I agree, and it’s sad so many of us who call ourselves free-thinking individuals are cheering on this process, with no more information available to them than the local media has [strike]pulled out of it’s collective ass[/strike] come up with.
Disclaimer - Dunno him.
That’s interesting. I know one chap thus shafted, but I’m pretty sure you don’t know him. He wasn’t part of the “Taibei posse.” 
More Tainan, and a loose extension to Shalu via Taichung. Accident on the way back from Hualien combined with a disastrous love interest.
HG
[quote=“Toasty”]How about a little disclosure in this thread. Who knows him and in what capacity? I think it would go a long way in explaining some peoples’ attempts to circle the wagons. People here must think I’m truly stupid to bite on all the red herrings and attempts to steer opinion in favor of their (obvious) friend. Posts in this thread have been deliberate attempts to muddy the waters and confuse the issue.
There is more than enough information and footage available for reasonable people to know what really happened. Those being deliberately obtuse have a vested interest in behaving this way. I’m shocked by the sheer lack of ethics.
And if-- as one mentioned-- we are so concerned about the “deceased” (as opposed to just sticking up for ex-housemates), let’s start a collection for his family.[/quote]
I don’t recall ever hearing of Mr. Dean until this thread. I don’t know anyone on Forumosa, and in real life I’ve only encountered one person who I know is a Forumosan, and that was just once and very briefly (if I recall rightly), and I’m not sure that person even knew/knows that I post on this board.
Except for my job, I’m practically a recluse.
If Mr.Dean didn’t drive it it must have been the valet. So it comes down to who was driving the car at the time. That would mean Mr.Dean would be out of it, the valet hit the scooter, drove off somewhere, then abandoned the car, Mr.Dean got his senses and drove home with only a foggy notion that somebody or something was hit. It seems unlikely but it could happen. That might be a scenario of the defense. Occams razor points to Mr.Dean being the driver, but the simplest scenario is not always the correct one. It is very much his word against mine case at the moment.
As other posters said, further video evidence could clear this up with proper forensic examination of the tapes to check time stamp.
Yup, except that the valet drove back to somewhere around the club. If Dean is innocent they will be checking security cameras in that area I would assume. Absolutely though he tried to dispose of a car that had been involved in “some” kind of accident and was therefore evidence.
[quote=“Charlie Jack”][quote=“Toasty”]How about a little disclosure in this thread. Who knows him and in what capacity? I think it would go a long way in explaining some peoples’ attempts to circle the wagons. People here must think I’m truly stupid to bite on all the red herrings and attempts to steer opinion in favor of their (obvious) friend. Posts in this thread have been deliberate attempts to muddy the waters and confuse the issue.
There is more than enough information and footage available for reasonable people to know what really happened. Those being deliberately obtuse have a vested interest in behaving this way. I’m shocked by the sheer lack of ethics.
And if-- as one mentioned-- we are so concerned about the “deceased” (as opposed to just sticking up for ex-housemates), let’s start a collection for his family.[/quote]
I don’t recall ever hearing of Mr. Dean until this thread. I don’t know anyone on Forumosa, and in real life I’ve only encountered one person who I know is a Forumosan, and that was just once and very briefly (if I recall rightly), and I’m not sure that person even knew/knows that I post on this board.
Except for my job, I’m practically a recluse.[/quote]
Ok I know this guy now and I though i didn’t. I recall him.
Why does it have to come down to only Dean or the valet? Maybe the valet really didn’t want to drive him home for some reason and called up a friend or his girlfriend or someone else to come do it. The 3rd person shows up, the valet goes back to the club, the accident happens, the 3rd person doesn’t stop and drives Dean home. Dean is passed out the whole time or doesn’t notice/remember either the driver switch or the accident. There’s nothing in the reported “facts” thus far that would make this scenario impossible. Not that I’m arguing that such a thing happened - the point is that if you can come with all sorts of different scenarios, the evidence is hardly conclusive.
Here’s an editorial opinion that ran in the China Post today regarding Taiwan’s drunk driving penalties. The writer makes a convincing argument for the strengthening of existing drunk driving laws.
[quote=“China Post Editorial on 4-27-2010”]
Penalties Are Too Lenient For Drunk Drivers Who Kill
Last Friday in the American state of Florida, 27 year-old Chad Mattson stood up and waited for a judge to pronounce his sentence. A few seconds later Mattson learned that he would be spending the next 15 years of his life behind bars. Chad Mattson’s crime? He got behind the wheel of a car after consuming alcohol and struck and killed Taylor Smith, a 15 year-old cyclist. Mattson’s sentence was more severe than most because he also fled the scene and hid in the woods for several hours before turning himself into the police. After Mattson eventually gets out of prison, he still has another 15 years of probation to serve, during which time he cannot touch alcohol or narcotics. He will also have to pay restitution, perform community service, shoulder court fees and pay fines. The judge also added a further requirement: For the rest of Mattson’s life on each anniversary of the September 28th accident, he must visit Taylor’s grave and spend half an hour there reflecting on what he did.
