (who admittedly have overheads, but still) nickle and diming them over an odd typhoon day or sick day, whilst simultaneously collecting 3,000-4,000NT/hour whilst paying them 600-700NT/hour.[/quote]

The funny thing about this is that the laobans don’t refund the students tuition fees for a typhoon day. They are still collecting the same monthly or semesterly tuition payments.

steelersman: I know. What a cheek!

Although, apparently, some will let students make up lessons they missed because they went on holiday, so long as the teacher bears the cost. Just before I quit Hess, I was told I’d have to make up a class for two students (I’d already taught the class for the rest of the students) because they’d gone on a holiday. Of course, they weren’t going to pay me twice. Then they wondered why I quit shortly thereafter and never had to make up the class for those two students.

[quote=“GuyInTaiwan”]
Once again, it’s a case of Taiwan’s loss because other than those who end up with some connection (usually marriage) to Taiwan, it’s simply not worth sticking around if you’re a decent, let alone great, teacher.[/quote]

So you think the best teachers stay in the west? What about the high crime and chances of assault? This is one of the major driving factors pushing teachers away from the UK system, and as you say, there are only a certain number of countries in Asia that most consider “safe”, Japan, Korea, Taiwan. Its like any “business”, its about selling yourself, and if you dont command a high price here, either take a risk and make your money in china/vietname/indonesia/… or accept it.

And how many PAID holidays do you think locals get? My company is SEVEN (7) days that you have to EARN by working for 12 months without going sick. This is the way the country works, is it shortsighted or just the way it goes?

Complain all you want, but Im just trying to let you know that teachers are still highly paid compared to most other “optional workers” (people who choose to live here and are not sent here). Which is still nothing compared to the bankers/expats, but when I earned 62000 teaching I calcualted that as 56,000 flat when looking for a salaried job, thats only 6000 difference, and face it 30mins prep for 60 minutes teaching DOES NOT EXIST in the 600/hour jobs (Kojen/Hess/…). You must already be on 800/hour to need to do that much prep so you are alkready getting compensated, “paid prep”

And I didnt JUST compare to McDs, I also compared to your work mates - and yes, for the skills displayed, most english teachers DONT deserve their 600 an hour, my wife asked 3 of her coworkers whether “with” was a noun or preposition and 3 got it wrong, 2 laughed and didnt know what a prepositin was and one of those then went on to teach the kids that it was a noun - the parents then correct the kids work and then tell the teachers “the kids must have copied it wrong from the board”. If this was me, of course I wouldnt “trust” the teacher and would further request a reduction since these guys are supposed to be “English specialists”. Face it, unless the teachers become more professional, the salaries will keep coming down until they match other jobs where you can drink every night … so there is still a 500 drop before they reach McD’s level.

A lot of really good teachers do stay in the West, but I’m not even talking about that. I’m comparing Taiwan to other countries people may go to work as teachers. It’s a global market and I’m just saying that people probably do compare Taiwan to other places and realise they can do better elsewhere.

I do plan to command a higher price, largely by working for myself and doing group lessons. The only way to make good money here, other than doing forty teaching hours per week, is to run your own show. It’s also possibly one of the few ways to really command some professional respect.

Asking how many paid holidays the locals get is not the point. That’s a race to the bottom. If locals are getting screwed how is that any consollation to anyone else? That’s like telling someone not to complain about you cutting of his arm because you cut off both of someone else’s arms. Maybe that is the way this country works. Taiwan has done a really good job of getting itself from being an agricultural backwater into a fairly developed nation. However, to take it to the next level, to a higher standard of living, they have to make it more people friendly. Maybe that will happen, maybe it won’t. Taiwan and the Taiwanese need to value themselves better or they’re just going to be part of a race to the bottom. They will find they have to run faster and harder just to gradually go backwards when competing against countries with a more desperate workforce that is willing to work longer and for less. That’s no way to move forward.

Again, it’s pointless to compare a teacher from an English speaking country with other “optional workers”. Let’s compare apples to apples, not apples to oranges. Compare English teachers here to English teachers elsewhere, or compare what they get here to what they would get back home. In a sense, I’m not even complaining about it. I know where things stand and I’m not expecting anyone to change for me or stand up for me, which is why I’m planning on doing it for myself. That still doesn’t change the fact that if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys, and the Taiwanese are only selling themselves (and their kids) short in the process. Taiwan doesn’t perform well on English tests compared to other countries, especially when you consider the resources spent on the matter. Maybe people need to be re-evaluating that.