Last Tuesday Taipei prosecutors indicted UK national Zain Dean for a fatal hit-and-run drunk driving accident. Prosecutors allege that Dean left a nightspot in the wee hours of March 25th and while intoxicated, slammed into a motorcycle-riding newspaper delivery worker surnamed Huang who was killed after being thrown some 80 meters from the site of the collision. For his part, Dean claims he asked an employee of the nightspot to drive him home in his car and that he has no recollection of the incident. The authorities pointed out that the employee was recorded on video returning to his work station just a few minutes after being asked to drive Dean home, lending credibility to the employee’s claim that Dean asked him to exit the vehicle after a few moments and continued the drive alone. Prosecutors seem to have a reasonably airtight case against Dean. When the requested sentence was announced, however, many in Taiwan were shocked - two and a half years behind bars for a fatal drunken hit-and-run?
One knee-jerk reaction is to assume that because Dean holds a foreign passport the government is going easy on him - but this is not the case. Such low penalties for killing while under the influence are common place in Taiwan. Over the past five years, two celebrities made the news for killing motorcyclists while drunk. Neither of the offenders - singer Lin Shao-Pei and entertainer Hong Chi-Te served any real time behind bars. The fact that the two celebrities involved did not run from the scene may have helped them avoid jail time and both paid compensation, NT $8 million and NT $3 million respectively. But while paying compensation to a victim’s family is a good way of demonstrating remorse, it cannot be a deciding factor when one takes a life. A murderer who pays even hundreds of millions of dollars in compensation is not allowed to skip a lengthy prison term. Drunk drivers who kill should be viewed as a kind of murderer. It’s not a tragic “accident” when a drunk driver kills or maims; it’s essentially a premeditated crime. Drivers know the law. No driver is forced to consume alcohol – it’s a choice and all choices have consequences.
It seems clear that Taiwan’s judicial system must increase the maximum penalties for causing death or serious injury while driving drunk. Taiwan doesn’t necessarily have to follow the lead of the United States in all things, but a move towards U.S. law with regard to drunk driving might be a good move to consider. California - now being followed by a number of other U.S. states - charges some drunk drivers who take a life with second-degree murder punishable by a very long sentence. In the UK, the maximum term for such an offense is 14 years. Killing someone, even in a drunk driving “accident,” should generally end with the killer spending a reasonably long term locked up away from society.
Harsh punishments for drunk drivers are necessary to convince the public that the government takes the issue seriously. To their credit, Taiwan’s lawmakers recently strengthened laws on drunk driving. Fines have been substantially increased and police spot checks are now set up more regularly. But local laws need to change if two and half years in prison or a couple million NT are the only penalties for needlessly terminating a human life. The public’s outrage at this short sentence request can and should be channeled into a push to modify existing laws so that no one - rich or poor, powerfully connected or not – can evade serving a significant jail term for causing serious injury or death while driving under the influence.[/quote]
I met Mr Dean once, just after the accident, when he donated the tools he promised the SPCA several weeks prior.
To be honest, from how the media portrayed everything, I at first believed that it may indeed have been possible that Mr Dean was driving at the time of the accident, though I chose to wait and hear from the man himself, for the reasons I stated earlier.
As fate would have it, Mr Dean sent me a lengthy statement giving his version of events, and what I have read leads me to believe that Mr Dean is not getting a fair hearing. His side of the story is very credible.
If the majority of those in other countries who get taken to court are guilty, and that is why Toasty is condemning Mr Dean, then I would have to remind him of the minority who were innocent (and just as much as there are guilty found innocent, there are innocent found guilty, so we don’t need to raise that point). This is why we have court hearings, so that people who watch too much telly don’t get to hang everyone portrayed wearing a black hat.
Mr Dean was giving everything away prior to his planned return to his home country. He was very drunk on the evening in question. He was driven home. Somewhere along the way, the valet got out. The question is Where? As the Chief pointed out, time stamps are easily changed on a digital video, and people in certain businesses in certain areas should not have their word taken as gospel. Mr Dean left the car in full public view after the accident; that tells me there was no attempt to cover up a serious crime.
There should easily be CCTV (other than the club’s) showing the valet getting out of Mr Dean’s car or at least walking back. Where is it? When I see that, I will make my mind up. For now, I say let the man have a fair hearing before you condemn him. If you ever find yourself on the receiving end of such an ignorant condemnation, you’ll know just horrific that feels. His version of events is just as credible as the club’s; the problem is that it has just as little proof.
I’ve known Zain for over 10 years now, on a business level and as a friend. I had a chance to meet up with him last week and chatted a bit about his case. I also have received and read his 17 page statement about the night in question and the things that have transpired in the days that followed. As Stray Dog and Maoman have both previously stated, there is a lot of interesting details in it which leave a lot of questions unanswered about what exactly took place, especially considering what the media has tried to push everyone towards thinking. It’s been tough to read some of the commentary here in this thread, which has gone on way too long, from a lot of posters who have already decided who was at fault in this accident. Thankfully it’s the courts and not them that decide the fates of those involved.