I’m not really sure about your prep. comments. If anything, the people who are on lower amounts at the big chains have to do more prep. because they’re still getting used to their school’s system. For what it’s worth, when I worked at Hess, even people who had been there a lot longer than I had were still putting in a huge amount of prep. time. That may have been because our branch was especially hard on us, but I heard and still hear similar things from enough other people at other branches to know that even if that’s not across the board, it’s common enough in that organisation. I definitely know some people who work at other schools who arrive two minutes before their class starts and leave two minutes after it finishes. Yes, there are jobs like that, but I wonder how many people actually have them. Most people I know don’t. Most people I know work pretty hard.

Okay, thanks for being completely dismissive of the point I was trying to make with the “blah, blah, blah” at the end.

Yes, there are lots of idiot teachers here who don’t know jack. Yes, there are lots who are slack. On the other hand, there are plenty of teachers here who do know their stuff (or who are trying to improve themselves). There are plenty who are dedicated. Until recently, I had a colleague who was extremely knowledgeable about the English language (and he was also fluent in both French and Hungarian and spoke a fair bit of Chinese too). More than that, he is doing his M.A. and is someone who spends his free time finding and reading the latest ESL research. He was all excited because he got to meet Krashen and ask him some questions. He’s that sort of guy. He’s the ultimate professional here. He is increasingly frustrated teaching in the Taiwanese public education system. That says nothing of the private sector here. He wouldn’t last five seconds in a buxiban because he would be telling them the whole way they are doing things is wrong (and have the research to back it up) and because he wouldn’t be good at throwing a sticky ball around. Likewise, if he went out to get some private students, most wouldn’t give a shit about his expertise. Almost all would balk at the idea that he would charge more than 600NT/hour. William Shakespeare himself could arrive by taxi one day but people wouldn’t give a shit about him being an English expert, since English teaching in Taiwan has nothing to do with being an English expert. The laoban would want to know if he would work for 600NT/hour, and the parents and students would expect him to be proficient with a squeaky hammer. End of interview.

It’s ridiculous when Taiwanese complain about teachers who don’t know what a preposition is. This is a problem they have created. You can have a clown or you can have an expert. Very occasionally, you can have someone who can be both. Like I keep saying: if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys, especially if you insist they have a sticky ball in their hands/paws.

[quote=“steelersman”][quote]
I know some people here don’t approve of mavericks doing their own thing outside the quasi-legal system, but the only way to get it all above board is to either really start enforcing the laws seriously (which would drive wages up naturally) or to pay teachers more voluntarily or through higher enforced minimum wages, or both. People (such as me) are not going to sit around for too long watching their laobans (who admittedly have overheads, but still) nickle and diming them over an odd typhoon day or sick day, whilst simultaneously collecting 3,000-4,000NT/hour whilst paying them 600-700NT/hour.[/quote]

The funny thing about this is that the laobans don’t refund the students tuition fees for a typhoon day. They are still collecting the same monthly or semesterly tuition payments.[/quote]

I don’t think this is true with bushibans. I never did it, and I remember the dates on the register changing after typhoon days when I worked for other bushibans. How would they explain it to the parents? There have been 2 typhoon days this term so your kid is only studying 22 lessons, not the usual 24. This means we won’t quite finish the course, but we’ll still be charging you the same amount. I’d be surprised if any bosses manage to pull that one off, but hats off to them if they do. Good salesmen.

It may be true with kindys and anxinbans who charge by the term. I don’t know about them, but the one mate I have who still works kindy gets paid for typhoon days (pretty much the only benefit the poor sod gets).

This might require a new thread - ‘Cheeky laoban stunts’.

The one I got most pissed off with was a bushiban I worked for didn’t pay me for private one on one classes if the student cancelled (unless it was the first lesson of the day and I was already in the school in which case I got paid half). However, I found out from one of my private students that they were still charging the student if he/she cancelled on the day of the lesson. The excuse they were using for this was ‘But we have to pay greedy western teacher.’

Clever bastards!