What I don’t get is why he didn’t tell the truth about what happened as soon as possible. If what he told was the truth it would tend to be corroborated by the available evidence, no?
Not a sarcastic or cynical question at all. I really don’t get that.
At this point I’m betting that Dean was drunk and unconscious, the valet hit the delivery man, drove back to the nightclub and left Dean to wake up later and drive himself home. The mistake Dean made was trying to destroy the evidence of a crime. I don’t think there is “any” question about that last bit.
What was the truth he should have told and when? (In return, not being cynical; I’m genuinely interested, as I’m not sure what you mean.)
Covering up a fender bender perhaps? And, if so, whose? Or covering up his own fatal crash? The fact that the car was left in the open and eventually sold to another garage rather than be scrapped tells me it likely wasn’t the latter.
Mr Dean is now looking to get his version of events published, so we may all soon be privy to the details behind his side of the story.
[quote=“bob”]What I don’t get is why he didn’t tell the truth about what happened as soon as possible. If what he told was the truth it would tend to be corroborated by the available evidence, no?
Not a sarcastic or cynical question at all. I really don’t get that.
[/quote]
Assuming for the sake of argument that he wasn’t driving, he could have been afraid of getting railroaded for something he didn’t do.
I never met him. I don’t think anyone is saying they’re sure he didn’t do it Toasty, at least I’m not. I wouldn’t hang him though. If I knew exactly what the evidence that the valet returned to the club in 6 minutes was, I’d be more confident in making an assertion one way or the other.
Just the truth to best of his recollection.
There was this, from page two…
Maybe that was it, I dunno, but it isn’t a very detailed account. If he doesn’t remember the accident, how can he be absolutely sure he didn’t cause it? People do things when they are blacked out. And if he does remember it, what explanation does he give for not stopping, and for trying to destroy the evidence? How did he get the car home?
Sorry, but I don’t think we have heard the truth quite yet. However this turns out you can be sure this will end up being a cautioanry tale to us all on the dangers of alcohol abuse, as if we needed another one.
If it were me, personally like? I’d be like simply removing the plates, convoying my willing moll in her car way up in the hills, torching the mofo and pushing it off a hill and cruising back home in her jalopy. That’s what I’d be doing if I was wanting to cover up a crime.
You people have NO FUCKING CLUE what transpired. Nor do I. And I sure don’t expect to find out the truth through the Taiwanese media or judiciary. You people would be ashamed if you weren’t so busy sharpening your pitchforks and lighting your fiery brands.
[quote]You people would be ashamed if you weren’t so busy sharpening your pitchforks and lighting your fiery brands.
[/quote]
Schadenfreude. It’s a piss poor substitute for the life they’re not having.
HG
I as well have been a relatively close personal and business friend with Mr. Dean for some time, and have also received the lengthy and detailed account of his experiences through this terrible ordeal.
I can say with complete certainty that I have no difficulty whatsoever believing his version of the events as they unfolded that night and subsequently.
Shame on you who have so eagerly jumped to the attack in this case, with the zeal of a lynch mob.
[quote=“sandman”]If it were me, personally like? I’d be like simply removing the plates, convoying my willing moll in her car way up in the hills, torching the mofo and pushing it off a hill and cruising back home in her jalopy. That’s what I’d be doing if I was wanting to cover up a crime.
You people have NO FUCKING CLUE what transpired. Nor do I. And I sure don’t expect to find out the truth through the Taiwanese media or judiciary. You people would be ashamed if you weren’t so busy sharpening your pitchforks and lighting your fiery brands.
Pricks.[/quote]
Sandman, it’s a pity you didn’t feel such restraint with the thread about the preacher who shot the cats. Here’s what you wrote.
FYI, I’ve never met anyone involved in this case.
When the chief says it’s easy to change the timecode on a digital surveillance file, I believe him. However, I don’t think people changing the timecode would be so clever as to splice in enough time for the sunrise / dawn to match the tape.
And I don’t think we need to bring in Henry Lee to solve this one.
Please correct me if I am way off on any of these times.
Let’s say the tape shows them leaving the club at, say 4:54, and it shows the club valet coming back to the club at 5:00 according to the time stamps on the tape.
Now, according to CWB, sunrise on March 27th was at 5:51. So, if a forensic scientist (or even a brainy police investigator) watches the tape for 20 some minutes beyond the club valet’s return, do they notice things lightening up with the dawn (about 25-30 minutes before sunrise)? I’m assuming these tapes are good enough to tell more than night from day. If that club valet spent more than 6 minutes away from the club, there wouldn’t be enough “night time” after his return on the tape.
Heck, if they’ve got the tape for the whole day, they could find some shadow of a pole or side of a building from later in the day and use that as a sun dial to determine if the tape is accurate timewise.
[quote=“almas john”]Sandman, it’s a pity you didn’t feel such restraint with the thread about the preacher who shot the cats. Here’s what you wrote.
Which bit about IF THAT"S WHAT HE DID are you having difficulty with, oh wannabe marsupial lover?
HG