Oh, and another piece of all encompassing bs you’ll get if you work for a chain school is ‘Head office make us do it.’

itakitez, first it is really irrelevant whether foriegn English teachers are worth 600NT or not. The first issue is that foreigners would probably not move to Taiwan for 400NT. It is a business and parents want foreign teachers thus bosses need foreign teachers. At less than 600NT, I don’t think schools would get enough teachers to provide the services they have advertised and parents have paid for. That service is a foreign teacher in the classroom

Furthermore, GuyInTaiwan is completely correct. Taiwanese buxiban and kindy owners often get what they deserve. I recently got a new part time job and they told me about the foreign teacher’s coming in to work drunk. One had been in Taiwan for some time. Someone at the school could have called the teacher’s previous employer and checked to see if that teacher actually came to work sober.

The same can be said about hiring teachers who don’t know what a preposition is. I have almost never been asked anything about teaching or knowing anything about teaching. It is always a 10 minute demonstration and then yes I got the job or no I didn’t.

itakitez, first it is really irrelevant whether foreign English teachers are worth 600NT or not. The first issue is that foreigners would probably not move to Taiwan for 400NT. It is a business and parents want foreign teachers thus bosses need foreign teachers. At less than 600NT, I don’t think schools would get enough teachers to provide the services they have advertised and parents have paid for. That service is a foreign teacher in the classroom

Furthermore, GuyInTaiwan is completely correct. Taiwanese buxiban and kindy owners often get what they deserve. I recently got a new part time job and they told me about the foreign teacher’s coming in to work drunk. One had been in Taiwan for some time. Someone at the school could have called the teacher’s previous employer and checked to see if that teacher actually came to work sober.

The same can be said about hiring teachers who don’t know what a preposition is. I have almost never been asked anything about teaching or knowing anything about teaching. It is always a 10 minute demonstration and then a yes I got the job and the date to show up for the first class or no I didn’t.[/quote]

This same topic pops up about every 3 months, and the same bad attempts to justify the stagnant EFL pay continue.

  1. Do not compare foreign teachers to local teachers. Foreign teachers are teaching their native language, not their 2nd or 3rd or 4th language. Foreign teachers studied in an English environment for 12 years BEFORE their university education. Yes, my American nephew in 9th grade speaks, writes, listens, and communicates better in English than almost any (if not all) the local English teachers that I have worked with.

  2. Do not compare western universities to local universities. Sorry, they are not of equal quality. This statement may be opinion, but I am 100% convinced that a British political science major who grew up in England, studied in England, and went to university in England, is more qualified than a local who grew up in Taiwan, studied in Taiwan, and studied English education in Taiwan (and no, a one year masters program in the UK at the end of that chain does not make up for all the years of being taught how to “train the students” in Taiwan).

  3. Do not compare the salaries of foreign teachers to those of local convenience store employees. Foreign teachers (yes, all of them, the good, bad, and ugly) are basically specialists in their field. This doesn’t mean they are all great, and yes some are terrible, but frankly that’s a fault of the system and that is an entirely different debate. The fact is, as other previously mentioned, specialists make considerably more than foreign teachers. (And I am not talking about spinal surgeons, I am talking about positions like air traffic control, and department heads in tech companies).

  4. Don’t assume that a local salary is all of their compensation. Locals get to take part of a pension plan that foreigners may not. That is an extra 6% (or 7%?) right there. What is your buxiban CNY bonus? 10,000? 15,000? That is low when compared to most locals bonuses. My wife was telling about a company that was so sought after by locals, even though the monthly pay was low 25-28k, but the CNY bonus was for 6 months salary. So even at 25k a month, with the bonus and pension, you are up to 40k. That is 40k for an entry level job. There are other little ways for locals to boost their income too, but as a foreigner, you don’t have those options.

I could probably go on forever about this, but I think I have made my point, and this discussion gets tired after several years.

This link is not the best, but it is what I could find on short notice, so take it with a garin of salt:

ezinearticles.com/?International … id=1031406

As you can see, Taiwan is not as cheap as many people want to sell. You may get away with uber-cheapness in some southern county, but Taipei can be quite expensive. Taiwan is listed as being more expensive than the UAE, Miami, and Las Vegas.

Foreign teachers pay rates are not bad, but I would be hard pressed to claim that they are well-paid. Sure, you can eat at a nice restaurant once week, and hit a night club now and again, but you aren’t driving that black BMW that your pig slaughterer of a neighbor is.

Furthermore, I fail to understand the point of these threads. If you think you are well paid, why do you need others to verify it?